Oden vs. Durant

[magnifier661]

Seriously how can you compare the two? One is a defensive specialist and rebounder, the other is a freak of nature scoring machine. Regardless, both are and will be amazing players. Personally I think we made the right choice, because DEFENSE wins championships, not scoring titles.

Also, Keep in mind that in the past 2 decades the championship teams were usually top 4 in most the major defensive categories. I take D over O anyday, especially knowing we already have plenty of scorers.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

It is really hard for me to say I think we made the right choice, but I do it anyways.

 

[magnifier661]

It is really hard for me to say I think we made the right choice, but I do it anyways.

Well currently, it's obvious Durant has been doing amazingly. But I think in the long run, we will be much better off with the Beast Down Low. I mean just his presence this season has altered more shots than I ever remembered a Blazer single handedly done.

 

[mgb]

Seriously how can you compare the two? One is a defensive specialist and rebounder, the other is a freak of nature scoring machine. Regardless, both are and will be amazing players. Personally I think we made the right choice, because DEFENSE wins championships, not scoring titles.

Also, Keep in mind that in the past 2 decades the championship teams were usually top 4 in most the major defensive categories. I take D over O anyday, especially knowing we already have plenty of scorers.

I'd compare them by how they help their team.

 

[magnifier661]

I'd compare them by how they help their team.

Exactly... For example. T-Mac is a scoring machine, but has never lead his team past the first round of the play-offs. Ben Wallace couldn't shoot a basket if his life depended on him, but his defensive anchor and energy made a huge impact on the success of the ball club. Now keep in mind that Ben Wallace is about 4 inches shorter and has less talent than Oden.

I think Oden will win us more games than Durant will 10 fold. Why? Well we don't need scoring. We need a defensive identity. I am starting to realize this more and more. I even think Oden has accepted this and slowly but surely we will be handing teams their ass.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I like Greg, I'm happy he's starting to show that he can be something of a difference maker on the court, but let's get real here. Durant is probably going to win the MVP a couple of times before it's all said and done.

Be honest, if OKC had Greg and they were the ones enduring all of the false starts and setbacks he's gone through his first two years. People here would be crowing about the fact that we've got three unstoppable scoring options and Clay Bennett was being punished for moving the Sonics.

 

[magnifier661]

I like Greg, I'm happy he's starting to show that he can be something of a difference maker on the court, but let's get real here. Durant is probably going to win the MVP a couple of times before it's all said and done.

Be honest, if OKC had Greg and they were the ones enduring all of the false starts and setbacks he's gone through his first two years. People here would be crowing about the fact that we've got three unstoppable scoring options and Clay Bennett was being punished for moving the Sonics.

Well honestly, I have some doubt in that. Remember that Dominique Wilkens was a phenom scorer. He was supposed to be the best PF to ever play the game. Look where it got him? Also keep in mind that other players like Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan and many others that are defensive playmakers are champions, while superstud scorers like T-mac, Carter and countless others couldn't even lead their respected teams past the second round.

I hold my opinion until we see a full season with a fully healthy Oden. I think those "set-backs" are behind us now (crossing fingers) and we can truly see the value of a defensive leader on the floor.

 

[Loyalty4Life]

Oden is what we need. Durant isn't going to be the next MJ. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well honestly, I have some doubt in that. Remember that Dominique Wilkens was a phenom scorer. He was supposed to be the best PF to ever play the game. Look where it got him? Also keep in mind that other players like Ben Wallace, Tim Duncan and many others that are defensive playmakers are champions, while superstud scorers like T-mac, Carter and countless others couldn't even lead their respected teams past the second round.

I hold my opinion until we see a full season with a fully healthy Oden. I think those "set-backs" are behind us now (crossing fingers) and we can truly see the value of a defensive leader on the floor.

I somehow suspect Durant is going to become a pretty damn good defender in time ... he seems to have that weird combo of extreme physical gifts and obsessive work ethic that molds great scorers into all-around talents. Time as always will tell.

Secondly, Tim Duncan is/was an elite two way player able to dominate the glass, the paint and the ability to score on anyone from the low block. Ben Wallace was part of something of an anomaly in the NBA -- the no superstars, five really good players phenomena -- that netted the Pistons exactly one championship before it kind of fell apart and they weren't a championship contender until they added Sheed.

