Official 2013 Draft thread

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The only real sub-6'0" guy that I've been high on for a while is Pierre Jackson... not as a star in the league or anything, but as a great reserve that'd be great on a contender for instant offense off the bench. Most of the time you just have to look past their measurements and just look at their performance on the floor, and Jackson has been insanely productive at Baylor. They underachieved this year based on the talent they had on paper, and you'd think that a lot of that would fall on Jackson's shoulders, but really, he's the only one that kept them in a lot of their close losses with his play down the stretch.

In fact, Jackson led the Big 12 in both ppg and apg this season. The last player to accomplish that feat in a "Power Six" conference was Jason Terry at Arizona, fourteen years ago. Not to mention, he pulled down 3.8 rpg as a 5'10" pg...
 
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To tell you the truth, I don't remember him too clearly, I have a vision of him making a 3 pointer but I don't think he's a pure shooter. I think at the time I compared him in my mind to Potyeress, a guard that's very solid but doesn't wow you. I think I do remember most of their offense coming from him and Corey Jefferson at PF but then when Isaiah Austin - The very skinny 7 footer that wears glasses, shoots 3s and finishes alley-oops - got in the game, the whole thing turned into something completely different (the word 'circus' comes to mind) and maybe that's what blurred my memory of Pierre Jackson.
 
Blazer4ever said:
To tell you the truth, I don't remember him too clearly, I have a vision of him making a 3 pointer but I don't think he's a pure shooter. I think at the time I compared him in my mind to Potyeress, a guard that's very solid but doesn't wow you. I think I do remember most of their offense coming from him and Corey Jefferson at PF but then when Isaiah Austin - The very skinny 7 footer that wears glasses, shoots 3s and finishes alley-oops - got in the game, the whole thing turned into something completely different (the word 'circus' comes to mind) and maybe that's what blurred my memory of Pierre Jackson.
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You catch any of the NIT? Pierre Jackson looked great there, leading his team to the NIT title, and he also looked great when they just destroyed #4 Kansas, at the end of the season.

For reference, here were the numbers - 21.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 11.0 apg in 34.4 mpg in the NIT (including a 26/3/16/4 game against Arizona State) and 28 points, 6 rebounds, 10 assists, and 2 steals against #4 Kansas on 11-13 FG shooting. His two years at Baylor and his NIT performances aside, the Kansas game was really an eye-opener. That Kansas team was full of future NBA players, and he just destroyed them.
 
No, haven't seen him there. I've never seen Seth Curry BTW. Also Otto Porter and Bennett I don't ever remember seeing.
 
Blazer4ever said:
No, haven't seen him there. I've never seen Seth Curry BTW. Also Otto Porter and Bennett I don't ever remember seeing.
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You're not missing much with Otto Porter. He's really a poor man's Evan Turner. It's blowing my mind seeing the mocks that think Washington will take him #3 just because he's a local kid. This draft is weak at the top, but why would a team throw away the chance to get a guy like Oladipo just so they could get a less valuable fan favorite? This isn't a second round pick we're talking about...

Bennett's the real deal. Maybe in a class that was stronger at the top of the draft, he'd be a mid-lotto guy, but if a team really wants to take him #3, I wouldn't call that a stretch.
 
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NOVoodoo said:
You're not missing much with Otto Porter. He's really a poor man's Evan Turner. It's blowing my mind seeing the mocks that think Washington will take him #3 just because he's a local kid. This draft is weak at the top, but why would a team throw away the chance to get a guy like Oladipo just so they could get a less valuable fan favorite? This isn't a second round pick we're talking about...

Bennett's the real deal. Maybe in a class that was stronger at the top of the draft, he'd be a mid-lotto guy, but if a team really wants to take him #3, I wouldn't call that a stretch.
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Haven't seen Bennett but he definitely seems like one of the higher upside guys in the draft. Watching clips he looks like a combo of Melo and Z-Bo lol.

