OT OKC

[andalusian]

Look, say what you want about Durant and some of his petty nonsense this off-season - the dude loves basketball and is a great player. If this guy leaves your team because he does not like playing next to Russ - Russ is a problem.

Anyone that would choose Russ over Durant is crazy. Harden is hard to watch at times (a lot less this year) - but arguably - the 2 best players from that team that went to the finals are no longer there and they are stuck with the 3rd best. That's bad.

 

[Boob-No-More]

BNM - you seem to lay the entirety of the blame at Westbrook's feet. I was wondering if that's actually the case, or if you're only expressing a portion of your opinion in your posts. Basically, I wonder whether you feel the coach has anything to do with Westbrook's play and how he impacts the 4th quarter.

Personally I think Westbrook is a phenomenal player - without looking at the current PGs in the league, I'd say he's a Top 3 PG. But I agree with you that his play does end up hurting his team late in games. However, I see this as almost entirely a coaching issue. Westbrook puts his team in a position to win games throughout the first 3 quarters - without him they'd be awful. But he clearly doesn't have the mental or leadership qualities to see it through in the end. That's EXACTLY what a coach is for - recognizing players weaknesses/strengths and maximizing/minimizing them. That's not being done with Westbrook and is a huge coaching failure.

The problem is even worse with Donovan than it was with Brooks. During Donovan's first regular season as coach, he seemed to have installed a more motion oriented offense that involved more player and ball movement. However, during the playoffs, Westbrook reverted to his hero ball style. I think Donovan gave up control of the team when he let Westbrook dictate who played and who didn't (Kanter).

After losing Durant it became the All Russ All the Time Show and now they rely almost totally on isolation plays for their Big 3. That results in a lot of low percentage mid range shots as the shot clock is winding down. It gets even worse in the 4th quarter when Westbrook wants to have the ball in his hands on every possession. Even if the coach draws up a play that involves more players and ball movement, it's on the players, especially the PG to execute that play. The problem is Westbrook uses his veto lower way too often and just tries to go 1-on-5 with the game on the line.

So, yeah the coach needs to get more people involved, but Westbrook needs to subjugate his own ego and allow that to actually happen.

BNM

 

[blue9]

Agree on all counts. I'd just add that the coach needs to hold Westbrook accountable for his 4th-quarter fuck-ups. I know that's not how things are done in today's NBA, but that's clearly the biggest issue with Westbrook. He's never going to have the mindset of a Steve Nash, but he has the skills to be so much better than Nash. As long as he's not a Blazer, it's great that he's so anti-clutch. But if he ever gets to the point (either through coaching or self-examination) where he can properly run a team during the closing minutes he'd be the best PG in the league by a long shot.

I will be curious to see how his game ages. While he is extremely athletic, I don't get the impression that his game will implode the way that Rose's did.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Donovan should bench Russ in the 4th of a close game... it’s the in thing

 

[Natebishop3]

Didn't the Miami Heat have a real bad start the 1st season of The Heatles? Like 8-9 or something. I think there is too much talent on their roster to not figure this out.

Well, the Heatles had prime LeBron, prime Wade and prime Bosh. The Thunder have prime Westbrook and prime PG13, but Anthony is in the twilight of his prime. The Heat also had a better bench I think.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Donovan should bench Russ in the 4th of a close game... it’s the in thing

He should update his resume and LinkedIn profile first.

BNM

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Well, the Heatles had prime LeBron, prime Wade and prime Bosh. The Thunder have prime Westbrook and prime PG13, but Anthony is in the twilight of his prime. The Heat also had a better bench I think.

That first year the Heat Bench was garbage iirc.

 

[Natebishop3]

That first year the Heat Bench was garbage iirc.

Not really THAT bad, but when your three stars are shooting around 50% from the field, they're going to take most of the shots. LeBron and Wade both averaged around 19 FGA and Bosh was around 14.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2011.html

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Didn't the Miami Heat have a real bad start the 1st season of The Heatles? Like 8-9 or something. I think there is too much talent on their roster to not figure this out.

The Heat did have a rough start but everyone knew they'd turn it around because it's LeBron and Wade, who had insane chemistry on/off the court. Once they found their go to way to play it was over.

OKC is a little different, they're trying to have square pegs into round holes right now since they just kinda threw together a team of random stars that idk if they are friends off the court even. They should finish above .500 but they need to stop playing that whole taking turns going ISO offense. It's not going to work.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Remember at the end of last year when Paul George was pissed because his teammate took the last shot of the game instead of passing it back? I wonder what he is thinking now when does not get to shoot in the last......... 10 possessions?

OK I am embellishing a little but at what point does the frustration boil over? And does Russ pull a LBJ and refuse to shoot just to prove a point? This could get fun.

 

[Rhal]

Well, the Heatles had prime LeBron, prime Wade and prime Bosh. The Thunder have prime Westbrook and prime PG13, but Anthony is in the twilight of his prime. The Heat also had a better bench I think.

Also Lebron is so much better then PG13 and Westbrook is really not that fair.