In any case, my only point wasn't that Oden is somehow a terrible player, but I'm constantly amazed that Blazers fans think Oden vs. Durant is still a debate from an individual talent standpoint ... and I'd argue that a team consisting of Roy, Durant, LMA (and Pryz anchoring the middle) is quite a bit more potent the the current team we field ... at least for now.

 

[magnifier661]

I somehow suspect Durant is going to become a pretty damn good defender in time ... he seems to have that weird combo of extreme physical gifts and obsessive work ethic that molds great scorers into all-around talents. Time as always will tell.

Secondly, Tim Duncan is/was an elite two way player able to dominate the glass, the paint and the ability to score on anyone from the low block. Ben Wallace was part of something of an anomaly in the NBA -- the no superstars, five really good players phenomena -- that netted the Pistons exactly one championship before it kind of fell apart and they weren't a championship contender until they added Sheed.

In any case, my only point wasn't that Oden is somehow a terrible player, but I'm constantly amazed that Blazers fans think Oden vs. Durant is still a debate from an individual talent standpoint ... and I'd argue that a team consisting of Roy, Durant, LMA (and Pryz anchoring the middle) is quite a bit more potent the the current team we field ... at least for now.

Okay I concede with your new post. As individual performance goes, I think Durant is a better player. I still would be suspect on Durant co-existing with Roy and LMA, especially seeing the problems they already have with Nate trying to give Oden the ball more offensively. It was like "Hey man?!?!?! Where's my shots?" May not be true at all, but I think eventually this could pan out to be the much better bet.

 

[Minstrel]

In any case, my only point wasn't that Oden is somehow a terrible player, but I'm constantly amazed that Blazers fans think Oden vs. Durant is still a debate from an individual talent standpoint

Do you mean better player right now, or best "talent" (which, to me, implies the player who will be better in their prime/peak)?

I think Durant might be the better player right now (though the massive difference on defense might be just as great as the difference on offense). Scoring is important, but tends to get overstated a bit, while defense and rebounding (cliches about "what wins championships" aside) tend to get short shrift in actual evaluations.

I think the two are much closer right now than most would think looking at the "slash stats" (PPG/RPG/APG). If Oden ever develops a consistently good scoring game, he'll be far and away more valuable.

I felt Oden was the right decision at the time and I continue to think so. I don't think I'm generally a homer for the Blazers or their players, but bias may be a factor. Defense can be quite subjective. I should note, though, that I've never felt negatively toward Durant and I have always thought he was a truly elite talent and should be a top player in the league. I feel no need to tear Durant down, but I sincerely feel that the Blazers got the better player...the only problem is minutes per game (which should be counted). If Oden played the minutes Durant did, I think he'd be at least as valuable. As it is, I think they're close in impact on the floor but Durant is more valuable due to the greater number of minutes.

 

[KingSpeed]

not scoring titles.
.

Scoring titles won championships in 91,92,93,96,97, & 98

 

[magnifier661]

Scoring titles won championships in 91,92,93,96,97, & 98

You are also forgetting the player that did it. Are you saying Durant is the next Jordan? I don't believe that for a minute. And remember that "Bulls Dynasty had 6 players that were all NBA defense, which holds true to the defense is the main ingredient for championships.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Do you mean better player right now, or best "talent" (which, to me, implies the player who will be better in their prime/peak)?

I think Durant might be the better player right now (though the massive difference on defense might be just as great as the difference on offense). Scoring is important, but tends to get overstated a bit, while defense and rebounding (cliches about "what wins championships" aside) tend to get short shrift in actual evaluations.

I think the two are much closer right now than most would think looking at the "slash stats" (PPG/RPG/APG). If Oden ever develops a consistently good scoring game, he'll be far and away more valuable.

I felt Oden was the right decision at the time and I continue to think so. I don't think I'm generally a homer for the Blazers or their players, but bias may be a factor. Defense can be quite subjective. I should note, though, that I've never felt negatively toward Durant and I have always thought he was a truly elite talent and should be a top player in the league. I feel no need to tear Durant down, but I sincerely feel that the Blazers got the better player...the only problem is minutes per game (which should be counted). If Oden played the minutes Durant did, I think he'd be at least as valuable. As it is, I think they're close in impact on the floor but Durant is more valuable due to the greater number of minutes.

