Official Game Thread: New York @ Sacramento

[Mr. J]

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@

Knicks (0-5) @ Kings (2-4)</div>


<div align="center"><font color="darkorange">Knicks Starting Lineup</font></div>
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PG: Stephon Marbury
SG: Jamal Crawford
SF: Quentin Richardson
PF: Antonio Davis
C: Eddy Curry

<div align="center"><font color="Indigo">Kings Starting Lineup</font></div>
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PG: Mike Bibby
SG: Bonzi Wells
SF: Peja Stojakovic
PF: Shareef Abdur-Rahim
C: Brad Miller

<div align="center"><font color="darkorange">Knicks Backcourt</font></div>

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and

VS.

and

Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford vs. Mike Bibby and Bonzi Wells</div>
The backcourt duo of Stephon Marbury and Jamal Crawford never fails top put points on the board (no matter how bad the percentage is), but their defense, although improved, hasn?t been up to the level Brown would have liked. Last game against Golden State, the Warriors? dynamic duo of Baron Davis and Jason Richardson tore up the Knicks? perimeter defense, especially Jamal Crawford who yielded 24 points and 6 rebounds to Jason Richardson. Although the Bibby and Bonzi aren?t as quick nor as explosive as the backcourt of Golden State, both Marbury and Crawford will have to still bring their A games on the defensive end. Anything less could easily lead to them playing lackadaisical. Defense, as usual, will be the key to this backcourt match-up for the Knicks. If they cannot play sufficient defense and allow dribble penetration, expect early foul trouble to an already foul-prone Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis. Although the Knicks do have Channing Frye on the bench, he is foul-prone as well and Jerome James likely won?t be playing this game being on the inactive list and all.

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and

VS.

and

Antonio Davis, Eddy Curry, and Quentin Richardson</div>
<div align="center">vs.</div>
<div align="center">Shareef-Abdur-Rahim, Brad Miller, and Peja Stojakovic</div>
This will be a tough match-up for the Knicks? frontcourt. The former California bear, Shareef-Abdur-Rahim, returns to Cali to provide the Kings with their best post presence they?ve had since Chris Webber. What makes this frontcourt dangerous is its versatility and how well they compliment each other. Shareef is capable of drawing double-teams even at his age, and when he does so, he can have Brad Miller open for a free throw line jumper, or even worse, an open Peja for three. Just like the match-up at backcourt, the frontcourt will need to focus on defense. Antonio Davis is an adept low-post defender and has a body for battle in the paint, but at age 37, he?s clearly lost some of his explosiveness. Their first option in the paint is Abdur-Rahim and if he?s played properly can disrupt the whole Sacramento Kings offense. Eddy Curry?s defense on Brad Miller, a two-time all-star, will need to be tightened up a notch. Curry needs to be aware of Brad?s scouting report and realize many of his points come from the midrange area. It might be out of Curry?s comfort zone on defense, but he?s agile enough to guard Miller on the perimeter. Finally, Stojakovic needs to be played tightly by Richardson. Peja is a true threat from the perimeter. Despite his prowess as a long-range shooter, Stojakovic still struggles to create his own shot. If Richardson makes Stojakovic a non-factor in the game, one dimension of the Kings offense will be shut down. Richardson should have his way on defense considering Stojakovic is one of the league?s worst defenders at the small forward position, although he can be a bit intimidating being 6-10 and all.



Prediction: The Knicks have been losing too much. I'll take them 105-100. Btw, sorry for the choppy preview. That's all I can do with my limited time on this. I have no idea when I'll be able to use it again.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

Hey MrJ where have you been?? Even in limited time you make great previews although your prediction is off. Bonzi Wells will abuse Crawford in the low post which will open things up on the perimeter for the Kings. Peja and Brad Miller will get open shots all night long so they'll likely have big scoring games. I also have my doubts about whether or not Marbury can contain Bibby. Miller just may the best defender Curry has gone up against so I dont think Curry will have a huge game. The Kings also have a nice bench so they probably wont lose any steam when the starters leave. I dont see any clear cut advantage for the Knicks anywhere plus we havent won in Sacramento for a very long time so I have the Knicks losing in a high scoring affair, 103-96. This Knicks team may make history in a very bad way.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Buckets]

I agree with Larry, when you think about it this is a very poorly assembled roster, because of that Id ont think even Larry Brown could make this team a winner that gets past the first round of the playoffs if that unless they swing a big trade.

