Oden or Batum?

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Who would you rather keep out of the two?

  • Total voters
    71
here is how I look at it.. we probably will have to beat the Heat to get to a Title. With Oden (if he meets his potential) we have someone who could beat their positional player. With Batum, although I have a pretty big man crush on him, he still would never be able to match Lebron at his position. With a possible lineup of CP3, Roy, (Matthews?), LMA, and Oden... you can look at being superior to them at 2 positions (PG and C) And Roy can at least play close to Wade (production wise) With hopefully LMA playing 80% of Bosh's 100%... with Batum they are still better than us at the SF spot, but our Advantage at the PG spot would be much much less.
 
Just the fact that this question is even being asked is absolutely crazy in my book. Batum has clearly taken on the roll of most over rated Blazer.
 
The game is changing, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win a championship ... certainly a capable rebounder/defender, but not necessarily guys in the mold of Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, etc. The rules have moved big men out to the perimeter and guards and wings can barely be breathed on or they draw a foul.

With that as the foundation of my choice, I'd give the nod to Batum ... but just barely.
 
oldmangrouch said:
BTW, here is a question for you to ponder.

If Batum had been a top 5 pick, and Oden had been selected in the 20s, would we even be having this debate? If Batum had been highly hyped, and Oden had been just another rookie, would anyone still question that Batum was the more valuable player?
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Who cares about the hype and what position they were picked. The fact is that when Oden is playing, he has the ability to dominate the game at both ends. Adding Batum back to our roster helped, but didn't drastically change our team. Adding a healthy Oden to the roster transforms our team. It isn't close.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The game is changing, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win a championship ... certainly a capable rebounder/defender, but not necessarily guys in the mold of Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, etc. The rules have moved big men out to the perimeter and guards and wings can barely be breathed on or they draw a foul.

With that as the foundation of my choice, I'd give the nod to Batum ... but just barely.
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Ah, nicely done Nik an actually VALID argument against keeping Oden. I still don't agree given what me eyeballs told me when Oden was in games last year, that said at least your argument was very solid. Repped.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The game is changing, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win a championship ... certainly a capable rebounder/defender, but not necessarily guys in the mold of Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, etc. The rules have moved big men out to the perimeter and guards and wings can barely be breathed on or they draw a foul.
Click to expand...

I don't think you have anything to base this on. It may just seem like the game has changed because there are no guys like Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Ewing, Shaq, etc in the league right now. There is no evidence that a team with a guy like that wouldn't be better than the current teams winning the championship.
 
blazerboy30 said:
I don't think you have anything to base this on. It may just seem like the game has changed because there are no guys like Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Ewing, Shaq, etc in the league right now. There is no evidence that a team with a guy like that wouldn't be better than the current teams winning the championship.
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No hand checking on the wing, no more holding your position on defense, restricted circle under the hoop, defensive 3 seconds, no more real physical play under the hoop ... the list goes on. Just look at how badly Dwight "DPOY" Howard was handcuffed by the refs in the playoffs.

The game has changed and it's not just because there aren't as many talented/dominant bigs (though that part is also true).
 
:lol: Wow - a lot of Batum haters here! (if anyone who dares to question Oden is a "hater", then so are the Batum doubters - fair is fair)

I'm sure we will be revisiting this subject next summer, and every year thereafter until one guy or the other becomes an ex-Blazer....and probably beyond. Heck, it was just a few months ago that some posters here were still swearing that Webster was a more valuable player than Batum.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The game is changing, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win a championship ... certainly a capable rebounder/defender, but not necessarily guys in the mold of Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, etc. The rules have moved big men out to the perimeter and guards and wings can barely be breathed on or they draw a foul.

With that as the foundation of my choice, I'd give the nod to Batum ... but just barely.
Click to expand...
I agree with this post as a general point.

However, looking at it from a purely talent standpoint, Oden has Batum beat....by a pretty significant margin, and that I can't ignore.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The game is changing, I don't think you need a dominant post player to win a championship ... certainly a capable rebounder/defender, but not necessarily guys in the mold of Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Walton, etc. The rules have moved big men out to the perimeter and guards and wings can barely be breathed on or they draw a foul.

