Politics Official 2024 Presidential Election Thread (1 Viewer)

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Who will "Win?"

  • Total voters
    42
PCmor7 said:
I think the poster was making a sarcastic comment on Trump saying he was shutting down the Department of Education, not that he was a Trump voter.
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Oh yeah, my reply wasn't to him directly, just to the uneducated brainwashed folk.
 
jonnyboy said:
Like i said, your side takes the shit cake when it comes to shaming and degrading voters. You can deflect it to Trump all you want, but your side did it so well they lost every single swing state and even the popular vote. It’s actually quite impressive. Congratulations.
Click to expand...
MAGA voters deserve shame and degradation. So that might be a factor. Nobody is changing your mind why do you want explanations or reasons or any of our answers?
 
Phatguysrule said:
In my view, here are some of the working class priorities that Democrats must fight for:
  • We must end Citizens United and stop billionaires from buying elections.
  • We must raise the $7.25 federal minimum wage to a living wage — at least $17 an hour.
  • We must pass the Protecting the Right to Organize Act to make it easier for workers to form unions and end illegal union busting.
  • We must protect senior citizens by increasing Social Security benefits and extending the solvency of the program by lifting the cap on taxable income.
  • We must bring back defined benefit pension plans so that workers can retire with security.
  • We must do what every other wealthy nation does and guarantee health care to all as a human right, beginning with the expansion of Medicare to cover home health care, dental, hearing, and vision.
  • We must cut prescription drug prices in half, no more than is paid in other countries.
  • We must provide guaranteed paid family and medical leave.
  • We must guarantee equal pay for equal work.
  • We must create fair trade policies that work for workers, not just corporate CEOs.
  • We must build 3 million units of low income and affordable housing.
  • We must make public colleges and universities tuition free, childcare affordable for all, and strengthen public education by paying teachers the salaries they deserve.
  • We must adopt a progressive tax system which addresses the massive income and wealth inequality we are experiencing by demanding that the very wealthy start paying their fair share of taxes.
  • We must save taxpayer dollars by ending the massive waste, fraud and abuse that exists in the Pentagon.

These are extremely popular ideas. The Democratic Party would do well to listen to the clear directive of American voters, and deliver. The simple fact is: if you stand with working people, they will stand with you. In my view, if Democrats deliver on an agenda like this, they can win back the working class of our country and the White House.
Bernie Sanders is an Independent US senator from Vermont.
Click to expand...

Maybe Democrats will listen to Bernie this time around, but since he's been a senator for 18 years and hasn't gotten any of these things done, I'm guessing his powers of persuasion won't be sufficient this time either. And also, the Democrats are in no position to deliver on any agenda whatsoever now. Unless he means just introducing bills that don't pass, in which case he can introduce all of those things himself tomorrow.

barfo
 
barfo said:
Maybe Democrats will listen to Bernie this time around, but since he's been a senator for 18 years and hasn't gotten any of these things done, I'm guessing his powers of persuasion won't be sufficient this time either. And also, the Democrats are in no position to deliver on any agenda whatsoever now. Unless he means just introducing bills that don't pass, in which case he can introduce all of those things himself tomorrow.

barfo
Click to expand...
It's not about Bernie. It's about the ideas. The reason Bernie hasn't had more success getting bills passed are the same reasons the US has so many problems. That should be clear to most people.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It's not about Bernie. It's about the ideas. The reason Bernie hasn't had more success getting bills passed are the same reasons the US has so many problems. That should be clear to most people.
Click to expand...

Bernie is the one who wrote that, so he's kind of relevant.

My point was not to attack Bernie, or his ideas, but to ask: how are democrats supposed to "deliver on this agenda"?

barfo
 
barfo said:
Bernie is the one who wrote that, so he's kind of relevant.

My point was not to attack Bernie, or his ideas, but to ask: how are democrats supposed to "deliver on this agenda"?

barfo
Click to expand...
They need to start focusing on those bullet points more and not worrying as much about other things. Those bullet points will improve pretty much everything. If something else needs to be specifically addressed show how these bullet points address that specific need.
 
barfo said:
Bernie is the one who wrote that, so he's kind of relevant.

My point was not to attack Bernie, or his ideas, but to ask: how are democrats supposed to "deliver on this agenda"?

barfo
Click to expand...

I think we've reached a point where the ability to deliver on the agenda isn't as big as just gaining the office.

First, no one delivers on their agenda. The Republicans obstructed Clinton, Obama and Biden to no end ... we have a 6-3 conservative SCOTUS because Mitch McConnell did things with his Senate leadership that never had been done before.