Back to the game, I think this will be the first Knicks win of the season because from what I've seen the Kings are really dissapointing me thus far. They look great on paper but not as good in real life. 101-93, Knicks and Eddy Curry will be a factor.

 

[TnNeG]

we got our first win! an anticipated win... but im happy were out of the 0-5 spot.

 

[Knicks Analyst]

What a great game this was. Ariza was absolutely brilliant last night, and even Larry let him play 34 minutes. Ariza was playing so well, that there was no excuse to sit him. Davis looked pretty damn weak last night, that's the way I saw it/ Marbury shot well (7/11) and had seven assists. Frye looked good in his 19 minutes (thank you, Larry and Herb!).

I've always hated Malik since he's gotten here. But now I just hate the midget more and more. He's really not much. And don't feed me that garbage about his defense. He's really an overrated defender, you don't have to listen so closely to Mike Breen's biased announcing. The guy is trash.

 

[Bleed Green]

Yes, hey guys lets bring out the champagne. LoL. It was a great game played by the knicks. They made a huge lead in the 1st half and didnt let the kings comeback even though they made several runs. Marbury and Crawford once again had TO problems but its getting better. Frye is one of the elite rookies. He's like a young kt-40 but not as good defender and rebounder but he's a better scorer. Curry had a good game although he committed 3 offensive fouls. Ariza is the MVP of this game. He made sparks and played excellent defense. Ariza can have a serious run of the 6th man. All in All i thought the officiating was horrible. They called Malik for traveling when Brad tripped him, they called a blocking foul when Brad used his elbows to past curry, they called no fouls on Steph, they called an offensive foul on crawford's and1. All sorts of calls against the knicks. They still get out with a W. Jazz next.

 

[Equint77]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GotSkillz92:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, hey guys lets bring out the champagne. LoL. It was a great game played by the knicks. They made a huge lead in the 1st half and didnt let the kings comeback even though they made several runs. Marbury and Crawford once again had TO problems but its getting better. <font color=""Red"">Frye is one of the elite rookies. He's like a young kt-40 but not as good defender and rebounder but he's a better scorer</font>. Curry had a good game although he committed 3 offensive fouls. <font color=""Navy"">Ariza is the MVP of this game. He made sparks and played excellent defense.</font> Ariza can have a serious run of the 6th man. All in All i thought the officiating was horrible. They called Malik for traveling when Brad tripped him, they called a blocking foul when Brad used his elbows to past curry, they called no fouls on Steph, they called an offensive foul on crawford's and1. All sorts of calls against the knicks. They still get out with a W. Jazz next.</div>

I wonder what H20 and Jose think about Frye so far. He's averaging 10 points and 6 rebounds through 6 games. He's got the most consistant jumpshot from all our front court players.. and hustles.. and as we saw last night, runs the floor well.

And I 100% agree about Ariza. He makes things happen on the court. I love his hustle and how hard he plays defense. And it was great hearing Clyde say what I've said all along.... he's a jumpshot away from being a star in the league.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Equint77:</div><div class="quote_post">I wonder what H20 and Jose think about Frye so far. He's averaging 10 points and 6 rebounds through 6 games. He's got the most consistant jumpshot from all our front court players.. and hustles.. and as we saw last night, runs the floor well.

And I 100% agree about Ariza. He makes things happen on the court. I love his hustle and how hard he plays defense. And it was great hearing Clyde say what I've said all along.... he's a jumpshot away from being a star in the league.</div>

Well since you asked for me I'll answer your question. I think Frye was a waste of a lottery pick. A big man selected in the lottery should be able to get the ball in the low post, back his man down and score, not shoot jumpshots unless of course that big man happens to be Dirk Nowitzki but that's another story. My problem with Frye is that any big man with a jumpshot could score as many points as he has(or nearly as many) and I wouldnt use a lottery pick on a jumpshooting big man. Period. Especially when there's someone who could potentially be the next Shaq still on the draft board! Short of developing a post up game there's nothing he can do to make him worth that lottery pick in my eyes but if he keeps this up I might stop complaining about it. Although I must say he's rebounding better than I thought he would. By the way Ariza plays the same kind of game as Shandon Anderson did when he played in Utah(which is good) and Peja is a lousy defender.

It was a great game but dont break out the champagne just yet. I hate to mention it but we are still 1-5 and our one win came against the seriously underachieving Kings. So let's save the celebrating for when we beat a quality or close to quality opponent.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[STC]

Frye brings a smile to my face everytime he steps onto the court.

