OKC - 4 Years Into the Rebuild

[Phatguysrule]

We need scoring and when Shae is reluctant to be aggressive like spots last night someone/Brog else will be aggressive and should. When Simons is back it will be the same thing. Shae is still developing confidence in his dribble drives but it's coming he just needs to be a bit selfish and not afraid to make a mistake. I think Brog has been terrific as a veteran and remember he was 6th man of the year last year, he'd come in and be aggressive. He'll be doing the same once Simons is back.

We're better off with Shae learning how to rise in that situation than allowing somebody else to take the heat. At least, IMO.

Brogdon wasted a golden opportunity for a Sharpe to learn an incredible lesson yesterday. I wouldn't allow that to be a habit.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Every player on the team is there for the same reason. Try their best to win the game and get better. Shae had more opportunities to score than just the shots he took. But Memphis did a good job of shutting down his drive. How many times did we see him try to drive the baseline only to pass it out because he did not want to force it? (Which I was impressed with ) Give Memphis some credit for their D.

But seriously do you really think Brogdon and Grant were trying to "pad their stats" last night? They were working their asses off trying to win that game. When was the last time we had players working both ends of the court all night long? I absolutely hate it when we all go to the "selfish" card because someone takes a lot of shots. What I saw was two guys who ran out of gas. Too bad Williams got hurt because he could have helped on Jackson Jr at the end.

You guys seem to have lots of patience for a rebuild (years) and zero patience for a team that has played less than 10 games together.

I don't trust Brogdon or Grant to make those decisions. I want Sharpe, Scoot, Ayton, and Simons making those decisions. Probably about in that order.

Grant and Brogdon only hold yhe team back when they do it, except that they aren't good at it, so we'll get a better lotto pick.

Best case scenario right now is for Sharpe and Ayton to learn the lessons in a loss. But having Sharpe and Ayton learning them in a win is arguably as good.

Having Grant and Brogdon Westbrooking us to wins is the worst case scenario.

 

[e_blazer]

Simons is NOT on the cusp of a breakout. That doesn’t happen in a player’s 6th year.

It can if the guy he was playing behind gets traded like...oh yeah, happened here.

 

[Bingo Bango]

It can if the guy he was playing behind gets traded like...oh yeah, happened here.

We’ll see. I hope you’re right, but I don’t see it happening.

 

[wizenheimer]

It can if the guy he was playing behind gets traded like...oh yeah, happened here.

Simons has not been playing behind somebody for most of the last 2 seasons. He's been a starter since CJ was traded

 

[Whyachi]

that team got stolen from Sonics fans. OKC will never be any good until they move back to Seattle.

 

[e_blazer]

Simons has not been playing behind somebody for most of the last 2 seasons. He's been a starter since CJ was traded

I wasn’t referring to position or starting. He’s now the number one scoring option; something that’s always been Dame’s clear bailiwick.

 

[wizenheimer]

I wasn’t referring to position or starting. He’s now the number one scoring option; something that’s always been Dame’s clear bailiwick.

except he's not at this point and it may not be the case he's a clear #1 by the time he gets healthy. Sharpe is making a case for that and he's a better defender than Ant. I also get the impression that Brogdon and Grant would not be as willing to defer to Ant as they might have been to Dame or Jayson Tatum. Ant averaged 17 shots last season. if that's his average this season those 17 shots will have to come from other players....like Shape and Ayton

 

[e_blazer]

except he's not at this point and it may not be the case he's a clear #1 by the time he gets healthy. Sharpe is making a case for that and he's a better defender than Ant. I also get the impression that Brogdon and Grant would not be as willing to defer to Ant as they might have been to Dame or Jayson Tatum. Ant averaged 17 shots last season. if that's his average this season those 17 shots will have to come from other players....like Shape and Ayton

I think you’re wrong. Just a feeling. We’re going to find out in a couple of months.

 

[wizenheimer]

I think you’re wrong. Just a feeling. We’re going to find out in a couple of months.

find out what exactly that we don't already know? That Ant will shoot a lot score a lot of points? I think we all know Ant will likely lead the team in shots, and probably in scoring. But his impact numbers may fall well short of his shots and scoring.

 

[kjironman1]

I think you’re wrong. Just a feeling. We’re going to find out in a couple of months.

Yeah. When he gets back they will use him as the clear number one option. We watched this a couple games ago with Sharpe 15-17 seconds left in the clock and they left him to ISO. When Simons gets back it will not be Sharpe doing that.

 

[e_blazer]

find out what exactly that we don't already know? That Ant will shoot a lot score a lot of points? I think we all know Ant will likely lead the team in shots, and probably in scoring. But his impact numbers may fall well short of his shots and scoring.

I know you have reams of stats to back up your dislike of Ant as a player. I’m not wired that way. Since that crazy end of season game against the Kings a few years ago where he went off for thirty-something points in a game the Blazers intended to lose, I’ve been hoping he would put the pieces together and make the step to the next level. I love his shot, his leaping ability and the way he moves. I think he’s a good person. I’m still rooting for him.

