Official season is over and trade deadline thread

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Yeah, I'm thinking more about the next 3-4 years, this year they could make the playoffs with him but wouldn't do much.
 
Kane should not cost more than MDZ and Hagelin. His value is lower that whale crap right now. Not only is he doing jack this season but his off the ice behavior is hardly good.
 
I agree the Jets have been healthy scratching him this year, Glen isn't going to throw everything but the kitchen sink at them. I like Kane but he's not worth more than what dump suggested. I would do Stepan/Hagelin, a change of scenery might do them all good. Dubi held out twice for more dough and showed up out of shape and apathetic - good riddance. He's still young enough to change his ways but even in the loss to the BJs he took 2 stupid penalties, there was the Dubi I remembered.
 
I wouldn't trade Stepan straight up for Kane. It's pointless. This team already has two power forwards in Nash and Kreider. What it doesn't have is a second, legit, playmaking center. Those players are just as hard to find as power forwards. Stepan is a class guy. Has no off the ice problems as Kane does. He's very good defensively. 71, you must be on the pipe to offer all that. My goodness. No freakin way. This team should also not trade any top 3 pick the next 2 years. Our farm system produced a lot of NHL players. It now needs to be re-stocked. As I said, this team should ask for picks back. If you offered up MDZ and Hagelin for Kane I would want a second from them in return. The reality is that Kane won't help the Jets win more than the combination of MDZ and Hagelin. He's not doing crap this season other than piss off the owner, GM and coaches.
 
If the Jets are smoking that much weed to ask all of that, then Sather should immediately ignore them and move on to other teams. I have said if for a month now. The Islanders and Rangers are perfect trade partners. Honestly, the rivalry thing is not close to what it used to be. I hate the Penguins, Devils and Craps a lot more than the Islanders. The Islanders badly need a defenseman. Rangers badly need better forwards.

MDZ/Pyatt/D. Moore/Hrvik

for

Nelson and Grabner

I honestly believe you could do this deal tomorrow it makes so much sense. The nonsense of not trading with certain teams has to stop. The Rangers and Islanders both suck and can both immensely help each other out with that deal.
 
No way a trade of that magnitude happens between the Icelanders and our Rags. Neither GM will go out in that limb due to the fear of the possibility of it helping a divisional rival.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
 
I disagree 100%. The Islanders and Rangers are no longer big rivals because the Islanders basically never make the playoffs. You are only rivals if you meet a lot in the playoffs. When is the last time the Rangers and Islanders played in the playoffs Al? 1994. That was 19 years ago. Sorry, I don't consider the Islanders a rival any longer. Whatever history these two teams had has been over for at least a decade now.
 
Personally, I think you are all a little loopy...:).

Stepan, Miller, MDZ, decent prospect, 1st all for Kane. That is insane. No way I do that. Kane has 30 goals ONCE. The kid has never gotten 60 points. And you want to deal ALL that? No way I do that.

On the flip side, no shot in H*LL we get Kane AND a 2nd for MDZ and Hags. No shot at all.

To me I would offer, MDZ/Miller/Hags/decent prospect (not McIlrath) OR decent pick (not a 1st) FOR Kane. To me that is a fair haul. Get a dman in MDZ, who people would still view as a top 4 dman. Get a past 1st round pick who has top 9 forward written all over him. Get Hags, who is also a top 9 forward. And get another decent prospect or decent pick ALL for Kane. That is a fair deal.

From our POV we lose MDZ, who I don't think we'll re-sign both him and Girardi anyway. Miller, who will be a solid top 9 forward but I doubt in NY has a major role for 2 years or so. Hags, who is a solid top 9 forward, but we can afford to give him up and replace him this summer. And a decent pick or prospect that WPG can develop.

To me that is a fair deal for both sides. That is what I would be willing to do. If they wanted Stepan for sure, I would do it, but no Miller, no 1st, no Hags. Maybe Step and MDZ, that's it, and that is only if I didn't plan to re-sign MDZ this summer anyway. And I would want a pick back from WPG most likely.