You can see working with Mark Aguirre is already paying off. Against GS, he begged for the ball in the post, power dribbled towards the baseline, came back and shot a lefty hook. I thought he couldn't play with his back towards the basket!?

And the other player is Ariza. Man, his statline does not reflect what he brings to the floor. He's officially the king of the putback dunk. And he's a good defender. He just picks up stupid ticky tack fouls.

I think Q is still hurting. Man, we need that dead eye shooter in any form or fashion.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">Frye brings a smile to my face everytime he steps onto the court.

You can see working with Mark Aguirre is already paying off. Against GS, he begged for the ball in the post, power dribbled towards the baseline, came back and shot a lefty hook. I thought he couldn't play with his back towards the basket!?

And the other player is Ariza. Man, his statline does not reflect what he brings to the floor. He's officially the king of the putback dunk. And he's a good defender. He just picks up stupid ticky tack fouls.

I think Q is still hurting. Man, we need that dead eye shooter in any form or fashion.</div>

So you're okay with using a lottery pick to get a Michael Doleac, Mevedenko(sp?), Christian Laettner or Udonis Haslem? We'll I'm not. And who cant score on Chris Taft? He's not exactly a force on the defense. By the way since when is 36% "dead eye" shooting?

 

[STC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">So you're okay with using a lottery pick to get a Michael Doleac, Mevedenko(sp?), Christian Laettner or Udonis Haslem? We'll I'm not. And who cant score on Chris Taft? He's not exactly a force on the defense. By the way since when is 36% "dead eye" shooting?</div>

Read my post.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting STCBBall3:</div><div class="quote_post">Read my post.</div>

Sarcasm? If it was sarcasm you'll have to excuse me. It's kind of hard to detect sarcasm when it's being typed. This wouldnt have been the first time someone called Richardson a good shooter or Frye a great pick. If you're not being sarcastic then...

Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[STC]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">

Sarcasm? If it was sarcasm you'll have to excuse me. It's kind of hard to detect sarcasm when it's being typed. This wouldnt have been the first time someone called Richardson a good shooter or Frye a great pick. If you're not being sarcastic then...

Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>
First of all, I never said Richardson was a good shooter.

I said we NEED a dead eye shooter.

Second, put aside how you felt about the decisions that Iisah has made, and look at how Channing Frye could improve and has done well with that opportunities he's had.

Never once said Q was a great shooter or Frye was a great pick.

 

[Equint77]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">Well since you asked for me I'll answer your question. I think Frye was a waste of a lottery pick. A big man selected in the lottery should be able to get the ball in the low post, back his man down and score, not shoot jumpshots unless of course that big man happens to be Dirk Nowitzki but that's another story. My problem with Frye is that any big man with a jumpshot could score as many points as he has(or nearly as many) and I wouldnt use a lottery pick on a jumpshooting big man. Period. Especially when there's someone who could potentially be the next Shaq still on the draft board! Short of developing a post up game there's nothing he can do to make him worth that lottery pick in my eyes but if he keeps this up I might stop complaining about it. Although I must say he's rebounding better than I thought he would. By the way Ariza plays the same kind of game as Shandon Anderson did when he played in Utah(which is good) and Peja is a lousy defender.
It was a great game but dont break out the champagne just yet. I hate to mention it but we are still 1-5 and our one win came against the seriously underachieving Kings. So let's save the celebrating for when we beat a quality or close to quality opponent.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.</div>

Call me crazy but I can see him developing a post game.. he's shown he's pretty good around the basket with bank shots and spin moves. They're not calling plays for him to post up.. so most of the time he will end up spotting up. It's still early in the season but come on H20.... he is contributing.. maybe not in the fashion you want him to but he's doing his job. I hope he gets post up plays called for him eventually cause I think he can work around the basket.

And I still have my doubts about Bynum.

Ugh.. you compared Trevor to Shandon? I guess they have similar games but luckily Ariza has more of an upside than Anderson ever did. Bottom line is he's a major player off the bench and he keeps on proving it game after game.

And yeah it's one win.. but it's something to build on.. for the first time the team held it's ground when the other team made it's run. Nate still had his bad moments but he seems to be a good on the ball pressure defender... especially when it's full court.

I'm just glad we got one in the books... and with AK out tonight... who knows... we may have 2.