I don't think my comments were really aimed at you (and people of a similar mind) I'm directing them more toward the crowd who seemingly need to slag Durant or downplay him as some means of propping Oden up -- frankly I think Oden was a fine choice between the two players and given enough time and enough work might eventually become an impact player at both ends of the court, but I get tired of reading what seems like people talking themselves into the choice. It's almost like people really are worried about some kind of Sam Bowie vs. Jordan scenario repeating itself when in reality it's probably more like choosing between (potential) Jordan and (potential) Ben Wallace with more height -- and maybe eventually more offensive game.

 

[MIXUM]

if the draft is today, most of you know that you would take durant. we screwed up. its that simple.

 

[Nikolokolus]

if the draft is today, most of you know that you would take durant. we screwed up. its that simple.

Yes it probably would be Durant, but I don't think it's a screwup. Greg definitely is a difference maker on defense and he's still young enough and has enough room for growth to probably be an all-star caliber player in a couple more years.

 

[BengalDuck]

Scoring leaders (plain, ordinary PPG) have been champions in... (since the merger...)

1999-2000 (Shaq)
1995/1996 - 1997/1998 (Jordan)
1991/1992 - 1993/1994 (Jordan... David Robinson won it in '94/'95)

...or a whopping 17% of the time.

The only player to do it not named Michael Jordan was Shaquille O'Neal, in what was his best individual year (based on PER).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_yearly.html

 

[mgb]

The only factor that concerns me at all with Oden of course is injuries. As long as he stays healthy I'd take him over Durant.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I felt Oden was the right decision at the time and I continue to think so. I don't think I'm generally a homer for the Blazers or their players, but bias may be a factor. Defense can be quite subjective. I should note, though, that I've never felt negatively toward Durant and I have always thought he was a truly elite talent and should be a top player in the league. I feel no need to tear Durant down, but I sincerely feel that the Blazers got the better player...the only problem is minutes per game (which should be counted). If Oden played the minutes Durant did, I think he'd be at least as valuable. As it is, I think they're close in impact on the floor but Durant is more valuable due to the greater number of minutes.

I could have written that paragraph.

 

[maxiep]

Let us not forget that OKC is the Durant show. GO has a much more strictly defined role on this team and one that is pretty limited.

I also don't think we've seen Oden at 100% yet. His teammates don't know how to play with him on offense and our guards are still letting him be the last line of defense as they blow by our backcourt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Durant will have all the individual accolades and Oden will win all the titles.

 

[jlprk]

In a couple of years, the league will agree that Oden was the right choice. I'll stick with the logic all teams had at the draft. It's much easier to find a great wing than a great center.

 

[andalusian]

I like Greg, I'm happy he's starting to show that he can be something of a difference maker on the court, but let's get real here. Durant is probably going to win the MVP a couple of times before it's all said and done.

MVP? Maybe scoring title.

How many MVP titles did T-Mac win? And T-Mac is a better defender than Durant and a much better assist man.

Durant has a long long way to go to be at 'Melo's level - and 'Melo is now mentioned early in the season as an MVP candidate - but he is a more efficient scorer than Durant, He plays defense much better and seems to be able to take over games a lot more frequently than Durant can.

Be honest, if OKC had Greg and they were the ones enduring all of the false starts and setbacks he's gone through his first two years. People here would be crowing about the fact that we've got three unstoppable scoring options and Clay Bennett was being punished for moving the Sonics.

With all due respect to Durant - which is a fun player to watch - he is over-hyped beyond recognition. Sure, he scores like crazy - but he is not the first to do it and will not be the last. He has a long way to go to impact the game like a superstar, yet he gets the superstar hype.

I thought before that Greg was the way to go - and I have yet to see anything that would change my mind.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

if the draft is today, most of you know that you would take durant. we screwed up. its that simple.

Believe it or not, there are posters here who would still draft Oden over Durant.

What are you going do

 

[mook]

Scoring titles won championships in 91,92,93,96,97, & 98

The best defensive shooting guard in the NBA also won championships in 91,92,93,96,97, & 98.

