OT Ok all you baseball purist

[tlongII]

I know you're not trying to see why baseball identified gambling as it's #1 sin, but I'm going to explain it anyway.

When teams cheat, they're always trying to win. Amphetamines, steroids, corked bats, pine tar, sign stealing--all are attempts to gain an advantage, to increase the likelihood of winning. After the Black Sox scandal, baseball cared more about that than anything else--that every batter, every pitcher, every coach, everyone on the field is trying every game to win.

They never cared about gambling per se; they cared about players/coaches being involved with bookmakers. The potential for gambling debts to unsavory characters provided the opportunity for said bookmakers to have significant leverage over an active major league manager.

Fans care about "numbers", "history", "legacy", etc. MLB cares primarily about money. As far as they're concerned, "cheating" doesn't make the game less interesting; it arguably makes it moreso. People believing that games could be rigged (ie, how many feel about the NBA) damages the product massively.

If baseball identified gambling as its #1 sin, then why do they have an ownership interest in a betting site?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If baseball identified gambling as its #1 sin, then why do they have an ownership interest in a betting site?

Because, as I stated in the post you just quoted (and apparently didn't read completely), they don't actually care about gambling per se; they care about players/managers being involved with illegal bookmakers. Being involved with an above-board gambling site is not contrary to that ethic.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Joe Girardi

Check out @AstrosOptimism2’s Tweet:

 

[Mediocre Man]

It's not just the Astros

 

[calvin natt]

As for Pete Rose, I always thought he should be in the HOF. I don’t know how I missed it, but when I later read all about how he was having a sexual relationship, as a player, with a 14! Year old girl, I am glad he’s getting left out. F this guy.

 

[Shaboid]

As for Pete Rose, I always thought he should be in the HOF. I don’t know how I missed it, but when I later read all about how he was having a sexual relationship, as a player, with a 14! Year old girl, I am glad he’s getting left out. F this guy.

I've never heard about that, but if true, yeah. F that guy. Link?

 

[calvin natt]

I've never heard about that, but if true, yeah. F that guy. Link?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...pete-rose-as-an-underage-teen/?outputType=amp

 

[calvin natt]

I've never heard about that, but if true, yeah. F that guy. Link?

Long story short - she was 14, he was 34. He said he thought she was 16, which was the legal age of consent back then where it took place. He was married with two kids at the time.

 

[yankeesince59]

Joe Girardi

Check out @AstrosOptimism2’s Tweet:

It's not just the Astros

You might wanna recheck your info, especially in the context of the timing, because you're "off base" here.

This is why I have such a problem with tweets/social media.

 

[Mediocre Man]

You might wanna recheck your info, especially in the context of the timing, because you're "off base" here.

This is why I have such a problem with tweets/social media.

So you're saying I'm wrong that it's not just the Astros who cheat?

The Red Sox were caught using Apple watches to steal signs and fined in 2017

The Yankees also fined for using phones in the dugout

Beltran said Astros behind the times in cheating

Girardi implicated himself, but tried to save it by saying other team. Either way, someone was cheating.

It's multiple teams

 

[Shaboid]

So you're saying I'm wrong that it's not just the Astros who cheat?

The Red Sox were caught using Apple watches to steal signs and fined in 2017

The Yankees also fined for using phones in the dugout

Beltran said Astros behind the times in cheating

Girardi implicated himself, but tried to save it by saying other team. Either way, someone was cheating.

It's multiple teams

I guess if it was my favorite team (the Mariners) I would care less. Idk. We haven't made the playoffs in almost two decades.

 

[Shaboid]

Long story short - she was 14, he was 34. He said he thought she was 16, which was the legal age of consent back then where it took place. He was married with two kids at the time.

Okay, I retract that he should be in the hof. Gambling on the game isn't something I really care about, but sexual relations with minors, especially a 14 year old, that's fucked up. He shouldn't be in the hof, he should be in jail.

 

[yankeesince59]

So you're saying I'm wrong that it's not just the Astros who cheat?

The Red Sox were caught using Apple watches to steal signs and fined in 2017

The Yankees also fined for using phones in the dugout

Beltran said Astros behind the times in cheating

Girardi implicated himself, but tried to save it by saying other team. Either way, someone was cheating.

It's multiple teams

The fact that the Yanx and others were fined in 2017 is not news.

That Girardi video tweet was very old...several teams were notified 2-3 years ago by MLB that it would not be permitted and any FUTURE offenses would be more severely disciplined and the only teams that did so anyway were the Red Sox and Houston, and hence they are the ones being penalized/scrutinized...the Yanx are not.

Even Houston fans recognize that what the Yanx did back then was not the same as what Houston did years later.

 

[tlongII]

Okay, I retract that he should be in the hof. Gambling on the game isn't something I really care about, but sexual relations with minors, especially a 14 year old, that's fucked up. He shouldn't be in the hof, he should be in jail.

Yeah that's pretty bad. I wasn't aware of the specifics of that issue. The only thing I think about with Rose is his play on the field.

 

[stampedehero]

should the Astro players be suspended and/or the Series stripped from them?

Having played ball for years stealing signs was part of the game. Just not using tech that was used in this case.

I would favor both.

AGREE....

 

[stampedehero]

Baseball purists are a group I'm not sure I'll ever understand when it comes to their game.

They could listen to an announcer and tell what he talked about in the first inning during the seventh inning stretch.
They know all obscure stats.

 

[Mediocre Man]

The fact that the Yanx and others were fined in 2017 is not news.

That Girardi video tweet was very old...several teams were notified 2-3 years ago by MLB that it would not be permitted and any FUTURE offenses would be more severely disciplined and the only teams that did so anyway were the Red Sox and Houston, and hence they are the ones being penalized/scrutinized...the Yanx are not.

Even Houston fans recognize that what the Yanx did back then was not the same as what Houston did years later.

No they don't. I live here and they all think the exact opposite. It amazes me

 

[yankeesince59]

No they don't. I live here and they all think the exact opposite. It amazes me

Sorry, that's simply not correct and I don't know how can you logically speak for all of them.

Hey, I'm sure there are a lot of Astros "homers" just as there are Yanx "homers" and like many sports fans who are loyal to a particular team, they tend to be myopic and labeled as "homers". Like I said, you might want to revisit the facts on the timeline of how and when and for what disciplinary measures were.

The video/tweet you posted seemed to imply that the Yanx used devices to the degree as Houston and it is something that was ongoing and that the Yanx kept using electronic devices after their hand was slapped in 2017... and there's absolutely no evidence to support otherwise.


This guy who is wearing his Astros regalia with pride, but he sees things more objectively and also refers to the video you posted and manages to even poke fun at it and what it wrongly implies about the Yanx.

It's a little long but well worth the listen;

 

[Lanny]

Of course it was...so was PED usage but I don't see how we can start retroactively deny/vacate titles, because not everyone is/was guilty.

ARod was a cheating POS on the Yanx when they won their last title in 2009 but should the Yanx and other champions be penalized because of a handful of cheats?

How far back do they go in cheating on your taxes? Answer - forever.
How far back do they go if you cheated on your company? Answer - forever.

 

[yankeesince59]

How far back do they go in cheating on your taxes? Answer - forever.
How far back do they go if you cheated on your company? Answer - forever.

Those are serious crimes/offenses which can lead to prison terms.

...Baseball, on the other hand, for the most part, has always had the luxury of governing themselves.