Official Around the NBA - March Edition!

[KingSpeed]

And by the way, Marc Gasol didn't make the 2014 All Star team so even the coaches side with me. He's nothung special. He only got in this year because the fans voted for him.

 

[KingSpeed]

Mario Chalmers has averaged more points in the NBA finals than Damian Lillard has ever averaged.
Obviously Chalmers is better than Lillard.
SMFH

What are you talking about? You've lost your mind. I never said anything about what anyone has averaged in the NBA Finals.

 

[KingSpeed]

2014 Coaches pick for All Star reserve big men: Aldridge, Dirk. and Howard. Then, as a replacement, the league picked Anthony Davis. So the people in the know around the league, actual coaches who know more than you or I, did not pick Marc Gasol to be an All Star.

 

[Duvalier]

King please stop...you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[KingSpeed]

Marc Gasol didn't make 2013 All Star game either. ZACH RANDOLPH did. Gasol has only gotten in once and it was because the fans picked him.

 

[KingSpeed]

King please stop...you're embarrassing yourself.

honkicracker has lost his mind. He doesn't even make sense. The coaches don't think Gasol is a top big man but apparently he deserves to be MVP?

 

[julius]

What are you talking about? You've lost your mind. I never said anything about what anyone has averaged in the NBA Finals.

its that you make false equivalences alllllll the fucking time Eric.

 

[KingSpeed]

Gasol is #8. Teague is more worthy. Aldridge is too, of course.
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/featur...-ladder-four-worthy-mvp-candidates/index.html

 

[KingSpeed]

#8 is a little high too. I'd have DeAndre Jordan up there on the list.

 

[KingSpeed]

its that you make false equivalences alllllll the fucking time Eric.

I'm not quite sure equivalences is a word. And it certainly doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[blue32]

honkicracker has lost his mind. He doesn't even make sense. The coaches don't think Gasol is a top big man but apparently he deserves to be MVP?

Jus' chill bruh. You lost this one.

Well fought. But time to concede.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

And by the way, Marc Gasol didn't make the 2014 All Star team so even the coaches side with me. He's nothung special. He only got in this year because the fans voted for him.

I wasn't aware that was a prerequisite for all-star status...

 

[julius]

I'm not quite sure equivalences is a word. And it certainly doesn't mean what you think it does.

Actually, it means exactly what I think it means.

the quality or state of being alike : the quality or state of having the same value, function, meaning, etc."

and

a : the state or property of being equivalent
b : the relation holding between two statements if they are either both true or both false so that to affirm one and to deny the other would result in a contradiction

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equivalences

You're probably just used to people saying "equivalencies" instead. So please, tell me how that's not a word, and that it doesn't mean exactly what the context of what I wrote meant.

Learn to define, then post.

 

[Natebishop3]

ITT: People falling into Kingspeed's trap

 

[magnifier661]

I didn't. Maybe it was mags.

You tell me what you guys are arguing and I will tell you if I said it. I don't usually go full Kingspeed, but when I do, every team sux but the Blazers

 

[magnifier661]

Okay I will chime in. Actually Kingspeed does has a point. Gasol is an exceptional player, but Lambeer was better. Anyone that disagrees was probably not old enough to see how good he was in person.

As for Gasol and the MVP award. That would be a complete joke. Gasol makes his team better, but he's no MVP. MVP centers must have more than 8 rebounds and definitely have more than 2 blocks a game.

I would be laughing my ass off if he won it.

 

[H.C.]

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=1&p1=gasolma01&p2=laimbbi01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I personally don't believe you can compare players from the first game ever in the NBA on November 1st 1946 to players of today... For per game averages or career highs alone.
The game has changed too much.. Per game averages or career highs can't really compare.. Especially when it's a big in todays game vs a big in any other era. I don't really need to get into why... Because people who know basketball will understand and the casual fan.. who only ever looks at per game averages, and draws their opinion from media hype never will. That's fine.