As far as Porter- yeah I don't quite get the alleged hype among GMs that ranks him top 3 or top 5. Hes definitely top 10 in this draft but seems like he'll be a good all around role player more than a star. Iguodala kind of upside but maybe Tayshaun Prince is more attainable. Not a bad pickup but you'd like to do better than Prince with a top 5 pick.
 
Tim Hardaway Jr., Reggie Bullock, Ricardo Ledo, Shabazz. I think those are the prospects I've adjusted to the most. I like them. All obtainable if we package our second rounders, I believe.
 
NOVoodoo said:
You're not missing much with Otto Porter. He's really a poor man's Evan Turner. It's blowing my mind seeing the mocks that think Washington will take him #3 just because he's a local kid. This draft is weak at the top, but why would a team throw away the chance to get a guy like Oladipo just so they could get a less valuable fan favorite? This isn't a second round pick we're talking about...

Bennett's the real deal. Maybe in a class that was stronger at the top of the draft, he'd be a mid-lotto guy, but if a team really wants to take him #3, I wouldn't call that a stretch.
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I actually disagree with you hear. Porter is one of the few guys in the draft that I think has star potential.
 
Tweets:

Josh Newman ‏@Joshua_Newman 25m Really liked Baylor PG Pierre Jackson today at Nets Combine. Height (5-10) is an issue, but he's a player. Several mocks have him in the 40s


Josh Newman ‏@Joshua_Newman 22m
Jackson was D1 JuCo Player of the Year as a soph at Southern Idaho. Averaged 20 and 7 and was MVP of NIT this season for Baylor.

Highlights:

[video=youtube;Ls-4PFZmKbE]
 
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Ford compared this draft with the 2006 draft.

Outside the obvious few (LMA, Roy, Rondo, Gay) that draft was UGLY.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Ford compared this draft with the 2006 draft.
Outside the obvious few (LMA, Roy, Rondo, Gay) that draft was UGLY.
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BUT even in drafts like that, you can get good players lower down:
21. Rajon Rondo
24. Kyle Lowry
32. Steve Novak
42. Daniel GIbson
47. Paul Milsap
50. Ryan Hollins
undrafted: Barea, Lou Amundson, CJ Watson
 
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That's basically what he said in that podcast - this draft is deep with rotation players.
 
2. After Noel and Len, there's a big group of post prospects who could go between picks 10 and 30: Cody Zeller, Steven Adams, Mason Plumlee, Kelly Olynyk, Gorgui Dieng, Jeff Withey and maybe even Mike Muscala. Which of them will make the biggest impact in the NBA?

The Zeller and Adams bandwagons have been filling up following the combine, but the answer is Olynyk. I'm surprised that a 7-footer with such advanced offensive skills -- his drive-and-spin game is so good, and he's an excellent finisher at the rim -- is only a fringe Lottery Pick at the moment. They called Olynyk "The Clinic" because he was the most efficient high-usage scorer on any ranked team, a guy who shot 66.0 percent on the interior and delivered in face-up, low-post and transition situations. His 123.3 offensive rating on 30.3 percent usage put him in Michael Beasley/Blake Griffin territory for great seasons by recent college big men.

Olynyk is 22 years old but this is the first season in which his game has matched his body. He was a high-school point guard (hence his ballhandling and shooting skills) who had a growth spurt, struggled early at Gonzaga and then blew up after a redshirt year in which he added significant strength and developed his neural system. He came back as a fully coordinated giant who could be a high-reward pick despite his defensive shortcomings. If you need a rim-protector outside the top 10, go with Dieng, but if you want the most intriguing 7-foot scorer to come out of college in years, go with Olynyk.
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-Luke Winn

~Sports Illustrated
 
MickZagger said:
-Luke Winn

~Sports Illustrated
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Nogueira? Gobert?

Anyway, I don't think the worry was ever with Olynyk's offense exactly - other than his lack of lift which causes his shot to get blocked at a high clip. The size at center in the NBA is only going to make that worse.

