On Oden:

[LittleAlex]

I will do what I do every year with players not named Roy. Namely, hope they get better the next year while being disappointed in their performance in the current year.

 

[Idog1976]

It's possible this will happen. It will probably be more frustrating for me then for Oden. I've been defending the guy like the English defended the hill on the St. Crispin's Day battle. The media and internets have sent wave after wave of haters but (Churchill voice) I will never surrender I will fight them on the beaches, I will fight them on the forums, I shall never surrender...

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Match what? We sign him to a contract extension by October 31, 2010 and he never even becomes an RFA. There will be no offers to match.

BNM

I was one year ahead. My thought is even if Oden stinks (which he won't), he won't sign an extention for cheap. Blazers either pay up or Oden tests the RFA route knowing many teams overpay for big men.

But sure, if the Blazers can extend Oden for a bargin, that would be great. Terrible agent for Oden, but great for the Blazers.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

Oden will struggle this year.. there is no doubt about that.

Since we made the mistake of drafting him over Kevin "The Assassin" Durant.. we have no choice but to ride it out with Oden.

But make no mistake about it - if Oden does not live up to the hype - we will never be serious championship contenders.

 

[Wheels]

Oden will struggle this year.. there is no doubt about that.

Since we made the mistake of drafting him over Kevin "The Assassin" Durant.. we have no choice but to ride it out with Oden.

But make no mistake about it - if Oden does not live up to the hype - we will never be serious championship contenders.

Sometimes I'd rather be around my wife during her time of the month, than listen to your incessant whining, and constant crying about the same thing.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Oden will struggle this year.. there is no doubt about that.

Since we made the mistake of drafting him over Kevin "The Assassin" Durant.. we have no choice but to ride it out with Oden.

But make no mistake about it - if Oden does not live up to the hype - we will never be serious championship contenders.

Are you who they are referring to when they say "hater", Hank?

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

Are you who they are referring to when they say "hater", Hank?

Probably - but I don't really hate Oden... I'm rooting for the guy... but people need to be real about who Oden is.

He is an offensive project and is injury prone - I've been saying it since before he was drafted.

Passing on Durant was a mistake.

 

[Wheels]

Probably - but I don't really hate Oden... I'm rooting for the guy... but people need to be real about who Oden is.

He is an offensive project and is injury prone - I've been saying it since before he was drafted.

Passing on Durant was a mistake.

we've heard you the 55 thousand times. Its not annoying that you feel that way, we just dont need to hear it over and over and over and over and over. So no I wasnt referring you to be Hater Hank.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Probably - but I don't really hate Oden... I'm rooting for the guy... but people need to be real about who Oden is.

He is an offensive project and is injury prone - I've been saying it since before he was drafted.

Passing on Durant was a mistake.

It may take a different coach and a different system to really bring out and highlight the strengths of Greg Oden. But I personally think, the magnitude of his impact, when it's all said and done, will be just as great if not far greater than Kevin Durant.

I don't mean scoring. The difference he is going to make is going to be same difference Ben Wallace made for Detroit years ago but it will be far more and it will be for a prolonged period of time.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

we've heard you the 55 thousand times. Its not annoying that you feel that way, we just dont need to hear it over and over and over and over and over. So no I wasnt referring you to be Hater Hank.

I bet if you count the number of posts in this forum you have made making apoligies for Odens crappy play last season - they would far outnumber the posts I have made calling him "The Big Disappointment".

 

[Wheels]

I bet if you count the number of posts in this forum you have made making apoligies for Odens crappy play last season - they would far outnumber the posts I have made calling him "The Big Disappointment".

actually I am far from an Oden apologist, check my posts thats fine by me. I guarantee you wont find em.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

It may take a different coach and a different system to really bring out and highlight the strengths of Greg Oden. But I personally think, the magnitude of his impact, when it's all said and done, will be just as great if not far greater than Kevin Durant.

I don't mean scoring. The difference he is going to make is going to be same difference Ben Wallace made for Detroit years ago but it will be far more and it will be for a prolonged period of time.

What are Oden's strenghts?

He has bad footwork, hands made of stone and makes questionable decisions.

There is not an offensive system out there that will change that - Oden has to put in the work on his own to get better. Something he refused to do when the Blazers asked him to stay in town this summer and work on his game.

Ben Wallace was a role player who was surrounded by 4 fantastic players in Detroit. His impact was way overrated in the media.. Joel Przybilla would have been an equal contributor on those Piston teams.

Kevin Durant is a superstar.

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

actually I am far from an Oden apologist, check my posts thats fine by me. I guarantee you wont find em.

I think the doubters are out there, because its difficult to see Durant tearing it up. I am a big time believer in Greg Oden.. I dont view him as someone who will dominate like Shaq or Hakeep or even David Robinson on Offense. But I do believe he will be every bit as equal as Dwight Howard on Offense as well as better on Defense. I see no reason why in 2 years Oden isnt averaging 18 and 14 with dominant defense.

Dwight Howard just led his team to the NBA finals and is easily a top 5 NBA player right now.