But looking at the advanced stats, as well as playoff advanced stats. Laimbeer doesn't hold a lot of wins over Gasol.
One could make the arguement that if you moved Laimbeer to the Grizz of today.. The Grizz wouldn't be winning like that are.. And will continue to.
But if you moved Gasol to the Pistons when they were winning division titles, conference championships, and championships... It wouldn't really change with as skilled as Gasol is. I was never able to watch Laimbeer play in his hayday. But that doesn't mean I'm far from ignorant on the NBA game.
There mere fact that Gasol is slightly under The Dream in advanced numbers shows just how good he is.

I've put up a valid statements with stats to backup what I have to say. I even gave reading material.
However the only thing that's come back at me is... opinion, calling me a child, young, in my 20's, fuck you, etc etc. I was trying to be nice until about my 3rd post on this topic. Oh can't forget game high stats. Reggie Evans has had pretty gaudy numbers as well... at times...

Does Gasol deserve the MVP? I've stated in a previous post that IMO he does and gave reasons why. I won't continue to repeat myself, and beat a dead horse.

 

[BlazerBeav]

With the change in the rules over the past decade, big men can't win the MVP - the game has been slanted towards the guards.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Yeah, it's pretty arbitrary to state that if a player at a particular position doesn't meet a particular statistical benchmark, that automatically disqualifies him from MVP consideration. One's stats and contribution to his team should be looked at as a whole, not as a bunch of individual disconnected data points.

Gasol facilitates his team's offense, anchors his team's defense, and is (IMO) the most important player on that team. I personally wouldn't put him at the top of the MVP standings, but he's definitely worthy to be in the conversation.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

On a related note, though, who would you say is "more valuable"--Marc Gasol or Deandre Jordan? One has stats more befitting a traditional center (rebounds, blocks, high FG%) but a much lower offensive output; the other has a much stronger and more versatile offensive game (both scoring and passing) and is more focused on team defense, but is a bit lacking in the traditional center stats. Jordan's win shares are higher, but Gasol's box-plus-minus is better, and their VORP's are pretty similar.

 

[H.C.]

On a related note, though, who would you say is "more valuable"--Marc Gasol or Deandre Jordan? One has stats more befitting a traditional center (rebounds, blocks, high FG%) but a much lower offensive output; the other has a much stronger and more versatile offensive game (both scoring and passing) and is more focused on team defense, but is a bit lacking in the traditional center stats. Jordan's win shares are higher, but Gasol's box-plus-minus is better, and their VORP's are pretty similar.

I don't really think Gasol and Jordan are comparable at all.
It's crazy how different players at the same position play.
With CP3, Jordan is a perfect fit for him. Just like Tyson Chandler was in New Orleans.
I have a high opinion of CP3 but.. I'm not sure if he could play with Gasol.
CP3's usage rate especially in the playoffs is crazy high. To properly take advantage of Gasol's skill set.. I believe he needs to have offense ran through him.
Just like CP3 is at his best when he has the ball in his hands and is creating for himself or others.

I honestly believe if Gasol and Jordan swapped teams... Both teams would be hurt by it greatly.
Gasol isn't as athletic as Jordan... But isn't a slouch defensively, they just play defense different.
One is fundamentally sound and with his size.
Other is with his athleticism and quickness.

Clippers would be a better free throw shooting team w/ Gasol tho

 

[PDXFonz]

Wouldn't you bring in McGee just to have him. I mean even if you only play him for one possession on defense, and he never actually touches the ball except for when he swats it away from the rim.

My question is how cheap could we realistically sign him for?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't really think Gasol and Jordan are comparable at all.
It's crazy how different players at the same position play.
With CP3, Jordan is a perfect fit for him. Just like Tyson Chandler was in New Orleans.
I have a high opinion of CP3 but.. I'm not sure if he could play with Gasol.
CP3's usage rate especially in the playoffs is crazy high. To properly take advantage of Gasol's skill set.. I believe he needs to have offense ran through him.
Just like CP3 is at his best when he has the ball in his hands and is creating for himself or others.

I honestly believe if Gasol and Jordan swapped teams... Both teams would be hurt by it greatly.
Gasol isn't as athletic as Jordan... But isn't a slouch defensively, they just play defense different.
One is fundamentally sound and with his size.
Other is with his athleticism and quickness.