But his defense is...yikes.
 
Now that I'm finally seeing the bench press numbers being released, how mindfucking are the following #'s -

Cody Zeller - 17 (sixth overall)
Matthew Dellavedova - 16 (ninth overall and #1 for guards, tied with Canaan and Hardaway, equaling big man Steven Adams)

Brandon Paul also had a very surprising 15 reps. That's impressive, because the guy made his living as a perimeter shooter.

Lower body strength and core strength matters more for NBA players than upper body strength, but it's still interesting to see that Matthew Dellavedova can bench as much as Steven Adams.

And for Zeller, the rich keep getting richer with these measurements. Not only did he have the highest no-step vert of any 6'9"+ big in over a decade, he also showed up strong on the bench. The only players that benched more, who have a shot of getting drafted were Mbakwe and Cooley.

(I'm not high on Cody Zeller as a high draft pick, but just knowing the biases in the draft process, I'll steal a thought process from Jason Kapono and say, "if Tyler Zeller would have moved to Greece and changed his name to "Giannis Adetokunbo," he'd be a top five pick.")
 
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NOVoodoo said:
Now that I'm finally seeing the bench press numbers being released, how mindfucking are the following #'s -

Cody Zeller - 17 (sixth overall)
Matthew Dellavedova - 16 (ninth overall and #1 for guards, tied with Canaan and Hardaway, equaling big man Steven Adams)

Brandon Paul also had a very surprising 15 reps. That's impressive, because the guy made his living as a perimeter shooter.

Lower body strength and core strength matters more for NBA players than upper body strength, but it's still interesting to see that Matthew Dellavedova can bench as much as Steven Adams.

And for Zeller, the rich keep getting richer with these measurements. Not only did he have the highest no-step vert of any 6'9"+ big in over a decade, he also showed up strong on the bench. The only players that benched more, who have a shot of getting drafted were Mbakwe and Cooley.

(I'm not high on Cody Zeller as a high draft pick, but just knowing the biases in the draft process, I'll steal a thought process from Jason Kapono and say, "if Tyler Zeller would have moved to Greece and changed his name to "Giannis Adetokunbo," he'd be a top five pick.")
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Whenever I think about these measurements, all can I think about is Luke Babbitt. Compare his results a couple years ago to Zeller's:
--Babbitt: max vert 37.5", max reach 11'10", bench 15, agility 10.98
--Zeller: max vert 37.5", max reach 11'11.5", bench 17, agility 10.82

So, Zeller has one of the best big man testing results, and his athleticism is roughly equal to that of a game-slow 3rd-string 3rd-year small forward who can't get time on a 33-win team.
 
I have a feeling that this year, even more than most, the mock-drafters are going to be way off. Every year there's a sort of game between the people who make mock drafts where they come to a consensus on the "value" of certain picks. The mock drafts are more like lists of the top players according to some scale - it's like a marketplace system - and they convince themselves that a team would be crazy to take a "less valuable" player because, even if they prefer that player, they can turn around and deal the more valuable player for the player they want PLUS MORE (like Nellie taking Tractor Traylor and trading down for Dirk Nowitzki). But that assumes perfect fluidity in the market and perfect trust between GMs and suchlike. And a lot of GMs don't give a shit about the mock drafters and have criteria that they know nothing about (including owners with particular faves whispering in their ears). This year, with so much parity anyway, I think there'll be a LOT of picks that the Chad Fords of this world will be scratching their heads over.

Which is a long way of saying that I think Dieng may go a lot higher than people are saying.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Whenever I think about these measurements, all can I think about is Luke Babbitt. Compare his results a couple years ago to Zeller's:
--Babbitt: max vert 37.5", max reach 11'10", bench 15, agility 10.98
--Zeller: max vert 37.5", max reach 11'11.5", bench 17, agility 10.82

So, Zeller has one of the best big man testing results, and his athleticism is roughly equal to that of a game-slow 3rd-string 3rd-year small forward who can't get time on a 33-win team.
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Ouch. The truth hurts. Luke was a very mobile big guy in college, but it hasn't translated.
 
