Oden and Batum for Kyrie Irving? would you do it?

[Ghost Pepper]

Duke players are great in college but only one has ever made it long term in the pros. Grant Hill!

As for Duke PG's that have gone pro? Think Hurley and Jason Williams both huge off the court injuries...

Does Portland really need anymore bad mojo with #1 prospects?

For the reasons I say HELL NO!

 

[RR7]

Duke players are great in college but only one has ever made it long term in the pros. Grant Hill!

Elton brand. Carlos Boozer. Shane Battier. Luol Deng. Corey Maggette.

 

[Ed O]

I wouldn't do it. First of all because I'm not convinced Irving will be a Paul/Rose-level prospect.

Secondly because Oden and Batum each have a LOT of upside... and the odds of both of them being "misses" is quite low. I'll take my chances that they're both "hits" as Blazers than with Irving.

Ed O.

 

[magnifier661]

Elton brand. Carlos Boozer. Shane Battier. Luol Deng. Corey Maggette.

All complete trash!!!!!

 

[Rhal]

Getting Irving won't make us better in the next 2 years then a healthy Oden would. Throw Batum in there and we lose a lot for a young PG who is gonna need a year or two to really be anything when were a team that is in win now mode. We have to much big money on our team to try and add rookies that will cost us wins to add (by trading away proven talent for them). Were a middling NBA team, worst position to be in, you either blow your team up and try and rebuild or you trade for veterans not rookies to try and improve.

 

[Minstrel]

Kyrie Irving scares me in the way that Evan Turner did...a smooth player with some well-rounded skills who does nothing brilliantly. I think a player's "bust chance" goes up significantly when there's nothing that they truly dominate at. Whether that's scoring, rebounding, passing, defense or even amazing athleticism...a blue-chip prospect who doesn't have any aspect of the game that will clearly separate them at the NBA level is not a prospect I want to bet a lot on. Rose had elite quickness and potentially dominant scoring (which has, pardon the pun, bloomed). Irving, however, doesn't flash truly dominant scoring skills, passing skills nor does he have out-of-this-world athleticism. He's crafty quick, he's got the ability to do everything at least well at the college level, but no calling card.

That doesn't mean he's a sure bust. I'm not saying that at all. He might still be a star. Brandon Roy is an example of a player who didn't seem to have any dominant aspect, but still flourished at the NBA level. I just think those types of prospects are riskier.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Kyrie Irving scares me in the way that Evan Turner did...a smooth player with some well-rounded skills who does nothing brilliantly. I think a player's "bust chance" goes up significantly when there's nothing that they truly dominate at. Whether that's scoring, rebounding, passing, defense or even amazing athleticism...a blue-chip prospect who doesn't have any aspect of the game that will clearly separate them at the NBA level is not a prospect I want to bet a lot on. Rose had elite quickness and potentially dominant scoring (which has, pardon the pun, bloomed). Irving, however, doesn't flash truly dominant scoring skills, passing skills nor does he have out-of-this-world athleticism. He's crafty quick, he's got the ability to do everything at least well at the college level, but no calling card.

That doesn't mean he's a sure bust. I'm not saying that at all. He might still be a star. Brandon Roy is an example of a player who didn't seem to have any dominant aspect, but still flourished at the NBA level. I just think those types of prospects are riskier.

You just described Mike Conley, Jr. to a T.

 

[RR7]

Kyrie Irving scares me in the way that Evan Turner did...a smooth player with some well-rounded skills who does nothing brilliantly. I think a player's "bust chance" goes up significantly when there's nothing that they truly dominate at. Whether that's scoring, rebounding, passing, defense or even amazing athleticism...a blue-chip prospect who doesn't have any aspect of the game that will clearly separate them at the NBA level is not a prospect I want to bet a lot on. Rose had elite quickness and potentially dominant scoring (which has, pardon the pun, bloomed). Irving, however, doesn't flash truly dominant scoring skills, passing skills nor does he have out-of-this-world athleticism. He's crafty quick, he's got the ability to do everything at least well at the college level, but no calling card.

That doesn't mean he's a sure bust. I'm not saying that at all. He might still be a star. Brandon Roy is an example of a player who didn't seem to have any dominant aspect, but still flourished at the NBA level. I just think those types of prospects are riskier.