 

[wizenheimer]

I know you have reams of stats to back up your dislike of Ant as a player. I’m not wired that way. Since that crazy end of season game against the Kings a few years ago where he went off for thirty-something points in a game the Blazers intended to lose, I’ve been hoping he would put the pieces together and make the step to the next level. I love his shot, his leaping ability and the way he moves. I think he’s a good person. I’m still rooting for him.

you "think he's a good person"? OK. I don't know where that came from because I sure didn't say he wasn't

 

[e_blazer]

you "think he's a good person"? OK. I don't know where that came from because I sure didn't say he wasn't

Never meant to imply otherwise. Just listing my reasons for being a fan. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know that your reasoning for wanting him gone is based on his stats.

 

[Samuel]

There's a great article on ESPN about where the Thunder are at with their rebuild. It started in 2019 with the Paul George trade. That trade netted them Shai Gilgeous-Alexander and Jalen Williams. They've added Holmgren and other rookies. SAG has blossomed into a legit superstar. Holmgren looks great now that he's healthy. Presti has a stockpile of 15 first round picks and many would say that this season is the time to be pushing those chips in to try to net another bonafide star or two, but Presti is preaching that the Thunder are taking the long view that they need to develop their talent more and build around that: "I'm not trying to dismiss everyone's excitement, but we're not a .500 team. We have to finish our breakfast before we start acting like we're on the cusp of something."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id...sti-pivot-why-darlings-nba-preaching-patience

So what does all of this say as to what the Blazers' model should be? We're hoping that Shai and Scoot will develop into All-stars, but they've got a long way to go to achieve that. Ant could be on the cusp of a breakout, but now we have to wait until the first of the year or so in order to find out. Ayton's still an enigma. He's looking like a journeyman big man, but is there more hidden there? The Blazers' stock of draft picks pales in comparison to the Thunders' but there's reason to believe that they'll have a top-5 pick in this year's draft and they have the Warriors' pick that could be decent should Golden State's age catch up with them. There are more picks down the road a ways.

So, fellow Rip City 2 fans, how much patience do you have with the rebuild process? Are we going to lose our shit every time the Blazers lay a massive crap-colored egg like last night? Are you up for maybe 3-5 years of losing, playing it slow ala the Thunder, allowing the young guys to develop before making trades for established guys? Or, should the Blazers try to jump the line by trading someone like Ant and picks for an established star? We saw that Olshey totally wasted Dame's youth by bringing in a string of middle-tier and journeyman bandaid players that never amounted to anything. I don't want to see the same thing happen with Shai and Scoot.

It's sort of incredible how Presti has managed to stave off any weight of expectations on this team. I don't blame him at all—it's the job of the GM to craft an upward narrative and a framework for the public to view the team in, and to protect the coach and the players from public pressure in the name of development , but I also think media should hold his team to account a tick—even if the team is young. Most teams who make the play-in get lambasted for being stuck in the middle. But with OKC it's a head pat and a smile at their bright future.

If I'm an OKC fan how long am I okay with this?

If I'm SGA how long am I down to have my biggest moments come in regular season games?

The fact is that this team could put together a championship squad tomorrow if it wanted to. eventually you gotta pay people, and eventually player/owner/fan/media patience wears off.

And as history has taught us—specifically OKC!—sometimes the bright future falls apart before it ever comes.

 

[wizenheimer]

Never meant to imply otherwise. Just listing my reasons for being a fan. I’ve seen enough of your posts to know that your reasoning for wanting him gone is based on his stats.

not really...it's based on a lot more that stats. It's based upon seeing him in 250 games; on seeing what he is as a player, and what he will never be as a player. On his strengths, on his flaws, and how those fit into the NBA. Yeah, I use stats to make my arguments but the foundation is observation. I'd imagine you'd say the foundation is bias which I confirm with stats; maybe you'd be right, but I don't just pick one or two stats, I look at a broad spectrum of stats and combine with observation. And we both have some bias here

if Portland is as invested in Ant as they appear to be then they should have the balls to move him to PG, bench Scoot, start Sharpe at his natural position of SG, and go with a front court of Camara, Grant, Ayton. Trying to justify Ant as starting SG by rationalizing reasons for Sharpe at SF makes no sense to me. As I said, a lot of the awkwardness I see in lineups and rotations would be alleviated by Ant as 6th man

I suppose it doesn't make a lot of difference...this season isn't about winning games. I'm just tired of under-sized lineups

 

[e_blazer]

not really...it's based on a lot more that stats. It's based upon seeing him in 250 games; on seeing what he is as a player, and what he will never be as a player. On his strengths, on his flaws, and how those fit into the NBA. Yeah, I use stats to make my arguments but the foundation is observation. I'd imagine you'd say the foundation is bias which I confirm with stats; maybe you'd be right, but I don't just pick one or two stats, I look at a broad spectrum of stats and combine with observation. And we both have some bias here

if Portland is as invested in Ant as they appear to be then they should have the balls to move him to PG, bench Scoot, start Sharpe at his natural position of SG, and go with a front court of Camara, Grant, Ayton. Trying to justify Ant as starting SG by rationalizing reasons for Sharpe at SF makes no sense to me. As I said, a lot of the awkwardness I see in lineups and rotations would be alleviated by Ant as 6th man

I suppose it doesn't make a lot of difference...this season isn't about winning games. I'm just tired of under-sized lineups

Playing Ant with Brogdon isn’t undersized.
Playing Scoot with Sharpe isn’t undersized.
I’d try to stick with those pairings. Couldn’t care less who starts.