Then, of course, Trump either couldn't concentrate or just didn't have the skill to deliver on his agenda in his first term, beyond the judges.

But you have no means to even try to deliver on any of the agenda without holding the seat, and, even if you don't fulfill your promises, at least by holding office you keep the other side from fulfilling theirs.
 
PCmor7 said:
I think we've reached a point where the ability to deliver on the agenda isn't as big as just gaining the office.

First, no one delivers on their agenda. The Republicans obstructed Clinton, Obama and Biden to no end ... we have a 6-3 conservative SCOTUS because Mitch McConnell did things with his Senate leadership that never had been done before.

Then, of course, Trump either couldn't concentrate or just didn't have the skill to deliver on his agenda in his first term, beyond the judges.

But you have no means to even try to deliver on any of the agenda without holding the seat, and, even if you don't fulfill your promises, at least by holding office you keep the other side from fulfilling theirs.
Click to expand...
I think that's where Dems have been since Obama. I think they were there before Obama, but then Obama surprised them.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Democrats must choose: The elites or the working class
They can’t represent both.

443c70233d12738a649735609d37423c0cbfe0a2.avif


The results of the 2024 election have confirmed a reality that is too frequently denied by Democratic Party leaders and strategists: The American working class is angry — and for good reason.

They want to know why the very rich are getting much richer, and the CEOs of major corporations make almost 300 times more than their average employees, while weekly wages remain stagnant and 60 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

They want to know why corporate profits soar while companies shut down factories in America and move to low-wage countries.

They want to know why the food industry enjoys record breaking profits, while they can’t afford their grocery bills.

They want to know why they can’t afford to go to a doctor or pay for their prescription drugs, and worry about going bankrupt if they end up in a hospital.

Donald Trump won this election because he tapped into that anger.

Did he address any of these serious issues in a thoughtful or meaningful way?
Absolutely not.

What he did do was divert the festering anger in our country at a greedy and out-of-touch corporate elite into a politics that served his political goals and will end up further enriching his fellow billionaires.

Trump’s “genius” is his ability to divide the working class so that tens of millions of Americans will reject solidarity with their fellow workers and pave the way for huge tax breaks for the very rich and large corporations.

While Trump did talk about capping credit card interest rates at 10 percent, and a new trade policy with China, his fundamental explanation as to why the working class was struggling was that millions of illegal immigrants have invaded America and that we are now an “occupied country.”

In his pathologically dishonest world, undocumented immigrants are illegally participating in our elections and voting for Democrats. They are creating massive amounts of crime, driving wages down, and taking our jobs. They are getting free health care and other benefits that are denied to American citizens. They are even eating our pets.

That explanation is grossly racist, cruel, and fallacious. But it is an explanation.
And what do the Democrats have to say about the crises facing working families? What is their full-throated explanation, pounded away day after day in the media, in the halls of Congress, and in town meetings throughout the country as to why tens of millions of workers, in the richest country on earth, are struggling to put food on the table or pay the rent? Where is the deeply felt outrage that we are the only major country on earth not to guarantee health care for all as a human right while insurance and drug companies make huge profits?

How do they explain supporting billions of dollars in military aid to the right-wing extremist government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, which has created an unprecedented humanitarian disaster in Gaza that is causing massive malnutrition and starvation for thousands of children?
In my view, the Democrats lost this election because they ignored the justified anger of working class America and became the defenders of a rigged economic and political system.
This election was largely about class and change and the Democrats, in both cases, were often on the wrong side. As Jimmy Williams Jr., the president of the Painters Union, said, “The Democratic Party has continued to fail to prioritize a strong, working-class message that addresses issues that really matter to workers. The party did not make a positive case for why workers should vote for them, only that they were not Donald Trump. That’s not good enough anymore!”

As an Independent member of the US Senate, I caucus with the Democrats. In that capacity I have been proud to work with President Biden on one of the most ambitious pro-worker agendas in modern history.

We passed the American Rescue Plan to pull us out of the COVID-19 economic downturn; made historic investments in rebuilding our infrastructure and in transforming our energy system; began the process of rebuilding our manufacturing base; lowered the cost of prescription drugs and forgave student debt for five million Americans. Biden promised to be the most progressive president since FDR and, on domestic issues, he kept his word.
But, unlike FDR, these achievements are almost never discussed within the context of a grossly unfair economy that continues to fail ordinary Americans. Yes. In the past few years we have made some positive changes. We must acknowledge, however, that what we’ve done is nowhere near enough.