 

[NJNetz]

Who would of thought that out of all the teams, Knicks would beat the Kings. I think it was a great game for the Knicks and this win will probably bring more confidence to them.

 

[Equint77]

I also thought about this.

H20... with Curry being in the low post... isn't it good for him to have a PF who can shoot from the outside to compliment his game?

Frye has a jumpshot which can keep Curry from being doubled.. and if Eddy can learn how to pass out the post.. he can hit Channing for the jump shot.

I think it works out rather than having 2 post players and no room for either to work in.

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Equint77:</div><div class="quote_post">Call me crazy but I can see him developing a post game.. he's shown he's pretty good around the basket with bank shots and spin moves. They're not calling plays for him to post up.. so most of the time he will end up spotting up. It's still early in the season but come on H20.... he is contributing.. maybe not in the fashion you want him to but he's doing his job. I hope he gets post up plays called for him eventually cause I think he can work around the basket.

And I still have my doubts about Bynum.

Ugh.. you compared Trevor to Shandon? I guess they have similar games but luckily Ariza has more of an upside than Anderson ever did. Bottom line is he's a major player off the bench and he keeps on proving it game after game.

And yeah it's one win.. but it's something to build on.. for the first time the team held it's ground when the other team made it's run. Nate still had his bad moments but he seems to be a good on the ball pressure defender... especially when it's full court.

I'm just glad we got one in the books... and with AK out tonight... who knows... we may have 2.</div>

You're right Frye is contributing despite the fact he went too high in the draft. And like I said if Frye keeps this good play up I wont complain or say anything negative about him. As for Bynum I have my doubts as well but you dont pass up someone who could be the next Shaq.

I must be the only person who saw Shandon Anderson play in Utah. He was a pretty good player back then. Ariza plays almost the exact same game as him: Good defense, weak jumpshot, excelling in transition. I hope he ends up helping the Knicks more than Anderson did.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Equint77:</div><div class="quote_post">I also thought about this.

H20... with Curry being in the low post... isn't it good for him to have a PF who can shoot from the outside to compliment his game?

Frye has a jumpshot which can keep Curry from being doubled.. and if Eddy can learn how to pass out the post.. he can hit Channing for the jump shot.

I think it works out rather than having 2 post players and no room for either to work in.</div>

I dont know. I guess that's true but Isiah Thomas didnt know he was going to get Curry when he drafted Frye. And even if he knew he was going to get Curry he could have gotten another jumpshooting big man without using our lottery pick. But I personally would rather have two big bodies who can bang in the paint and score in the low post but that's just me.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Equint77]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">You're right Frye is contributing despite the fact he went too high in the draft. And like I said if Frye keeps this good play up I wont complain or say anything negative about him. As for Bynum I have my doubts as well but you dont pass up someone who could be the next Shaq.

I must be the only person who saw Shandon Anderson play in Utah. He was a pretty good player back then. Ariza plays almost the exact same game as him: Good defense, weak jumpshot, excelling in transition. I hope he ends up helping the Knicks more than Anderson did. </div>

Diogu, Bynum, Vasquez and May all went after Channing... you're gonna tell me you'd take them instead? That's all through 13.. Where are they? May is the only one getting a run now.. but he doesn't nearly have the offensive game Channing does. Plus for some reason.. he always looks out of shape to me. Hell Andrew can't even get PT on a team with no low post threat... unless you count Mihm?

What Trevor has done these last 7 games is probably as much if not more signicant than anything Shandon ever did in NY.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">
I dont know. I guess that's true but Isiah Thomas didnt know he was going to get Curry when he drafted Frye. And even if he knew he was going to get Curry he could have gotten another jumpshooting big man without using our lottery pick. But I personally would rather have two big bodies who can bang in the paint and score in the low post but that's just me.

</div>

LOL.. does it really matter if he did or didn't know? The Knicks got Curry and now have Channing who will eventually play PF along side him. I don't think it matters how they got him or how it's turned out... the fact that we have both and both have games to compliment each other is enough to just let things be and see where they go. And what do you mean another jumpshooting big man? Who else is there? Malik?

AD?

...

But I hear what you're saying and having 2 bangers in the post is a good thing to have... but how often does that work?

 

[Tribute to H2O]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Equint77:</div><div class="quote_post">Diogu, Bynum, Vasquez and May all went after Channing... you're gonna tell me you'd take them instead? That's all through 13.. Where are they? May is the only one getting a run now.. but he doesn't nearly have the offensive game Channing does. Plus for some reason.. he always looks out of shape to me. Hell Andrew can't even get PT on a team with no low post threat... unless you count Mihm?

