OT ODOT BUILDING PLAN TO TOLL COMMUTERS

[BigGameDamian]

http://www.kgw.com/mobile/article/news/local/odot-building-plan-to-toll-commuters/493406737

The Oregon Department of Transportation is getting serious about tolls.

PORTLAND, Ore. – The Oregon Department of Transportation is getting serious about tolls.

During a meeting Monday at ODOT’s regional headquarters, 25 people on a committee representing many sides of the toll road debate discussed the issue. The public was also invited to attend.

The two routes ODOT is considering for tolls are Interstate 5 and Interstate 205 from the Washington border down to the Interstate 205 junction south of Portland.

Supporters say the tolls could relieve congestion and frustration on the major commute routes.

Tolling, or as ODOT calls it, "value pricing," can come in several forms. You could pay for a dedicated travel lane, or to drive at peak times.

The agency hopes drivers take an interest as they talk about the options.

“We hope that the process will educate folks and they might see the benefits that value pricing will bring to the region in terms of making reliable, less congested trips for people who are traveling here,” said Travis Brouwer, assistant director for ODOT.

If tolls happen, they are at least a couple of years away. In the meantime, drivers are already forming opinions.

“I don’t appreciate the traffic at all, especially when I have all these kids and we’re trying to get to where we need to go," one woman said. "And I would pay to get there a little bit faster."

But another driver we spoke with doesn’t think there are enough lanes available to make tolling work.

“I mean just put a nickel on the gas or whatever, the toll’s not gonna work," she said. "It’s congested every day at rush hour, you know. It just wouldn’t work.”

To learn more and give drivers a chance to weigh in, ODOT is holding several other public committee meetings through next June on the tolling issue.

The next meeting is December 7 in Portland. The agency needs to have a proposal to submit to the federal government by the end of 2018.

 

[Strenuus]

"Value Pricing" is this fast food?

 

[Haakzilla]

...yeah, so they are magically going to open up more lanes?! This seems impossible given the limited room/shoulder width going in each direction. By "value pricing" the routes they are banking that less people will travel simply because it now cost more to do so this makes no sense and will make even less cents unless they create a brand new highway out of it (an impossible task)

 

[stampedehero]

Please don't let your DOT officials talk to anyone of same status in New Jersey.

 

[barfo]

By "value pricing" the routes they are banking that less people will travel simply because it now cost more to do so this makes no sense

Why does it make no sense? Are you saying you'd drive on the freeway the same amount no matter what it cost? You'd pay $10/trip? $10,000/trip? $10 kajillion/trip?

barfo

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Why does it make no sense? Are you saying you'd drive on the freeway the same amount no matter what it cost? You'd pay $10/trip? $10,000/trip? $10 kajillion/trip?

barfo

I remember the empty toll roads in Colorado outside of Denver; all tolls do is crowd the free road more. Has the Apple app store pricing model taught us nothing? A worse, free option is always chosen over a premium, superior option.

 

[barfo]

I remember the empty toll roads in Colorado outside of Denver; all tolls do is crowd the free road more. Has the Apple app store pricing model taught us nothing? A worse, free option is always chosen over a premium, superior option.

That is of course correct. But what is the free road over the Columbia?

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

That is of course correct. But what is the free road over the Columbia?

barfo

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Let Californians move in left and right and you turn into California with shitty weather. How surprising.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Let Californians move in left and right and you turn into California with shitty weather. How surprising.

I wish Cascadia hadn't been co-opted by racist Nazi's recently, because I'm all for Cascadia for Cascadians.

 

[MarAzul]

Man that's Oregon for you. We build a Federal Interstate highway system and Oregon wants to tax the use of it for commuters instead of building commuter system. The interstate highways should never have been routed even into the City of Portland, let alone right down the river banks down town.

This idea is just doubling down on dumb.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Man that's Oregon for you. We build a Federal Interstate highway system and Oregon wants to tax the use of it for commuters instead of building commuter system. The interstate highways should never have been routed even into the City of Portland, let alone right down the river banks down town.

This idea is just doubling down on dumb.

Califoregone.

I added the e on purpose. All the Californians, rain and rain AND no Disneyland.

 

[barfo]

Man that's Oregon for you. We build a Federal Interstate highway system and Oregon wants to tax the use of it for commuters instead of building commuter system. The interstate highways should never have been routed even into the City of Portland, let alone right down the river banks down town.

Also, New Orleans shouldn't have been built below sea level. And Germans shouldn't have let Hitler come to power. And Adam shouldn't have bitten into that apple. And...

It isn't "Oregon for you". Hindsight is very useful anywhere you go.

barfo

 

[Haakzilla]

Why does it make no sense? Are you saying you'd drive on the freeway the same amount no matter what it cost? You'd pay $10/trip? $10,000/trip? $10 kajillion/trip?

barfo

...no, I am saying that the proposed toll on the roads that were not previously tolled isn't going to make traffic magically disappear. Only way to do that is to make room for new lanes and/or new highways altogether. Commuters are going to be pissed if they are paying for the toll and still sitting in bumper to bumper traffic.