In 1936, in his second inaugural address, FDR spoke not only of his administration’s enormous achievements in combatting the Great Depression, but of the painful economic realities that millions of Americans were still experiencing.

Roosevelt’s words remain relevant today: “I see millions of families trying to live on incomes so meager that the pall of family disaster hangs over them day by day … I see millions denied education, recreation, and the opportunity to better their lot and the lot of their children … I see one-third of a nation ill-housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished.”

Of course, the world is today profoundly different than it was in 1936. We are not in an economic depression. Unemployment is relatively low. People are not facing starvation.
But the Democratic leadership must recognize that, in a rapidly changing economy, working families face an enormous amount of economic pain, anxiety and hopelessness — and they want change. The status quo is not working for them.

In politics you can’t fight something with nothing. The Democratic Party needs to determine which side it is on in the great economic struggle of our times, and it needs to provide a clear vision as to what it stands for. Either you stand with the powerful oligarchy of our country, or you stand with the working class. You can’t represent both.
While Democrats will be in the minority in the Senate and (probably) the House in the new Congress, they will still have the opportunity to bring forth a strong legislative agenda that addresses the needs of working families.

If Republicans choose to vote those bills down, the American working class will learn quickly enough as to which party represents them, and which party represents corporate greed.
In my view, here are some of the working class priorities that Democrats must fight for:
  • We must end Citizens United and stop billionaires from buying elections.
  • We must raise the $7.25 federal minimum wage to a living wage — at least $17 an hour.
  • We must pass the Protecting the Right to Organize Act to make it easier for workers to form unions and end illegal union busting.
  • We must protect senior citizens by increasing Social Security benefits and extending the solvency of the program by lifting the cap on taxable income.
  • We must bring back defined benefit pension plans so that workers can retire with security.
  • We must do what every other wealthy nation does and guarantee health care to all as a human right, beginning with the expansion of Medicare to cover home health care, dental, hearing, and vision.
  • We must cut prescription drug prices in half, no more than is paid in other countries.
  • We must provide guaranteed paid family and medical leave.
  • We must guarantee equal pay for equal work.
  • We must create fair trade policies that work for workers, not just corporate CEOs.
  • We must build 3 million units of low income and affordable housing.
  • We must make public colleges and universities tuition free, childcare affordable for all, and strengthen public education by paying teachers the salaries they deserve.
  • We must adopt a progressive tax system which addresses the massive income and wealth inequality we are experiencing by demanding that the very wealthy start paying their fair share of taxes.
  • We must save taxpayer dollars by ending the massive waste, fraud and abuse that exists in the Pentagon.

These are extremely popular ideas. The Democratic Party would do well to listen to the clear directive of American voters, and deliver. The simple fact is: if you stand with working people, they will stand with you. In my view, if Democrats deliver on an agenda like this, they can win back the working class of our country and the White House.
Bernie Sanders is an Independent US senator from Vermont.
Click to expand...
Stand with working class like Trump does?
 
So we’ve got an anti vax guy running health
We’ve got the guy guilty of Medicare fraud as senate majority leader
We’ve got a guy who attended a white supremacist conference in charge of the border
We’ve got Elon arm and arm with Trump in control of the worlds largest social media platform

But please do go on how Kamala really should have been more clear on the working class this is her fault

There’s no law and order. MAGA has lied and their uneducated bought all of it. Poor people think everything is going to miraculously get better. Kamala should have tried to explain herself better that would have changed everything.
 
Here's another example of the difference between the right and the left. Podcaster Nick Fuentest trolls peopleon X saying "Your body my choice", and so they dox him, send him death threats and show up at his house.

A deranged lady shows up tries to get into his house and he pepper sprays her and pushes her off the porch. One of these lefties is going to end up getting killed, because their little tribe and echo chamber encourage engaging in this kind of behavior. This stupid broad got off easy.
 
Phatguysrule said:
What is the intent of a comment like this? I don't understand.
Click to expand...
The constant criticism and nit picking when it’s irrelevant. The things you and others keep claiming she should have done to “win”, aren’t done by Trump. It makes zero sense.
 
Just an FYI as we figure out how to deport immigrants ... right now 40,000 foreign nationals serve in the U.S. military.
 
beast blazer said:
Here's another example of the difference between the right and the left. Podcaster Nick Fuentest trolls peopleon X saying "Your body my choice", and so they dox him, send him death threats and show up at his house.

A deranged lady shows up and he pepper sprays her and pushes her off the porch. One of these lefties is going to end up getting killed, because their little tribe and echo chamber encourage engaging in this kind of behavior.
Click to expand...