Outside of "potential" what has Kane really done that has been that much better than Stepan? Kane high of 57 points. Step high of 51 points. Second for Step is 44 points in 48 games last season. And he had a 45 point season as well. And he has 20 points this season. Kane's next best season is 43 points. And he only has 14 points this season.

So I don't get why we would give up Stepan AND all this other great stuff for Kane. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

That's how I view the Kane thing. I doubt we get him anyway, but that's how I would handle it if it were me as GM.
 
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Pretty much what I said Chuck. Trade a fine, two way center like Stepan for an under achieving, power forward is just stupid. Team isn't going forward. It's worse off in my opinion.
 
Right now we WAY overrate Kane and WAY underrate Stepan. That's how I see it if we would deal Step and all that for Kane. Numbers show that would be a poor move. We agree dump.
 
The Jets are asking for the world because they can't accept the fact they are so stupid they can't get Kane to fullfill his talent.
 
chuckd3534 said:
Right now we WAY overrate Kane and WAY underrate Stepan. That's how I see it if we would deal Step and all that for Kane. Numbers show that would be a poor move. We agree dump.
Click to expand...

We agree Kane shouldn't cost as much as has been said on this thread, and that's b/c he's having a horrid season for his talent level and expectations, rather than taking the next step forward. However, i would say we overrate Stepan and underrate Kane somewhat.

Kane is a year younger and has put up a 30gl season and last year scored at a 30gl pace while playing in very mediocre teams. In the 4 years he's been in the NHL (excl. this one) his teams have been a combined 4 gms over .500. Stepan's production has been unimpressive, other than last year's 30gm stretch where he played out his mind, while playing on much better teams. In his 3yrs in the league (excl. this year) the Rangers are a combined 46gms over .500.

Remember how you and others were projecting 75-85pts for Stepan? if you see him on the ice you can see he's not that type of prolific player. I think he's a solid 50-55pt player nice to have on your team, but that's where it ends. Kane is fast, can score and can fight, but he has regressed this year for whatever reason so his value is as low as it's ever been. If he had continued his progression this year he wouldn't be available to begin with.

He's a top-5 pick and that type of talent is seldom available so i think we would be foolish not to go hard after him. It's a bit of a risk b/c of the regression this year (never been to WPG, but i imagine it's not a fun place this time of year) but the potential reward is through the roof.
 
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NYR31 said:
We agree Kane shouldn't cost as much as has been said on this thread, and that's b/c he's having a horrid season for his talent level and expectations, rather than taking the next step forward. However, i would say we overrate Stepan and underrate Kane somewhat.

Kane is a year younger and has put up a 30gl season and last year scored at a 30gl pace while playing in very mediocre teams. In the 4 years he's been in the NHL (excl. this one) his teams have been a combined 4 gms over .500. Stepan's production has been unimpressive, other than last year's 30gm stretch where he played out his mind, while playing on much better teams. In his 3yrs in the league (excl. this year) the Rangers are a combined 46gms over .500.

Remember how you and others were projecting 75-85pts for Stepan? if you see him on the ice you can see he's not that type of prolific player. I think he's a solid 50-55pt player nice to have on your team, but that's where it ends. Kane is fast, can score and can fight, but he has regressed this year for whatever reason so his value is as low as it's ever been. If he had continued his progression this year he wouldn't be available to begin with.

He's a top-5 pick and that type of talent is seldom available so i think we would be foolish not to go hard after him. It's a bit of a risk b/c of the regression this year (never been to WPG, but i imagine it's not a fun place this time of year) but the potential reward is through the roof.
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+1 31..they'd be lucky to get a talent like Kane who could be the franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years. You can never have enough talent at forward, especially when Nash is one more concussion from big problems. Stepan is a solid 2nd C, but he's neither physical nor overly skilled so that's someone you can replace through FA every few years. The bigger issue is needing a top C to play with Nash while he's here.
 
