Oden's Body Can't Handle The NBA?

[oldmangrouch]

In his first 3 NBA seasons, Walton played in 151 games. Bowie played in 119. Oden will have played in 82.

If you believe Oden does not have a "pattern" or "history" or "tendency" where injuries are concerned, nothing I can say will change your mind. If you admit he has a pattern of injuries, but just don't consider it a problem, nothing I can say will change your mind.

Conversely, I'm too old and bitter to pretend this shit sandwich tastes like Philly Cheesesteak.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

My relative who's a doctor believes Greg Oden hasn't grown into his body just yet and could still (have) been growing. No pun intended.

 

[e_blazer]

In his first 3 NBA seasons, Walton played in 151 games. Bowie played in 119. Oden will have played in 82.

If you believe Oden does not have a "pattern" or "history" or "tendency" where injuries are concerned, nothing I can say will change your mind. If you admit he has a pattern of injuries, but just don't consider it a problem, nothing I can say will change your mind.

Conversely, I'm too old and bitter to pretend this shit sandwich tastes like Philly Cheesesteak.

Oden's had two injuries that were season-ending. Sucks. It's a cause for concern. I still don't see a connection between those facts and the injury history of Bill Walton or Sam Bowie.

 

[julius]

In his first 3 NBA seasons, Walton played in 151 games. Bowie played in 119. Oden will have played in 82.

If you believe Oden does not have a "pattern" or "history" or "tendency" where injuries are concerned, nothing I can say will change your mind. If you admit he has a pattern of injuries, but just don't consider it a problem, nothing I can say will change your mind.

Conversely, I'm too old and bitter to pretend this shit sandwich tastes like Philly Cheesesteak.

Patterns tend to repeat. What injuries have repeated?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Oden's had two injuries that were season-ending. Sucks. It's a cause for concern. I still don't see a connection between those facts and the injury history of Bill Walton or Sam Bowie.

And another that caused him to miss 20, and a broken wrist that hampered him in his lone season OSU ...

 

[tlongII]

Who knows? Greg certainly hasn't instilled me with a great deal of confidence that he'll have a long healthy career. He is a once in a generation talent though. I believe that. We absolutely have to give him all the chances we can. If he only has a couple of healthy seasons we can win a championship. I'm sure of it.

 

[julius]

And another that caused him to miss 20, and a broken wrist that hampered him in his lone season OSU ...

He missed 7 games due to his wrist, can came back early.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Who knows? Greg certainly hasn't instilled me with a great deal of confidence that he'll have a long healthy career. He is a once in a generation talent though. I believe that. We absolutely have to give him all the chances we can. If he only has a couple of healthy seasons we can win a championship. I'm sure of it.

Nope ... Dwight Howard possibly is a a 'once in a decade' center, but Oden (despite all of the hype bestowed upon him in high school) is not a once in a generation center.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Nope ... Dwight Howard possibly is a a 'once in a decade' center, but Oden (despite all of the hype bestowed upon him in high school) is not a once in a generation center.

Anymore.

 

[Nikolokolus]

He missed 7 games due to his wrist, can came back early.

And they play about 30 games in college ... so that's still almost 25% of the season.

 

[tlongII]

Nope ... Dwight Howard possibly is a a 'once in a decade' center, but Oden (despite all of the hype bestowed upon him in high school) is not a once in a generation center.

I disagree. If you look at his stats I think they argue that he is.

 

[julius]

And they play about 30 games in college ... so that's still almost 25% of the season.

he played in 32 of 39 games that year (82% of his games) and lead his team to the final four with a bad wrist.

And came back early.

 

[OddEnormous]

Oden's had two injuries that were season-ending. Sucks. It's a cause for concern. I still don't see a connection between those facts and the injury history of Bill Walton or Sam Bowie.

The good news is that our guards are never ever going to have severe injuries because Terry Porter and Andre Miller haven't.

That's simple logic.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I disagree. If you look at his stats I think they argue that he is.

Once in a generation? I've looked at his stats, and while good to very good, they do not project him as one of the best center's to ever play the game.

Go look at Tim Duncan, Shaq, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem, Wilt, Russel, Jabar, etc. in the early parts of their careers; Greg is barely a shadow of what those guys were.

I'm not saying Greg can't be a very good center (if he stays healthy), but I think you are throwing around the term 'once in a generation' a little loosely here.