Oh well. I’m sad :(
 
beast blazer said:
Here's another example of the difference between the right and the left. Podcaster Nick Fuentest trolls peopleon X saying "Your body my choice", and so they dox him, send him death threats and show up at his house.

A deranged lady shows up and he pepper sprays her and pushes her off the porch. One of these lefties is going to end up getting killed, because their little tribe and echo chamber encourage engaging in this kind of behavior.
Click to expand...


Doxing for making jokes about raping women ... and you're outraged about the doxing.

Wow.
 
beast blazer said:
Here's another example of the difference between the right and the left. Podcaster Nick Fuentest trolls peopleon X saying "Your body my choice", and so they dox him, send him death threats and show up at his house.

A deranged lady shows up tries to get into his house and he pepper sprays her and pushes her off the porch. One of these lefties is going to end up getting killed, because their little tribe and echo chamber encourage engaging in this kind of behavior. This stupid broad got off easy.
Click to expand...


You REALLLLLY don't wanna go down this rabbit hole.

I beg of you, you're gonna get destroyed by examples. Lol.

Also, stop supporting people who want to take away rights of humans. And don't back peddle, you support taking away their rights by voting for Trump.
 
PCmor7 said:
Just an FYI as we figure out how to deport immigrants ... right now 40,000 foreign nationals serve in the U.S. military.
Click to expand...

Well, should be easy for the military to deport them, then.

"Soldier, you've been reassigned to a "base" in Guatamala - your assignment is to live among the people there until told otherwise"

barfo
 
PCmor7 said:
Doxing for making jokes about raping women ... and you're outraged about the doxing.

Wow.
Click to expand...
Oh Lordy, you lefty's warp and exaggerate everything.

It was about abortion, not rape. A play on the "My body, my choice" mantra.
 
GoZers said:
The constant criticism and nit picking when it’s irrelevant. The things you and others keep claiming she should have done to “win”, aren’t done by Trump. It makes zero sense.
Click to expand...
She isn't trying to get MAGA voters to vote for her. That's never going to happen. They are brainwashed and think they will somebody be billionaires who can take advantage of the plebs as well.

She is trying to not turn off the people who will vote against her and excite the ones who don't care enough to show up at all.

But the reality is that Kamala can't do any of that because she has proven she stands for whatever the wealthy DNC donors want her to stand for.
 
Strenuus said:
You REALLLLLY don't wanna go down this rabbit hole.

I beg of you, you're gonna get destroyed by examples. Lol.

Also, stop supporting people who want to take away rights of humans. And don't back peddle, you support taking away their rights by voting for Trump.
Click to expand...

I did support the repeal of Roe V Wade. Even liberal hero, Supreme Court judge Ruth Bader Ginsburg was critical of it.

Trump didn't "take away women's rights". That was a decision by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court does not exist to pass legislation.

But you lefties don't really understand our constitution, or how government works, you just regurgitate the BS your pundits spew out you. "Twump takes away women's rights! Ooooh, orange man bad!"
 
Phatguysrule said:
They need to start focusing on those bullet points more and not worrying as much about other things. Those bullet points will improve pretty much everything. If something else needs to be specifically addressed show how these bullet points address that specific need.
Click to expand...
  • Do bullet points actually improve anything?
  • Is this thread better now that it has bullet points?
If instead you meant that making those bullet points reality would make things better, then of course I agree.
  • But how are Democrats supposed to do that now?
  • What was the point of Bernie saying that Democrats needed to deliver on those bullet points?
  • Why not just use magic to fix things, if we aren't going to pay any attention to reality?
barfo
 
barfo said:
  • Do bullet points actually improve anything?
  • Is this thread better now that it has bullet points?
If instead you meant that making those bullet points reality would make things better, then of course I agree.
  • But how are Democrats supposed to do that now?
  • What was the point of Bernie saying that Democrats needed to deliver on those bullet points?
  • Why not just use magic to fix things, if we aren't going to pay any attention to reality?
barfo
Click to expand...
To encourage Democrats to start changing and focusing their message and strategy.

You can build a very large coalition whch supports all of those bullet points. Focus on those as solutions for pretty much any problem people want to fix.
 
PCmor7 said:
Doxing for making jokes about raping women ... and you're outraged about the doxing.

Wow.
Click to expand...

You're deranged. "A lady tries to invade someone's house because she doesn't like when he posted on Twitter, and you're defending the person who defended his HOME?!"

We're going to need a national divorce.
 
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