Clippers would be a better free throw shooting team w/ Gasol tho

That was kind of the point, that they are completely different players, and both are highly valuable to their teams. The question was which would you say is more valuable, in terms of "MVP" consideration?

 

[Boise Blazer]

Wouldn't you bring in McGee just to have him. I mean even if you only play him for one possession on defense, and he never actually touches the ball except for when he swats it away from the rim.

My question is how cheap could we realistically sign him for?

Cheap yes, but competing with 10 other teams, not as cheap

 

[H.C.]

That was kind of the point, that they are completely different players, and both are highly valuable to their teams. The question was which would you say is more valuable, in terms of "MVP" consideration?

I personally believe Gasol is more important to the Grizz than DJ is to the clippers.
Free throw % aside.

In terms of pure basketball skill Gasol is hands down the better basketball player.
Once DJ loses his athleticism he's prolly done. Won't be able to continue like Jermane did, he might even break down like Mutombo eventually dd.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Josh Smith wasn't traded. He was CUT cuz he sucks.

Thanks for reminding me the Rockets got Smith for nothing. I'm not a fan of Smith (too many forced shots and unforced TOVs), but they are 10 games over .500 since signing him. He's averaging 11.7 ppg off their bench and they have passed us in the standings. And, they did most of that without Dwight Howard.

The Smith signing has hardly been the disaster you claim.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Wouldn't you bring in McGee just to have him. I mean even if you only play him for one possession on defense, and he never actually touches the ball except for when he swats it away from the rim.

No, absolutely not, because that's not what would happen. In a real game, if an opponent drove anywhere near the lane, McGee would leave his man wide open under the basket while he attempted to block a shot he had no chance of blocking. This would result in one of two things: the driving opponent would shoot and miss and McGee's man would get the offensive put back; or the driving opponent would see McGee flying at him and throw an ally oop to McGee's man for an easy, uncontested dunk.

There is a lot more to defense than blocking shots. McGee made his reputation as a "great" shot blocker. Unfortunately, that has made him think he can block EVERY shot within 15 feet of the basket. He habitually leaves his man to go for blocks. In spite of all the blocked shots, he's one of the worst defensive players in the league. He leaves his man, he leaves his feet and he doesn't box out. If I needed a defensive stop, he'd be one of the last people I'd want on the floor. I'd gladly take either Robin Lopez or Joel Freeland over Javale McGee with the game on the line. They will both play solid low post defense and box out their man to secure the defensive rebound.

BNM

 

[H.C.]

That was kind of the point, that they are completely different players, and both are highly valuable to their teams. The question was which would you say is more valuable, in terms of "MVP" consideration?

I personally believe Gasol is more important to the Grizz than DJ is to the clippers.
Free throw % aside.

In terms of pure basketball skill Gasol is hands down the better basketball player.
Once DJ loses his athleticism he's prolly done. Won't be able to continue like Jermane did, he might even break down like Mutombo eventually dd.

I would like to ad as well.
Everyone has seen how bad the Grizz were without Gasol last year, and what they did when he came back healthy.
With the pieces around DJ.. While he's important to his team... He is playing with CP3, and Blake Griffin.
CP3, and Griffin are the #1 and #2 options on that team. DJ can't get his own shot, outside of an offensive rebound.
You can't give it to him down on the block and have him create offense... He's very one dimensional offensively...
Is he even the #5 offensive option on his team? IDK. He's a defensive player only, who can dunk. Good at it but...
If you put Dalembert on the clippers instead of DJ... Are they really that much worse?

Gasol is far from one dimensional offensively, and he's a former defensive player of the year...
Gasol is the player on the Grizz that is the difference maker, when you take into account their W/L record the most + is the best player on the Grizz.

 

[Boob-No-More]

DJ can't get his own shot, outside of an offensive rebound.
You can't give it to him down on the block and have him create offense...

Sure you can... for the other team.

I've always believed you should be charged a TOV for every two FTs you miss. When the other team is intentionally fouling you for possession and you miss more than half your FTs, you are hurting your team.

BNM

 

[Strenuus]

Damn... Butler is out 3-6 weeks.