 

[OddEnormous]

Again, I specifically said that is NOT what I was saying:

"Not that injuries are independent from each other like coin flips (that isn't the point of the analogy)"

What I was saying is that seeing "patterns" in the past doesn't tell us anything about the current situation unless there are similar root causes. In that sense, it IS random...it's random whether Oden happens to be injury-prone like Walton or Bowie, just as it's random whether a person off the street has the same last name as you. What last name you got isn't random (it's based on your parents) but it is random whether someone unrelated to you has the same last name. Similarly, whether Oden is injury-prone is not random...but whether he is "like Walton and Bowie" is.

If they had had similar injuries, then there would be merit comparing the players in terms of "patterns." But when they all suffered from different injuries, then I think it's no different than comparing unrelated, independent phenomenons like separate streaks of coin flips.

I don't understand, why does Greg Oden keep getting hurt when Duckworth, Chis Dudley never did?

it just doesn't make any sense. They were all Blazer Centers. Surely that connects them and anything that happens to one will happen to the others.

 

[BGrantFan]

Oden has been prone to injury so far in both his collegiate and pro career. Whether that will continue in the future is unknown, but the past is the best predictor of the future. I don't expect Oden to ever play 75 games a season consistently. Heck, I'd be happy if he limits his ailments to a turned ankle that cause him to miss a few weeks a season. This season-ending stuff makes me apprehensive about his future as a reliable cornerstone, which is sad, because the dude is a beast and was finding his groove this year.

 

[Minstrel]

Oden (despite all of the hype bestowed upon him in high school) is not a once in a generation center.

Remains to be seen. The injuries have been bad, but his play has been inconsistent with the first games of Hall of Fame center. Whether he'll build on that remains to be seen.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Patterns tend to repeat. What injuries have repeated?

If you define "pattern" as the same bone breaking over and over, then you are correct. OTOH, Oden has had 4 leg injuries (1 hip and 3 knee injuries) - and only one (the collision with Maggette) had an obvious cause.

You reject even the possibility these injuries are related?


Edit: I'm not just trying to be nasty here. I wanted Oden to be a stud, just like everybody else...but at some point you have to say "this isn't working, we need a plan B."

 

[Minstrel]

You reject even the possibility these injuries are related? Fine.

Personally, I don't reject the possibility. I reject the certainty that you and those who are in the "Oden is a bust" viewpoint espouse.

 

[oldmangrouch]

And another that caused him to miss 20, and a broken wrist that hampered him in his lone season OSU ...

And one leg is longer than the other because as a kid he blew out his hip joint.

 

[BGrantFan]

And they play about 30 games in college ... so that's still almost 25% of the season.

Plus, Oden shot FTs with his left hand at OSU, so his play was hampered by that injury the entire year.

 

[julius]

If you define "pattern" as the same bone breaking over and over, then you are correct. OTOH, Oden has had 4 leg injuries (1 hip and 3 knee injuries) - and only one (the collision with Maggette) had an obvious cause.

You reject even the possibility these injuries are related? Fine.

I don't know if I'd consider a knee to knee brace being an injury one could associate with "injury prone" or "patterns".

That was just dumb luck.

As for the other "patterns", like I said, for it to be something that you are on the look out for, it'd be good if the two main injuries he had were A: related or B: in the same knee. Or hell, the same PART of the knee if you want to use both knees as one "body part".

They aren't related injuries, and considering Joel basically did the same thing a few games later (although worse), maybe we should give Joel a pre-emptive microfracture procedure on his good knee.

A pattern, to me, is when he keeps spraining/breaking the same actual body part. Either not giving himself enough time to heal (one could argue Brandon in this scenario), or because of genetics (Bowie's bones, Waltons feet/ankles).

In Greg's case, it could just be that because of one leg being shorter than the other, and not having the $$ to correct it (with shoes, or whatever), it could've caused undue pressure on one knee. As for his 2nd knee injury, that could just be a freak incident, where his legs were too strong for his knee (that is one theory I heard. Don't remember where).

I guess they're related, in the sense that he might've been over compensating with the leg length issue and that might've caused the original knee injury.

But I don't see how a microfracture repair on one knee, could have anything to do with the injury to his patella. Please explain how that is possible.

Are there magic goblins that live in his knees, and travel up one leg to the other, and tinker with his knee-cap on his other knee? Did the doctor hypnotize Greg when he was under the knife, so he'd injure his knee because he jumped?