Here is what I know.

Kane had a 30 goal season exactly. And have NEVER scored 20 goals in any other season. Kane has a 57 point season and has never scored 44 points in any other season. He has 14 points this season. Kane turned 22 in August.

Stepan has seasons of 44 (in 48 games), 45, and 51 points. Stepan has 20 points this season. Stepan turned 23 in June, so he is one year older than Kane.

I guess I am missing how those numbers equal we should deal Stepan and a lot more for Kane. I don't understand it. Now you cannot base everything on numbers alone, we agree. And Kane has a ton of potential, we agree there as well. But there is simpy no way I deal Stepan and a lot more for Kane. That would be flat out over paying IMO.

If they said Stepan or no deal, I would include MDZ at most for Kane, but that is all. And I would do what I could to keep Stepan out of the deal. I just don't see the need to include Stepan in the deal, when numbers show Kane is a little better, if he is even better. To me if we are dealing Stepan in a Kane deal are we really improving THAT much? Numbers say the answer is a no.
 
And actually, I said 65-70 points for Stepan. And I think he can still get there. We all know, as shown by your posts this week, that you said this on Stepan and you said that on Brassard. We know 31. You tell us very often...LOL. Let's be sure to keep posting that though, and leave out any calls you were wrong on...LOL.

And BTW...I have no interest in getting into a battle with you or anyone else on this issue (which is what usually happens on this board). I personally think some of you are overrating Kane and underrating Stepan. We can agree to disagree on that.
 
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Yes chuck, he's had one 30 goal season in 4. But there's more to the story than that. Of the 3 he didn't one was the lockout season where he scored at a 30 goal pace, and the other two were his first two seasons in the league when he was 18 and 19 YEARS OLD. He's a proven 30 goal scorer and he's 22. I'm not going to hold it against him because he didn't reach 20 goals as a teenager. If anything we're underrating him.
 
How is that so different than Stepan though? Last season Step was 18 goals and 44 points in 48 games. Stepan has 21, 17, and 18 goals. And he is ONE year older. So any age comment you want to make on Kane make on Step also since there is a ONE year age difference.

Kane last year was 17 goals and 33 points in 48 games. So LESS goals than Stepan last season. LESS GOALS THAN STEPAN. And 11 less points. Kane has 19, 30, and 17 goals. Not sure how that makes him a proven 30 goal scorer, but I guess somehow one season of exactly 30 goals makes him a proven 30 goal scorer. Fair enough.

And if you want to say pace last year in 48 games, I say he was on pace for 29 goals last season over 82 games, not 30, and even if it was 30 or 31, that is barely 30 at best, so come on. AND Stepan had more goals than Kane last season. He was on pace for 31 last season, which is 30.

And outside of his 57 point season, Stepan has the best 3 seasons between the two players points wise.

Once again I am missing how Kane is SO MUCH BETTER than Stepan. Unless we are judging 100% on potential, I just don't see it. To me this is a case of the grass is greener on the other side. Because any Ranger fan who would deal Stepan and a lot more for Kane is basing that 100% on potential, which may never come true fully, and IMO is way underrating Stepan.
 
I'm talking purely about Kane. I like Stepan and don't want to deal him at all, but that doesn't mean people on here aren't undervaluing Kane. To me, scoring 14 G in 66 games as an 18 year old, then scoring 19 G in 72 games as a 19 year old while playing for the Atlanta freakin Thrashers is pretty impressive. We need size and we need finishers. That's Kane. Stepan is a different player but if WPG wants DZ and Stepan I think about it. I try to get them to take Miller instead but I still think about it.
 
I would actually prefer Byfuglian over Kane but I think the huge distinction between Kane and Stepan is physicality.
 
Ranger71 said:
+1 31..they'd be lucky to get a talent like Kane who could be the franchise cornerstone for the next 10 years. You can never have enough talent at forward, especially when Nash is one more concussion from big problems. Stepan is a solid 2nd C, but he's neither physical nor overly skilled so that's someone you can replace through FA every few years. The bigger issue is needing a top C to play with Nash while he's here.
Click to expand...