 

[mook]

The easiest way for me to evaluate which guy is more likely to lead Portland to a championship is to imagine similar types of talents in their prime on this team. That helps eliminate biases for or against your own players, and forces you to think more in terms of roles.

Which looks more formidable:

Roy/Aldridge/Mutombo or Roy/Aldridge/Nowitzki?

Roy/Aldridge/Mourning or Roy/Aldridge/McGrady?

Roy/Aldridge/David Robinson or Roy/Aldridge/Dominique Wilkins?

Obviously, none of these comparisons are precise, because players at that level of talent tend have unique styles. Still, though, I think an elite defensive center seems to improve our chances at a title more than an elite scorer.

My analogy goes out the window, though, if I've misjudged the talent or if injury strikes. Looks a lot different if you say Roy/Aldridge/Bowie vs Roy/Aldridge/LeBron.

 

[Sex Panther]

Its funny how this is even a debate.

Oden's future is up in the air, while Durant is pretty much going to be a top 5 player in a couple of years. And it's not as if Durant is some underachieving rebounder. This guy can average 9 RPG to offset the possible 13 RPG Oden can put in the boxscore. I'm just tired of hearing Durant as 'just a scorer' when thats far from the truth. He's steadily becoming a decent defender (kind of like TMac's numbers back in Toronto) while putting up 9 rebounds and 26 points.

Who knows, Oden may end up a two-three time defensive player of the year. But I just don't see him as the next Tim Duncan (great player on both sides and probably the best player of this decade), more like Ben Wallace in his prime averaging slightly more points. I think he'll average around 15 PPG, 13(or maybe 14-15) RPG and 3 blocks a game. Durant will probably win some scoring titles and an MVP averaging around 27 PPG, 9 RPG and 4 APG. All speculation, but based on the deveopment curve they've both been placed in, it's hard not to say the Blazers made a mistake, plain and simple.

 

[maxiep]

Believe it or not, there are posters here who would still draft Oden over Durant.

What are you going do

Count me as one of them. We need GO's skill set more than Durant's.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Count me as one of them. We need GO's skill set more than Durant's.

You're not the only one . . . and I get the arguments.

To me, it reminds me of fans in Toronto who say the same thing about Roy and Barg.

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I would love to see a poll by GMs on this issue. Factoring in everything that posters mentioned here (team chemistry, potential, big man vs. scorer) . . . that is part of their job and I'm convinced a large majority, if not all, would pick Durant.

 

[andalusian]

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I would love to see a poll by GMs on this issue. Factoring in everything that posters mentioned here (team chemistry, potential, big man vs. scorer) . . . that is part of their job and I'm convinced a large majority, if not all, would pick Durant.

Forget the large majority, Isiah Thomas was a GM for multiple teams in this league, and McHale was for many years. Could care less if Chris Wallace takes Durant over Oden. What I want to hear is what the San Antonio gang would do. My gut feeling is that it will not be Durant...

 

[mook]

To me, it reminds me of fans in Toronto who say the same thing about Roy and Barg.

Bargnani hasn't shown nearly the production Oden has. Roy has described his teammate as "dominating." Has anyone in a Toronto uniform said that about Bargs?

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I would love to see a poll by GMs on this issue. Factoring in everything that posters mentioned here (team chemistry, potential, big man vs. scorer) . . . that is part of their job and I'm convinced a large majority, if not all, would pick Durant.

They probably would. But you also have to remember that GM's have to take into account what moves will and won't get them fired.

If they could draft the current version of Durant and put him next to Roy and Aldridge, nobody will ever question the move. The Blazers might or might not win a championship or two, but Durant would put fans in the seats, and it'd never be second-guessed.

As a fan, however, I'm not accountable for being fired. So I have the luxury of hoping not just for a championship and a crowded arena, but a Blazers Dynasty.

I just don't see that happening with Roy/Durant/Aldridge. Aren't enough shots to go around to keep all three happy for more than a year or two. Isn't enough defensive talent there to really dominate consistently.

I really don't know if Oden will be an elite center. His injury history is concerning. But I do know that if he actually lives up to his potential, Portland could be looking at multiple championships.