When you say Oden will be better both Offensively and Defensively than Dwight Howard - you lose all credibility and become an Apologist.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

What are Oden's strenghts?

He has bad footwork, hands made of stone and makes questionable decisions.

There is not an offensive system out there that will change that - Oden has to put in the work on his own to get better. Something he refused to do when the Blazers asked him to stay in town this summer and work on his game.

Ben Wallace was a role player who was surrounded by 4 fantastic players in Detroit. His impact was way overrated in the media.. Joel Przybilla would have been an equal contributor on those Piston teams.

Kevin Durant is a superstar.

First of all, I DID NOT say his impact would be in the scoring department. I don't know if you just didn't read my response or you just chose to ignore it.

When I said a change of system. I meant, it may take a change in the head coaching position and system to get him to come around. Defensive system could be one area. A system that will take Greg's talents, polish them and highlight them in a way that is very impactful for the team. All it takes is putting Greg in the right spots and position defensively. Poppavich and his system is one that would do this. His brute size and strength can and will take over from there. I guarantee you if Poppavich ever decides to take this roster. It is all over for the nba. For about ten years after that.

Where is his impact going to come from? Defense and rebounding. Just like Wallace's except in much higher magnitude, for many more years.

 

[Wheels]

Dwight Howard just led his team to the NBA finals and is easily a top 5 NBA player right now.

When you say Oden will be better both Offensively and Defensively than Dwight Howard - you lose all credibility and become an Apologist.

Oh so when I said Oden will be an equal on Offense.. that means better now? Sorry I understand now. And Defense why cant he be better? I have heard you say before that his offense stinks, but where is the bashing on his defense? I dont see how his Defense (his strength) and saying he will be better than Dwight on Defense, is his strength.. how am I an apologist again?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Dwight Howard just led his team to the NBA finals and is easily a top 5 NBA player right now.

When you say Oden will be better both Offensively and Defensively than Dwight Howard - you lose all credibility and become an Apologist.

ouch

 

[Wheels]

ouch

whats ouch? him misreading my post?

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

Oh so when I said Oden will be an equal on Offense.. that means better now? Sorry I understand now. And Defense why cant he be better? I have heard you say before that his offense stinks, but where is the bashing on his defense? I dont see how his Defense (his strength) and saying he will be better than Dwight on Defense, is his strength.. how am I an apologist again?

Oden has done nothing to suggest that he will be better than Dwight Howard at anything.

Oden's defense is bad - he has slow feet - reaches with his hands and leaves his feet at the wrong time.

His foul trouble did not come from a lack of experience like the apologists suggest - they came from his inability to play at the speed of the NBA.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Oden has done nothing to suggest that he will be better than Dwight Howard at anything.

Oden's defense is bad - he has slow feet - reaches with his hands and leaves his feet at the wrong time.

His foul trouble did not come from a lack of experience like the apologists suggest - they came from his inability to play at the speed of the NBA.

Oden has shown enough to make me feel that he could be devastating force defensively for years to come.

 

[elcap15]

Oden needs his own Big Man Coach. These young big men need a proven center to teach them the stuff (footwork, angles, keeping the ball high, etc.) they didnt learn in college.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

Oden needs his own Big Man Coach. These young big men need a proven center to teach them the stuff (footwork, angles, keeping the ball high, etc.) they didnt learn in college.

I have and will pound this into the ground.

Poppovich and David Robinson. Hire Gregg. Bring David with you Popp.

 

[Wheels]

Oden has done nothing to suggest that he will be better than Dwight Howard at anything.

Oden's defense is bad - he has slow feet - reaches with his hands and leaves his feet at the wrong time.

His foul trouble did not come from a lack of experience like the apologists suggest - they came from his inability to play at the speed of the NBA.

ah so since I never said Odens foul problems came from lack of experience.. I'm not an apologist then? do I have your approval?! *crosses fingers* All those problems you mentioned on Defense I fully expect to get better.

 

[Wheels]

I have and will pound this into the ground.

Poppovich and David Robinson. Hire Gregg. Bring David with you Popp.

I am a Nate supporter, but I would love to get Gregg Poppovich as a coach, but it wouldnt happen.

 

[RoyIsClutch07]

I am a Nate supporter, but I would love to get Gregg Poppovich as a coach, but it wouldnt happen.

It's not going to happen now. But who knows what the future holds.

 

[Wheels]

It's not going to happen now. But who knows what the future holds.

hey here's to hoping we can get a world class coach like Popp I would GLADLY be wrong on that one.

 

[Idog1976]

Oden has done nothing to suggest that he will be better than Dwight Howard at anything.

Oden's defense is bad - he has slow feet - reaches with his hands and leaves his feet at the wrong time.

His foul trouble did not come from a lack of experience like the apologists suggest - they came from his inability to play at the speed of the NBA.