We often have people on this board lamenting how difficult it is to win a Cup if you're not drafting in the top 10, yet here's a top 5 pick who has all the talent in the world who is rumored to be available and somehow he's not worth pursuing and we're overrating him.

If that type of talent is available in the first place it's because there's something the current team is unhappy about otherwise he'd never be available, so it's a bit of a risk but one that can pay off in spades.

When Seguin was traded last year some may have wondered about his off-ice problems, partying too hard, whatever you want to call it, and that's what made him available. Do you think the Stars are regretting that trade when they now have a 21yo stud putting up better than a pt per game? No, but they took a risk, paid the price to acquire that level of talent and now are reaping the benefit.
 
dumppyattnow said:
I disagree 100%. The Islanders and Rangers are no longer big rivals because the Islanders basically never make the playoffs. You are only rivals if you meet a lot in the playoffs. When is the last time the Rangers and Islanders played in the playoffs Al? 1994. That was 19 years ago. Sorry, I don't consider the Islanders a rival any longer. Whatever history these two teams had has been over for at least a decade now.
Click to expand...

you are looking at it totally wrong. when ever these two teams get together the islanders as well as the devils want to play their best, when the rangers were good it was almost like the playoffs for the islanders when they played them. you are way off base on this.
 
NYR31 said:
We often have people on this board lamenting how difficult it is to win a Cup if you're not drafting in the top 10, yet here's a top 5 pick who has all the talent in the world who is rumored to be available and somehow he's not worth pursuing and we're overrating him.

If that type of talent is available in the first place it's because there's something the current team is unhappy about otherwise he'd never be available, so it's a bit of a risk but one that can pay off in spades.

When Seguin was traded last year some may have wondered about his off-ice problems, partying too hard, whatever you want to call it, and that's what made him available. Do you think the Stars are regretting that trade when they now have a 21yo stud putting up better than a pt per game? No, but they took a risk, paid the price to acquire that level of talent and now are reaping the benefit.
Click to expand...

But..but..we'll shower the other team with MDZ and Hagelin..they'll be fortunate to get that right(facepalm)?Or is that too much?lol
 
lol, also confusing is that people complain this team isn't talented enough (accurately) yet when there's a very talented young player available suddenly our players are actually better.
 
theProdigy223 said:
I'm talking purely about Kane. I like Stepan and don't want to deal him at all, but that doesn't mean people on here aren't undervaluing Kane. To me, scoring 14 G in 66 games as an 18 year old, then scoring 19 G in 72 games as a 19 year old while playing for the Atlanta freakin Thrashers is pretty impressive. We need size and we need finishers. That's Kane. Stepan is a different player but if WPG wants DZ and Stepan I think about it. I try to get them to take Miller instead but I still think about it.
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We agree Prod. Kane is a very good player. He is a 25-30 or so goal guy for the most part. And he has upside to do more if he fully develops. We agree.

I was talking more about Stepan compared to Kane. I'm sorry, but Kane is not THAT much better. He is better based on his big potential, but not to the point where I would give Stepan and a ton for Kane. I would not do that. As I said earlier I would do MDZ and Stepan for Kane if I had to, so we agree again (although I would try and get a pick back also from WPG).

So you and I pretty much agree. My "issue" is with people saying giving up Stepan and a lot on top is something that makes very little sense to me. I just don't see the huge difference between the two, outside of maybe someone saying Kane has so much potential. I am not saying I agree or disagree with that comment, but I would not pay a crazy amount of Stepan and a lot more to maybe take a shot at that potential. That's seems like too much of a gamble to me, when number wise Stepan is honestly worst case on par with Kane thus far.
 
NYR31 said:
We often have people on this board lamenting how difficult it is to win a Cup if you're not drafting in the top 10, yet here's a top 5 pick who has all the talent in the world who is rumored to be available and somehow he's not worth pursuing and we're overrating him.