It's really tough to judge, since we're going off of a small sample size with Irving, but he was a better scorer in college than Rose was. I don't see how Rose had potentially dominant scoring, and Irving doesn't? Irving scored more on less FG attempts per game, showing a great ability to get to the line(6.5 times a game, in only 27.5 min.). I think it's easy to say Rose showed that dominant ability because you know what he became. Irving was just as good and better a scorer in HS. Better in the short stint in college. Two out of the 11 games he played in, he had a higher point total than Rose's college career high. I dunno, to me that sounds like judging a guy off of his MVP season, and saying there were flashes of dominant scoring, and not judging it off of a guy averaging 14PPG in college.

 

[Minstrel]

It's really tough to judge, since we're going off of a small sample size with Irving, but he was a better scorer in college than Rose was. I don't see how Rose had potentially dominant scoring, and Irving doesn't? Irving scored more on less FG attempts per game, showing a great ability to get to the line(6.5 times a game, in only 27.5 min.). I think it's easy to say Rose showed that dominant ability because you know what he became. Irving was just as good and better a scorer in HS. Better in the short stint in college. Two out of the 11 games he played in, he had a higher point total than Rose's college career high. I dunno, to me that sounds like judging a guy off of his MVP season, and saying there were flashes of dominant scoring, and not judging it off of a guy averaging 14PPG in college.

It's really not an issue of stats, as college stats are pretty poor indicators of NBA success (other than rebounding, apparently). Rose looked more explosive and more projectible to me, though I hardly claim a scouting pedigree....my recollection of scouting reports at the time jibe with that, though. But it certainly is possible that my view is coloured by knowledge of where Rose has gone.

 

[STOMP]

You just described Mike Conley, Jr. to a T.

not really. Conley has outstanding speed/explosiveness and below average size. The concern expressed about Irving is that he's potentially a strait B student

STOMP

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Boozer, Deng, Brand, Maggette,Battier..... All solid role players at best, not one of them do you build a team around. To give up a once in a decade center and a 22 year old version of T Prince for a Duke player that played about as many games as Oden in his first year is not only a risk but a dare to see if we can go 3-3 in all time big draft busts!

No way!

 

[B-Roy]

Boozer, Deng, Brand, Maggette,Battier..... All solid role players at best, not one of them do you build a team around. To give up a once in a decade center and a 22 year old version of T Prince for a Duke player that played about as many games as Oden in his first year is not only a risk but a dare to see if we can go 3-3 in all time big draft busts!

No way!

Boozer and Brand in their primes are/were at least good 2nd fiddles.

Besides that, I still think the "Duke player" argument is a silly way to argue against a player...

 

[Rhal]

Boozer and Brand in their primes are/were at least good 2nd fiddles.

Besides that, I still think the "Duke player" argument is a silly way to argue against a player...

Brand averaged 20/10 up tell two years ago when he went down with a knee injury. Brand was a legit #1 option.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Okay....


Let's throw out he's a Duke player for a minute and go to fact. He's been injured for half his freshman year and has to wear a corrective insert already for life.

Is that not enough bad mojo for most of you to say next? Especially after Oden and Roy?

 

[MickZagger]

I would make that trade in a second. Irving will be the next Paul, Deron Williams type PG. He's a baller.

 

[MickZagger]

This thread will be bump worthy in a couple years.

 

[oldmangrouch]

This thread will be bump worthy in a couple years.

Ain't that the truth. I wish I had bookmarked some of the threads where people said they wouldn't trade Oden for Howard!

 

[PapaG]

Why would a team with a #1 or #2 pick trade a potential franchise PG for an oft-injured and unsigned center, and a solid role player who has struggled in the playoffs?

I think it would take LMA in an offer for Irving, and not Oden, and only for a team with a PG. Of the lottery teams, who may want to do a deal for LMA if they luck into the #1 or #2 pick?

Minnesota - spent three #1 picks on PGs two years ago, hold right to Rubio. If they go PG, they would probably want Irving and trade the rights to Rubio, who has been terrible this year in Spain.

Cleveland - would pick Irving over trade.

Toronto - have Bargnani, and Calderon and Bayless are adequate. Maybe...

Washington - a definite possiblity, and need help in the front-court.

Sacramento - would pick Irving, IMO

Utah - would pick Irving, IMO, and look to trade Devin Harris. Perhaps a LMA/Miller for Favors/Harris/filler would be attractive to the Jazz if they luck out in the lottery.