I'm sorry you are factually wrong:

Per 36 and advanced.
Dwight Howard FG%.520 ORB% 12.2 TRB% 17.3 TS%.571 Dtrg 104 Ortg 111 Ppg 13.2 Trpg 11.2

Greg Oden FG% .564 ORB% 15.7 TRB% 20.0 TS% .599 Dtrg 104 Ortg 116 PPg 14.8 TRpg 11.6

Oden is ALREADY better on a per minute basis then Dwight was in his totally healthy non-MF recovery rookie season on a crappy team that was trying to develop him at all costs. Dwight edged him in assists and steals and FT%. On a per minute basis Oden was better at every other aspect of the game. Oden will develop just like Dwight did. Oden is bigger and has more reach by quite a bit. He may never recover the athleticism he had at OSU (on par with D. Ho a freak of nature) which speaks to his skill and size that he was better then Dwight in his rookie season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...um=1&p1=odengr01&y1=2009&p2=howardw01&y2=2005

Oden's problem is foul trouble which comes from footspeed which in turn comes from not doing any lower body heavy lifting until May 2009. I'm sorry but it's the HATERS who need apologists. Greg hasn't done anything wrong. Oh and he worked out all summer with Bayno in Ohio. So really you have opinion and not much else...

 

[Hank The Dwarf]

I'm sorry you are factually wrong:

Per 36 and advanced.
Dwight Howard FG%.520 ORB% 12.2 TRB% 17.3 TS%.571 Dtrg 104 Ortg 111 Ppg 13.2 Trpg 11.2

Greg Oden FG% .564 ORB% 15.7 TRB% 20.0 TS% .599 Dtrg 104 Ortg 116 PPg 14.8 TRpg 11.6

Oden is ALREADY better on a per minute basis then Dwight was in his totally healthy non-MF recovery rookie season on a crappy team that was trying to develop him at all costs. Dwight edged him in assists and steals and FT%. On a per minute basis Oden was better at every other aspect of the game. Oden will develop just like Dwight did. Oden is bigger and has more reach by quite a bit. He may never recover the athleticism he had at OSU (on par with D. Ho a freak of nature) which speaks to his skill and size that he was better then Dwight in his rookie season.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...um=1&p1=odengr01&y1=2009&p2=howardw01&y2=2005

Oden's problem is foul trouble which comes from footspeed which in turn comes from not doing any lower body heavy lifting until May 2009. I'm sorry but it's the HATERS who need apologists. Greg hasn't done anything wrong. Oh and he worked out all summer with Bayno in Ohio. So really you have opinion and not much else...

Per 36's are garbage.. Oden can't stay healthy enough or out of foul trouble long enough to make his per #'s worth looking at.

Also, don't forget that Howard was 19 years old as a rookie (straight from HS) and Oden was 2 years removed from a freshman season at college.

Stop Apologizing for Oden being very mediocre and injury prone. Just accept it and move on.

 

[mikeg]

I'm going to start getting pretty worried about Oden if I dont' see some major improvement from him this year, especially in (as everyone has already mentioned) the foul department and his back-to-the-basket game.

I've always felt that you can tell which guys are going to be really, really good by the end of their second year in the NBA. Guys that can *really* play are usually making "the leap" by then. I've tried to think of examples of guys who struggled mightily for the first few years of their career only to wind up being true stars, and I could only think of one: Chauncey Billups. I can't think of one elite big man who was not at least a little dominant by the end of their second year. Duncan, Ewing, Hakeem, Shaq, Yao, Howard, Dirk, Garnett, Malone, Amare, etc.... ALL those guys were well on their way to super stardom at an early point in their careers. Conversely, the guys who are mediocre at best (think Dampier or Ostertag) all kinda struggled from day one and never stopped.

I know there are injury issues in Oden's case, but for that "historical precedent" reason alone, I'm going to be worried if Oden doesn't take major strides this year. And I think the team may have to decide if they still want to sink major, major dollars into the development of the player.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Zach Randolph's per-36 during his rookie and second years predicted almost perfectly his stats as a starter:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randoza01.html

Advanced stats beyond the per-36's also show Zach's tendencies in the rebounding and shooting areas of the game. Also, his win shares were about the same from his second year onward.

What Oden will be next year will more accurately reflect his career path, to be certain. But the advanced stats do show an accurate picture of career trajectory to the point where we can start predicting a little based on the data.

Here's a couple others where per-36 was a good predictor:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robincl02.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kerseje01.html

Here's a couple of examples of players who have a nice fat bell-curve of improvement:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garneke01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/ewingpa01.html

 

[Idog1976]

Per 36's are garbage.. Oden can't stay healthy enough or out of foul trouble long enough to make his per #'s worth looking at.

Also, don't forget that Howard was 19 years old as a rookie (straight from HS) and Oden was 2 years removed from a freshman season at college.

Stop Apologizing for Oden being very mediocre and injury prone. Just accept it and move on.

See the post directly above this one Hank. Per 36 and advanced are not crap. Your theorizing and repeating of the media echo-chamber is what stinks in this thread. Feel free to claim Durant is better then Oden but to call him a bust is fricking ridiculous by ANY reasonable standard. So was Dwight Howard recovering from MF surgery in his Senior year of Highschool? Quit apologizing for your lack of actual facts, accept that you are making stuff up and move on.