 

[Boob-No-More]

@HCP - Orlando ends their 9-game losing streak by beating the Thunder by 13. OKC is now 8-12 and in last place in the NW Division.

Remember that "horrible" start the Heattles had their first year together? After 20 games, they were 12-8.

BNM

 

[PHXBlazer1]

The Heat had LeBron.

 

[KingSpeed]

HCP once told me that the Thunder have three players that command double teams! Well, there should be people open then right and they're winning easily! Nope. The Thunder is the team that bad teams can't wait to play. Horrible. Dead last in division. Holding on to the 10th seed by a thread. Could get worse.

 

[KingSpeed]

Well you make a good point, but as much as I hate Westbrook everytime we play against him.....I love his competitiveness. So if he is on the floor, they will make the playoffs.

He was on the floor in 2014-15. Durant was hurt. Westbrook took all the shots. Pelicans beat Thunder out for 8th seed. When will Westbrook learn? He wasted Oladipo last year and can't even win this year with Paul fucking George who by the way may not be as good as we thought.

 

[KingSpeed]

To think about: If Westbrook isn't voted in by fans and the Thunder still suck, does Westbrook make the All Star team? Players like CJ and Dame are more deserving in my opinion

 

[Sarni]

To think about: If Westbrook isn't voted in by fans and the Thunder still suck, does Westbrook make the All Star team? Players like CJ and Dame are more deserving in my opinion

Of course he makes All-Star game. As long as he plays, he will be in All-Star teams.

 

[Pinwheel1]

He was on the floor in 2014-15. Durant was hurt. Westbrook took all the shots. Pelicans beat Thunder out for 8th seed. When will Westbrook learn? He wasted Oladipo last year and can't even win this year with Paul fucking George who by the way may not be as good as we thought.

I am starting to wonder about this myself.

As for 2014-15 Westbrook was only on the floor for 67 games. Durant only played 27 games and they still won 45 games. (same as the Pelicans who got into the playoffs on a tie breaker.) OKC finished 2nd in the division that year behind Portland.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

OKC is making the playoffs if I was a betting man but they won't have homecourt. 5th seed is the highest I can see them getting and that is probably a stretch.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

He was on the floor in 2014-15. Durant was hurt. Westbrook took all the shots. Pelicans beat Thunder out for 8th seed. When will Westbrook learn? He wasted Oladipo last year and can't even win this year with Paul fucking George who by the way may not be as good as we thought.

You’re onto something here. In his career he’s never broke a 21PER, which is third wheel on a championship level team. The reason he looks so bad this year though? His Free Throw Rate has dropped like a stone, below 20%. He’s typically been around 30%, last year at 27.7%... he’s shooting way more threes, going away from what made him special: slashing and breaking down defenses. OKC is bad for him; POR could have used him like he’s used to (we’re not a big here point shooting team anymore; I think we’re like 28th in attempts)

 

[blue9]

The Heat had LeBron.

And played in the East.

 

[Scalma]

You’re onto something here. In his career he’s never broke a 21PER, which is third wheel on a championship level team. The reason he looks so bad this year though? His Free Throw Rate has dropped like a stone, below 20%. He’s typically been around 30%, last year at 27.7%... he’s shooting way more threes, going away from what made him special: slashing and breaking down defenses. OKC is bad for him; POR could have used him like he’s used to (we’re not a big here point shooting team anymore; I think we’re like 28th in attempts)

So what you’re saying is we’re getting him for Meyers and Harkless?

 

[H.C.]

He wasted Oladipo last year

Shockingly this is actually a really good point by KS.
Oladipo is having a career year, and his numbers are up across the board.
Sabonis was considered a bust in OKC, but suddenly away from Westbrick he's showing to be anything but a bust.
Maybe these two just didn't fit well with Westbrick, but I find that hard to believe. Oladipo is taking 5+ threes a game and shooting nearly 44%.
While Sabonis after being considered a bust. Is averaging nearly 13/9 with 2 assists on only 25mpg. And has raised his shooting % from under 40% to 55%

 

[THE HCP]

@HCP - Orlando ends their 9-game losing streak by beating the Thunder by 13. OKC is now 8-12 and in last place in the NW Division.

Remember that "horrible" start the Heattles had their first year together? After 20 games, they were 12-8.

BNM

Wasn’t comparing the teams really. More that they had this Big 3 type situation and it took awhile for the chemistry to get going. I thought they were 8-9, but I guess I was WAY off and they were 9-8. OKC is dangerous and still feel they will get it together.

 

[THE HCP]

HCP once told me that the Thunder have three players that command double teams! Well, there should be people open then right and they're winning easily! Nope. The Thunder is the team that bad teams can't wait to play. Horrible. Dead last in division. Holding on to the 10th seed by a thread. Could get worse.

Why can’t I see this post?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Wasn’t comparing the teams really. More that they had this Big 3 type situation and it took awhile for the chemistry to get going. I thought they were 8-9, but I guess I was WAY off and they were 9-8. OKC is dangerous and still feel they will get it together.