Detroit - would pick Irving, IMO

Charlotte - would pick Irving, IMO

Milwaukee - potential trade partner if LMA is included.

Golden State - potential trade partner, would love LMA. Maybe the best chance to get Irving, but odds are low they will pick high.

Phoenix - would pick Irving, IMO, and perhaps look to deal Nash to a contender in order to rebuild.

Houston - would pick Irving, IMO, and perhaps look to deal Lowry.

I think the odds are very, very low that Portland could trade up to a place high enough to draft Irving, and I think it would have to be a package where LMA is dealt, and the Blazers take on a contract in exchange.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Good lineup, but I'd disagree at Utah and GSW, and maybe PHX.

Utah and PHX are places where I could see Derrick Williams going to instead of Irving. As many have said, while I think he's probably the safest #1 pick in this draft, I don't think people see him as a Rose (or even Wall-) level of superstar PG. PHX can either extend Nash's service life a couple of years, or trade him later. I think that UTH would keep Harris and try to get talent to fill out other areas. GSW might keep Irving (more of a pure point and better with Ellis) and trade Curry and stuff for LMA. Not that I personally would do that, but I think that's a closer plan the trading Irving for LMA.

 

[PapaG]

Good lineup, but I'd disagree at Utah and GSW, and maybe PHX.

Utah and PHX are places where I could see Derrick Williams going to instead of Irving. As many have said, while I think he's probably the safest #1 pick in this draft, I don't think people see him as a Rose (or even Wall-) level of superstar PG. PHX can either extend Nash's service life a couple of years, or trade him later. I think that UTH would keep Harris and try to get talent to fill out other areas. GSW might keep Irving (more of a pure point and better with Ellis) and trade Curry and stuff for LMA. Not that I personally would do that, but I think that's a closer plan the trading Irving for LMA.

Yeah, those are good points, Brian. Plus, I was operating under the assumption that it would take a top 2 pick for Irving, and you're probably right about Derrick Williams for Utah, or any team that lands at #1. If Utah gets #2, though, then a deal for Irving may be a possibility. Might have to take on either Millsap or Al Jefferson, though, and if it were Millsap involved in a deal for LMA, that would be fitting, wouldn't it?

The target should be the #2 pick, and the odds of finding a willing trade partner for what the Blazers have to offer seems almost nil.

 

[Blazinaway]

Ain't that the truth. I wish I had bookmarked some of the threads where people said they wouldn't trade Oden for Howard!

Me too. I remember how I often posted I wanted to trade for Mike Conley when he was in the doghouse in Memphis and perhaps could have been had for Outlaw or something similar, so many said NO, oh well another ship has sailed

 

[Blazinaway]

Why would a team with a #1 or #2 pick trade a potential franchise PG for an oft-injured and unsigned center, and a solid role player who has struggled in the playoffs?

I think it would take LMA in an offer for Irving, and not Oden, and only for a team with a PG. Of the lottery teams, who may want to do a deal for LMA if they luck into the #1 or #2 pick?

Minnesota - spent three #1 picks on PGs two years ago, hold right to Rubio. If they go PG, they would probably want Irving and trade the rights to Rubio, who has been terrible this year in Spain.

Cleveland - would pick Irving over trade.

Toronto - have Bargnani, and Calderon and Bayless are adequate. Maybe...

Washington - a definite possiblity, and need help in the front-court.

Sacramento - would pick Irving, IMO

Utah - would pick Irving, IMO, and look to trade Devin Harris. Perhaps a LMA/Miller for Favors/Harris/filler would be attractive to the Jazz if they luck out in the lottery.

Detroit - would pick Irving, IMO

Charlotte - would pick Irving, IMO

Milwaukee - potential trade partner if LMA is included.

Golden State - potential trade partner, would love LMA. Maybe the best chance to get Irving, but odds are low they will pick high.

Phoenix - would pick Irving, IMO, and perhaps look to deal Nash to a contender in order to rebuild.

Houston - would pick Irving, IMO, and perhaps look to deal Lowry.

I think the odds are very, very low that Portland could trade up to a place high enough to draft Irving, and I think it would have to be a package where LMA is dealt, and the Blazers take on a contract in exchange.

Why? one word answer is K A H N !! add to that Rubio is rumored to be signed soon and it might not be that far out a fantasy