With that as the foundation of my choice, I'd give the nod to Batum ... but just barely.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point but not your conclusion.

In fact, I would generalize it further: you don't need a dominant player at any single position to win titles. The Bulls won plenty of titles without any dominant big men (unless you view Rodman as one). Many people have noted the lack of dominant point guards winning titles since Magic Johnson. The Lakers had no dominant small forward when they won titles this past decade.

What you need to win titles, though, are dominant players. The positions don't matter. And that's the reason I disagree with your conclusion of Batum being more valuable. Even though I predict big things for Batum, I don't see him ever being the kind of dominant player who can drive a team to championships. Become a tremendous player on a title team? Sure. But unless he actually becomes Pippen, he won't be a main driver of championship success.

Oden, however, can be. His play when healthy has been consistent with a player who will be dominant in his prime. Batum may be the smaller risk due to health (though even that is somewhat debatable, unfortunately). But risk management is really not what wins titles. You need big, dominant seasons from players to win titles and Oden has a much higher chance of producing those, as far as I'm concerned. If the goal is to win one or more titles, I think Oden is clearly the most valuable.
 
blazerboy30 said:
Who cares about the hype and what position they were picked. The fact is that when Oden is playing, he has the ability to dominate the game at both ends. Adding Batum back to our roster helped, but didn't drastically change our team. Adding a healthy Oden to the roster transforms our team. It isn't close.
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Agree completely. Just have to watch Oden play when he's healthy and can tell he's the player to keep. I choose Oden big time!
 
Minstrel said:
I agree with your point but not your conclusion.

In fact, I would generalize it further: you don't need a dominant player at any single position to win titles. The Bulls won plenty of titles without any dominant big men (unless you view Rodman as one). Many people have noted the lack of dominant point guards winning titles since Magic Johnson. The Lakers had no dominant small forward when they won titles this past decade.

What you need to win titles, though, are dominant players. The positions don't matter. And that's the reason I disagree with your conclusion of Batum being more valuable. Even though I predict big things for Batum, I don't see him ever being the kind of dominant player who can drive a team to championships. Become a tremendous player on a title team? Sure. But unless he actually becomes Pippen, he won't be a main driver of championship success.

Oden, however, can be. His play when healthy has been consistent with a player who will be dominant in his prime. Batum may be the smaller risk due to health (though even that is somewhat debatable, unfortunately). But risk management is really not what wins titles. You need big, dominant seasons from players to win titles and Oden has a much higher chance of producing those, as far as I'm concerned. If the goal is to win one or more titles, I think Oden is clearly the most valuable.
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Excellent points repped!
 
This is interesting to look back on. Looks like the Blazers made the right choice here.
 
You really think we wouldn't have someone more reliable at SF by now?
 
julius said:
what are you talking about, the bumpee bumped a brilliant and timely thread.

.

.

.
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True. I guess I should look back and bump a Mark Bryant or Ramon Ramos thread. We made the right choice there too
 
Mediocre Man said:
True. I guess I should look back and bump a Mark Bryant or Ramon Ramos thread. We made the right choice there too
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I wish we could rep more frequently.
 
Actually, this thread is an excellent reminder. Ignore the hype and trust your eyes.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Actually, this thread is an excellent reminder. Ignore the hype and trust your eyes.
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This thread was before we knew Oden became a walking....limping knee injury. Oden at even close to his healthy play is light years better than Batum for any team.
 
BigGameDamian said:
I agree, I also think there should be a number system (1-10) on how many rep points you can give.
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I think we should do that, BUT also do negative rep.

I'd personally strive for the lowest rep points allowed.
 
Mediocre Man said:
This thread was before we knew Oden became a walking....limping knee injury. Oden at even close to his healthy play is light years better than Batum for any team.
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Untrue. Some of us were suggesting that Oden was injury prone long before 2010.
 
PapaG said:
Untrue. Some of us were suggesting that Oden was injury prone long before 2010.
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Some people also suggest Leonard isnt a complete waste of a lottery pick too. Doesnt make it true.
 
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