If that type of talent is available in the first place it's because there's something the current team is unhappy about otherwise he'd never be available, so it's a bit of a risk but one that can pay off in spades.

When Seguin was traded last year some may have wondered about his off-ice problems, partying too hard, whatever you want to call it, and that's what made him available. Do you think the Stars are regretting that trade when they now have a 21yo stud putting up better than a pt per game? No, but they took a risk, paid the price to acquire that level of talent and now are reaping the benefit.
Click to expand...
It is always a battle with you. I think we are overrating Kane IN COMPARISON TO STEPAN. That's my point. I would go for Kane for sure. I said I would give Miller, MDZ, Hags, and a decent prospect or pick all for Kane. I just don't see Kane as this much better player than Stepan, and the numbers show he clearly isn't thus far.
 
NYR31 said:
lol, also confusing is that people complain this team isn't talented enough (accurately) yet when there's a very talented young player available suddenly our players are actually better.
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Fill me in 31...which players did we say are better than Kane. And go...

Right, none...LOL.

Do I think Kane is much better than Stepan...NO.
Do the #'s show Kane is much better than Stepan...NO.
Would I deal Stepan and a little for Kane...YES.
Would I much rather deal a very solid package of MDZ, Hags, Miller, and a pick or prospect for Kane...YES.

That's a former 1st in MDZ. A former 1st in Miller. A top 9 forward who scores maybe 15 or so goals in Hags. And a decent prospect or decent pick all for Kane, who has 30 goals once.

If anything I said there is crazy let me know. If I knocked Kane there let me know. If I am being insane here let me know. Because I would love to see how anything I said is anything but logical.

As a matter of fact, the only crazy thing said today by anyone is we should deal Stepan, Miller, MDZ, a decent prospect, and a 1st all for Kane. That is insane. The only insane thing said today IMO.
 
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I think the debate about trading Stepan for Kane is interesting. I don't see how this team gets better by adding Kane at the expense of Stepan + more

Stepan has been frustrating at times and looks very good for stretches. Have not watched Kane nearly as much but I suspect his wrap is similar.

Kane might never be more than a good 25-30 goal/60 point guy with really good intangibles. He could explode too but he is not a sure thing. I don't think you can include Stepan for that.
 
Exactly dis. I would do Stepan if I had no choice, but that's the very main part of the deal. Maybe I throw in MDZ as well if I plan to let him go this summer anyway, but add more...no way. That's my point exactly. Stepan is almost at the level of Kane based solely on each players careers so far (and actually based on numbers only Step has been better IMO), so why would I also throw in a ton more with Step...I wouldn't. That would be way over paying IMO.

Stepan and MDZ would be the max I would offer for Kane if they wanted Stepan for sure. And even then I would think long and hard, and would want a decent pick back.
 
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Disturbed said:
I think the debate about trading Stepan for Kane is interesting. I don't see how this team gets better by adding Kane at the expense of Stepan + more

Stepan has been frustrating at times and looks very good for stretches. Have not watched Kane nearly as much but I suspect his wrap is similar.

Kane might never be more than a good 25-30 goal/60 point guy with really good intangibles. He could explode too but he is not a sure thing. I don't think you can include Stepan for that.
Click to expand...

The problem is that we're not deep at center while we already have 2 good wingers (Nash, Kreider) so if we trade Stepan, who is nothing special, the internal options are even worse, so the match isn't really there. But when it comes to talent, Kane's ceiling is much, much higher's than Stepan.
 
So here is my question 31. If we had to deal Stepan, WPG wanted him for sure let's say, how much would you include with him for Kane?

And while I will not argue with you regarding Kane's ceiling being higher, although I am not sure I would say as much higher as you believe which is cool, up until now their #'s have been very similar and maybe even slight edge Stepan.

So with that being the case, how much would you include with Step to get Kane? I wouldn't give a ton more on top of Step, but that's just my opinion.
 
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