The Heattles got it going much sooner than the Blunder. As I mentioned in an earlier post, that MIA team started 0-1, but never had a losing record after that. OKC started 1-0 and hasn't had a winning record since. By 20 games in the Heat were 12-8 and rolling. After 20 games OKC is 8-12 and floundering.

They are 0-9 in close games (typical of a team with Westbrook dominating the ball in the 4th quarter) and have lost by double digits to ORL and DAL in their last two game. At this point PHO and BRK have won as many games (8) as OKC.

When exactly are they going to "get it together"? What exactly is going to change? Are they suddenly going to get a bench? Are they going to stop running an inefficient isolation based offense? Is Westbrook going to magically start getting his teammates involved in the 4th quarter after years of "hero" ball?

I agree they have a lot of talent and will win more than 33 games (their current pace after 20 games), but I don't think they will ever be as good as you think they will be. Their talent just doesn't mesh and they have no bench. And Westbrook teams are historically bad in close games.

They could be dangerous in a 7-game series, if two of their stars get really hot at the same time, but right now they don't look like the dominant team you think they will become.

BNM

 

[THE HCP]

The Heattles got it going much sooner than the Blunder. As I mentioned in an earlier post, that MIA team started 0-1, but never had a losing record after that. OKC started 1-0 and hasn't had a winning record since. By 20 games in the Heat were 12-8 and rolling. After 20 games OKC is 8-12 and floundering.

They are 0-9 in close games (typical of a team with Westbrook dominating the ball in the 4th quarter) and have lost by double digits to ORL and DAL in their last two game. At this point PHO and BRK have won as many games (8) as OKC.

When exactly are they going to "get it together"? What exactly is going to change? Are they suddenly going to get a bench? Are they going to stop running an inefficient isolation based offense? Is Westbrook going to magically start getting his teammates involved in the 4th quarter after years of "hero" ball?

I agree they have a lot of talent and will win more than 33 games (their current pace after 20 games), but I don't think they will ever be as good as you think they will be. Their talent just doesn't mesh and they have no bench. And Westbrook teams are historically bad in close games.

They could be dangerous in a 7-game series, if two of their stars get really hot at the same time, but right now they don't look like the dominant team you think they will become.

BNM

Great research, thanks. It would be interesting to see strength of schedule of the first 20 to really break it down, what do you think? Don’t know why, I just really think talent wins out. They are going top be fine....... just a feeling. Interesting that when talking about the 9 close game that they lost, it is used as a negative thing. But around here the 5 or 6 games we lost that were close are used as a postivive thing. As in we could have 18 wins right now. I know everybody has their opinions, I just strongly believe the more talented team will rise to the top. Especially in a playoff series. We’ll see. Man I remember the JinxSpeed just blasting me when I said the Heatles would dominate the league and they got off to a slow start.....wouldn’t shut up about how wrong I was. Then they won like 30 of 30 something and not a peep. Oh well. Thanks again for diggin up all those numbers, that’s why I love this place

 

[blue9]

I think the point of comparisons is to show that things are similar or different, not THE SAME or TOTALLY OPPOSITE. The comparison between MIA and OKC is apt - both were/are hugely disappointing based on how people thought they'd perform. The difference in W/L record doesn't negate that similarity. An 8/12 record is only 4 games behind a 12/8 record.

Factor in that LBJ has been the best player in the league for ever, Wade was the best SG in the league, and many felt Bosh was a Top 5 PF. Nobody on OKC is the best player in the league, and only Westbrook could be argued to be the best at his position in the league. Melo isn't anywhere near Bosh's level as far as the 3rd wheels go. Additionally, OKC is in the West and MIA is in the East. Once all that's taken into consideration the 4 game difference between the two teams is virtually meaningless.

Nobody is saying that OKC is as good, or will be as good, as that MIA team. Just that both teams started out as massive disappointments, and that we shouldn't be so quick to write off OKC due to their early struggles.

 

[THE HCP]

I think the point of comparisons is to show that things are similar or different, not THE SAME or TOTALLY OPPOSITE. The comparison between MIA and OKC is apt - both were/are hugely disappointing based on how people thought they'd perform. The difference in W/L record doesn't negate that similarity. An 8/12 record is only 4 games behind a 12/8 record.

Factor in that LBJ has been the best player in the league for ever, Wade was the best SG in the league, and many felt Bosh was a Top 5 PF. Nobody on OKC is the best player in the league, and only Westbrook could be argued to be the best at his position in the league. Melo isn't anywhere near Bosh's level as far as the 3rd wheels go. Additionally, OKC is in the West and MIA is in the East. Once all that's taken into consideration the 4 game difference between the two teams is virtually meaningless.

Nobody is saying that OKC is as good, or will be as good, as that MIA team. Just that both teams started out as massive disappointments, and that we shouldn't be so quick to write off OKC due to their early struggles.

Hey man, anyway you can just post for me in the future? I'll give you a percentage of what Denny is sending my way to hang out in this dump. Let me know.


This is a private message right?

 

[blue9]

Hey man, anyway you can just post for me in the future? I'll give you a percentage of what Denny is sending my way to hang out in this dump. Let me know.


This is a private message right?

Yeah man, as long as the percentage is 200%<