What Trevor has done these last 7 games is probably as much if not more signicant than anything Shandon ever did in NY.</div>

Vasques would be getting minutes if he didnt go back overseas but I wouldnt have wanted him either. He plays the same sort of game except he didnt have the soft label on him and is more athletic. May is a much better low post scorer and a better rebounder. The Lakers were getting Bynum no matter what. Everyone knew Bynum was a project and wouldnt get minutes this season(like McGrady in his first few seasons) but he's a project worth waiting on(I'd wait four seasons for the next Shaq).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Equint77:</div><div class="quote_post">LOL.. does it really matter if he did or didn't know? The Knicks got Curry and now have Channing who will eventually play PF along side him. I don't think it matters how they got him or how it's turned out... the fact that we have both and both have games to compliment each other is enough to just let things be and see where they go. And what do you mean another jumpshooting big man? Who else is there? Malik?

AD?

...

But I hear what you're saying and having 2 bangers in the post is a good thing to have... but how often does that work?</div>

Sure it matters if he did or didnt know. If he didnt know he was going to get Curry then it was a bad move but he got lucky and was able to get Curry. Next time he makes a dumb move he might not be so lucky. Michael Doleac, Mevedenko, Darius Songaila just to name a few, would have been much cheaper than our lottery pick.

McHale and Parish worked pretty well together I think.


Anyway I think Isiah Thomas should be fired.

 

[Bleed Green]

[quote name='Tribute to H2O']Vasques would be getting minutes if he didnt go back overseas but I wouldnt have wanted him either. He plays the same sort of game except he didnt have the soft label on him and is more athletic. May is a much better low post scorer and a better rebounder. The Lakers were getting Bynum no matter what. Everyone knew Bynum was a project and wouldnt get minutes this season(like McGrady in his first few seasons) but he's a project worth waiting on(I'd wait four seasons for the next Shaq).

I cant believe you're still trashing Frye. What else do you want from Channing? He's been our leading scorer two games and a row. Hes averaging 11-5 in 20 minutes. Imagine what he can do with 30 or 35. Dont call vasquez better when he's not even playing in the nba, instead he got scared and stayed overseas. May and Frye's stats are very similar. Theyre basically playing the same way with the same stats. You cant say May is better than Frye. I wouldve never picked bynum. He missed half of his senior year and isnt even experienced. The knicks wouldve had to wait alot for Bynum to develop. NY isnt patient. He hasnt shown any signs of being the next shaq. Just because he's big and tall doesnt mean he's gonna be the next shaq. I bet you said the same thing with tractor trailer.

 

[Mr. J]

Say whatever you want, but Isiah knows talent. Channing Frye has been sensational for us so far in the season. I'm not the biggest Andrew Bynum fan and wouldn't have used a lottery pick on him. As Gotskillz said, he is extremely raw, and he missed his senior year with an injury. I also read somewhere Bynum wasn't as good in high school as Curry and definitely not Shaq. Isiah, however, was ready to take him if Frye was off the board, though.

So far in 20 minutes, Frye is averaging 11 points, 5.3 rebounds, an assist, a blocked shot on a 47.8 field goal percentage and 91.7% from the line. He?s also 16th in the NBA in efficiency per 48 minutes. In about seven less minutes per game, he?s just 2.57 less efficient than the #1 pick, Andrew Bogut. Frye might not turn into a star in this league, but we know we?re getting a solid, hardworking kid who?s giving it his best effort night in and night out. What more can we ask for?

Also, as was mentioned above, Frye compliments Curry?s game very well. With Marbury and Curry drawing double teams, Frye can make opposing teams pay with the midrange jumper. His moves in the low post are also somewhat underrated. He?s showing an effective go-to move with the baby hook and has been running the floor extremely well, especially against the Lakers last night where he finished the break with two dunks including an alley-oop from Crawford.

I understand where you?re coming from, Tribute, but at the end of the day, Frye was probably the best fit for this team. He?s not a project and can contribute immediately, he?s a good complementary to our new franchise center, Eddy Curry. I honestly don?t see Bynum becoming like Shaq ? Shaq is a once in a lifetime player. A better scenario will be someone like Eddy Curry who we would have eventually acquired, anyway.

Btw, sorry for not being as active, but I'm having computer troubles and I don't know when I'll be able to post consistently again. Sorry.