 

[barfo]

...no, I am saying that the proposed toll on the roads that were not previously tolled isn't going to make traffic magically disappear.

It will if the toll is high enough.

Only way to do that is to make room for new lanes and/or new highways altogether.

That does not make traffic disappear. Many argue that that creates more traffic.

Commuters are going to be pissed if they are paying for the toll and still sitting in bumper to bumper traffic.

Maybe if they get pissed enough they'll stop commuting by car, reducing traffic.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Hindsight is very useful anywhere you go.

New Orleans shouldn't have been built below sea level

Of course it is!

Just think about New Orleans shouldn't have been (re)built below sea level.

 

[dviss1]

Man that's Oregon for you. We build a Federal Interstate highway system and Oregon wants to tax the use of it for commuters instead of building commuter system. The interstate highways should never have been routed even into the City of Portland, let alone right down the river banks down town.

This idea is just doubling down on dumb.

That moment when you agree with @MarAzul

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

That moment when you agree with @MarAzul

It's a good start

 

[barfo]

Of course it is!

Just think about New Orleans shouldn't have been (re)built below sea level.

I would definitely agree with you on that one.

barfo

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I love the toll/carpool lanes. I usually drive solo and I love using them even though it costs like a buck or two.

 

[MarAzul]

That moment when you agree with @MarAzul

I would definitely agree with you on that one.

barfo

Wow!

 

[jonnyboy]

I remember the empty toll roads in Colorado outside of Denver; all tolls do is crowd the free road more. Has the Apple app store pricing model taught us nothing? A worse, free option is always chosen over a premium, superior option.

I can vouch for this as a person who frequents the Denver area. I've literally never seen a single car, among thousands, in the toll lanes. Less free lanes=more traffic for everyone. Toll lanes are like golf courses, they are elitist and take up entirely too much room.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I can vouch for this as a person who frequents the Denver area. I've literally never seen a single car, among thousands, in the toll lanes. Less free lanes=more traffic for everyone. Toll lanes are like golf courses, they are elitist and take up entirely too much room.

Every time I go to California the fast pass lanes are empty and thousands of people are idling along doing 15 mph right next to them.

That HAS to be good for the environment huh?

Yes, let's double the time the majority of the cars are on the road so a few rich people can fly by. And the roads are full of debris... California is a hole. Don't let them do that to Oregon people.

 

[barfo]

I would agree that single tolled lanes are not the way to go. Tolling the interstate bridges is what makes sense.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Every time I go to California the fast pass lanes are empty and thousands of people are idling along doing 15 mph right next to them.

That HAS to be good for the environment huh?

Yes, let's double the time the majority of the cars are on the road so a few rich people can fly by. And the roads are full of debris... California is a hole. Don't let them do that to Oregon people.

You boys are going to ruin the plans! Get the commuters to get pissed and not drive because it is so ugly. I don't know what their plan is
for the people that need a car at work though. I can guess, screw umm.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You boys are going to ruin the plans! Get the commuters to get pissed and not drive because it is so ugly. I don't know what their plan is
for the people that need a car at work though. I can guess, screw umm.

Unfortunately for all of us. Californians are moving to the NW and Vegas at a rapid pace. That's all the plan is accomplishing as of now.

 

[MarAzul]

Unfortunately for all of us. Californians are moving to the NW and Vegas at a rapid pace. That's all the plan is accomplishing as of now.

The Interstate was not intended to be a commuter lane, but it is. Who will come to grips with the reality of the population has increase to maybe 2.5 time what it was when the Interstates were built and on track to double that by the middle of this century. The whole damn interstate with every lane a commuter lane will be totally inadequate. It doesn't much matter whether they switch places or not. Cal, Or, and WA are all on the same glide.

 

[MARIS61]

Interstate tolls are unconstitutional.

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), freedom of movement has been judicially recognized as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."

 

[barfo]

Interstate tolls are unconstitutional.

Freedom of movement under United States law is governed primarily by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." As far back as the circuit court ruling in Corfield v. Coryell, 6 Fed. Cas. 546 (1823), freedom of movement has been judicially recognized as a fundamental Constitutional right. In Paul v. Virginia, 75 U.S. 168 (1869), the Court defined freedom of movement as "right of free ingress into other States, and egress from them."

You are free to swim across the river anytime you want.

barfo

 

[Further]

I use the fast pass whenever I go into San Francisco’s. For a very large and tightly packed city traffic isn’t nearly as bad as in pdx although there are sports like the gg bridge.

Didn’t Portland offer to pay half of a bridge as long as it had a max line and that was rejected by those in Vancouver? The traffic is their fault and they see it as worth the tax relief.

I say toll the bridge and over time build an additional one with the funds.