How is the MF in the right knee (which wasn't giving him problems anymore) related to the patella breaking in his left knee?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Plus, Oden shot FTs with his left hand at OSU, so his play was hampered by that injury the entire year.

I'm not sure what that has to do with Greg being particularly durable? The debate here isn't whether or not Greg has some raw physical tools and some talent, it's whether or not there's a high likelihood of him ever being healthy enough to put them all together long enough to make an impact on a championship team.

For now, I'm pretty firmly in the middle ground -- I don't think he's a bust, but I'm also not very confident about his long term prospects.

 

[julius]

I'm confused as to why we're talking about this, instead of 1200 lame trade scenarios.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I'm confused as to why we're talking about this, instead of 1200 lame trade scenarios.

What do you think about Jarred Jeffries and Eddy Curry for Greg, Joel, Webster and Rudy?

 

[oldmangrouch]

I don't know if I'd consider a knee to knee brace being an injury one could associate with "injury prone" or "patterns".

That was just dumb luck.

As for the other "patterns", like I said, for it to be something that you are on the look out for, it'd be good if the two main injuries he had were A: related or B: in the same knee. Or hell, the same PART of the knee if you want to use both knees as one "body part".

They aren't related injuries, and considering Joel basically did the same thing a few games later (although worse), maybe we should give Joel a pre-emptive microfracture procedure on his good knee.

A pattern, to me, is when he keeps spraining/breaking the same actual body part. Either not giving himself enough time to heal (one could argue Brandon in this scenario), or because of genetics (Bowie's bones, Waltons feet/ankles).

In Greg's case, it could just be that because of one leg being shorter than the other, and not having the $$ to correct it (with shoes, or whatever), it could've caused undue pressure on one knee. As for his 2nd knee injury, that could just be a freak incident, where his legs were too strong for his knee (that is one theory I heard. Don't remember where).

I guess they're related, in the sense that he might've been over compensating with the leg length issue and that might've caused the original knee injury.

But I don't see how a microfracture repair on one knee, could have anything to do with the injury to his patella. Please explain how that is possible.

Are there magic goblins that live in his knees, and travel up one leg to the other, and tinker with his knee-cap on his other knee? Did the doctor hypnotize Greg when he was under the knife, so he'd injure his knee because he jumped?

How is the MF in the right knee (which wasn't giving him problems anymore) related to the patella breaking in his left knee?

Having hip problems/one leg longer than the other puts unnatural strain on *both* legs. (and can even cause back pain)

Oh well....in a sense, it doesn't matter why. All that really matters is how the team recovers from this setback.

 

[julius]

What do you think about Jarred Jeffries and Eddy Curry for Greg, Joel, Webster and Rudy?

I think you need to adjust your medications.

Like we could get away with only sending those 3 for Eddy Curry!

 

[BGrantFan]

I'm not sure what that has to do with Greg being particularly durable? The debate here isn't whether or not Greg has some raw physical tools and some talent, it's whether or not there's a high likelihood of him ever being healthy enough to put them all together long enough to make an impact on a championship team.

For now, I'm pretty firmly in the middle ground -- I don't think he's a bust, but I'm also not very confident about his long term prospects.

You mentioned in a previous post that Oden's play was 'hampered' at OSU. A response stated that he played in 82% of the games. I was actually adding to your position. His play was 'hampered' by an injury that entire season, even though he played in 82% of the games. At this point, the fact is that Oden has been prone to injury since he entered OSU. Whether that continues in the future is a complete unknown, but as someone posted previously, if I was forced to bet on the odds, I'd place my money on the pattern I've seen versus something I haven't seen.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You mentioned in a previous post that Oden's play was 'hampered' at OSU. A response stated that he played in 82% of the games. I was actually adding to your position. His play was 'hampered' by an injury that entire season, even though he played in 82% of the games. At this point, the fact is that Oden has been prone to injury since he entered OSU. Whether that continues in the future is a complete unknown, but as someone posted previously, if I was forced to bet on the odds, I'd place my money on the pattern I've seen versus something I haven't seen.

Ah gotcha.

 

[BBert]

I have to admit I have lost some of my Oden optimism. His injuries are very disappointing and disheartening. We can't and shouldn't count on anything before it happens, and at the moment I almost feel like anything we get out of him in the future is a bonus. I'm still clinging to a straw of hope that his body matures, and his doctors and trainers can get help him get and stay healthy. The Oden we were seeing this year was one of the best centers in the league. And he can be much better.