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 1h
Patriot League alert! In NY workout with C.J. McCollum & Mike Muscala. Both guys shooting the ball incredibly well.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 1h
Good. Foot looks like its totally healed. Cutting and jumping well. But jumper stood out RT @Future23: how does McCollum's athleticism look?

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 1h
Muscala had one of the best workouts I've EVER seen for a big man. Literally missed just 2 shots entire workout. Crazy skills for big.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 54m
Muscala, by the way, had the highest shooting percentage of anyone at NBA Draft Combine.

Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 40m
Next up in NY: Syracuse's Michael Carter-Williams. He's putting on some impressive ball handling drills right now.
 
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Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 11m
Carter-Williams shot looking better. Shot around 55% NBA 3. 65% college 3. 80% mid range during workout.
 
Boise Blazer said:
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 11m
Carter-Williams shot looking better. Shot around 55% NBA 3. 65% college 3. 80% mid range during workout.
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Hmm that is interesting. Young guys improve. If he can shoot then he will end up being a good pick for someone. Maybe he would be the bPA after all
 
Sean Michael Meagher ‏@sean2m 1m
"Kazemi is just a flat-out player and the type of glue guy a team might love to grab in the 2nd round." -- Chad Ford
 
Boise Blazer said:
Sean Michael Meagher ‏@sean2m 1m
"Kazemi is just a flat-out player and the type of glue guy a team might love to grab in the 2nd round." -- Chad Ford
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I would love to give him a try. If not with our last pick, then as a free agent. He would be at the end of our bench, but he intrigues me. His hands are suppose to be off the charts large. When he gets them on a ball, he hangs on.
And he has a knack for getting to the ball.
 
Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress 18s
DX Nets Combine Recap: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2013-Nets-Combine-Recap-4207 … What happened and who stood out (Pierre Jackson, Kazemi, Dellavedova, Mbakwe, Stephens, more)

Mbakwe did a terrific job of reminding scouts of just how effective he can be inside the paint in short spurts, as he simply changed the game at times with his ability to push opponents around and crash the offensive glass. He's one of the most physical, competitive big men in this class, sporting a man's frame at 6-8 in shoes with a 7-4 wingspan, and bench pressing 185 pounds 21 times at the NBA Combine, tops among the 2013 draft class. Mbakwe is limited on the perimeter and is also one of the oldest prospects in the draft at 24 years old, but he's also the second best rebounder in this class, which has to count for something.
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Kazemi is another prospect who elected not to attend Portsmouth but found himself left out of Chicago, which added to the urgency of his situation in this 60-minute workout. Kazemi did a terrific job of reminding scouts of what he brings to the table, as he was dominant at times as a rebounder on both ends of the floor, and also showed solid potential in other areas as well, which will certainly help his cause. Kazemi spent a decent amount of time defending the perimeter in New Jersey as his team had more big men than guards, which ended up working out in his favor. He did a solid job in both straight-up man to man situations and as a pick and roll defender, moving his feet well, coming up with a number of deflections and steals, and looking very much under control despite the reckless abandon he plays with. Offensively, he made good decisions, passing the ball effectively and finishing the looks created for him around the basket. Even if Kazemi doesn't hear his name called on draft night, he will certainly have plenty of teams calling to get him on their summer league roster. It wouldn't be surprising at all to see him make a NBA team's roster and stick around thanks to his rebounding prowess and overall toughness.
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Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 33s
Spurs, Jazz, Hawks were only 3 teams to interview him @ combine RT @BrockOchoGOAT: Muscala has Spurs steal of the draft written all over him
 
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 33s
Spurs, Jazz, Hawks were only 3 teams to interview him @ combine RT @BrockOchoGOAT: Muscala has Spurs steal of the draft written all over him
 
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