On The Fan Isaac Ropp just said

[H.C.]

Remember when it was defence that won games? Is that gone now?

No, you need both offense and defense.
Cj for Butler or Lillard for Butler is a lateral move.
Simply because CJ + Butler or Lillard + Butler doesn't bring Portland any closer to a ring than Lillard+CJ.
Portland has 4 years left on Lillard+ CJ's contract. Unless your bringing back a better player who puts you in championship contention now. There is not reason to make moves, just to make moves.

I guess in today's NBA (specially in regular season) you could make a good case that offense wins over defense. However I still think when it comes to the playoffs defense wins over offense.

How many top 10 defensive teams, who weren't also a top 10 offense won it all in the past 20 years?
You must have offense and defense to win in the playoffs, teams who settle for one or the other don't win.

 

[tlongII]

We do not need help in the backcourt. We need help at PF and to a lesser extent at SF. This clamoring for Butler makes no sense to me.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yep, but it proves it only take one great offensive player to get hot at the right time to win it all - if he's surrounded by the right supporting cast. I still think Chandler was the key to that DAL championship team. They foolishly traded him away the following December for a trade exception to clear cap space to make a run at Dwight Howard.

BNM

Yep. Defense wins championships. Chandler, Brewer, Butler, Marion all great to above average defenders.

We have? Nurk.....maybe?

 

[Natebishop3]

We do not need help in the backcourt. We need help at PF and to a lesser extent at SF. This clamoring for Butler makes no sense to me.

Because he can play small forward? Because we have a plethora of other players that can play two guard? Because Butler is arguably a better and more well rounded player than CJ? Because...... I can't believe it's not butter?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Every once in a while a team with a culmination of talent can overcome the star driven league, but it's rare. The Pistons did it with Sheed/Billups/Hamilton/Big Ben. You could probably even argue that the Spurs did it a few years back when Duncan was in the twighlight of his career and Kawhi hadn't really achieved star status, but most of the teams that have won have done so with a superstar talent.

Cavs with LeBron
Warriors with Curry
Heat with LeBron
Mavs with Dirk
Lakers with Kobe
Celts with KG

gotta be a bit careful. Often players are granted superstar status after they win the championship.

 

[TBpup]

Remember when it was defence that won games? Is that gone now?

It still does. There was something like only one basket in the last 2-3 minutes of game 7 last year and that was a long jumper by Irving.

So how do you explain Kyrie and JR winning it all. They were ridiculed their whole career for their pathetic defense.

They were combined with the best player on the planet in the last 10 years. We have nothing close to that on this roster.

 

[Pinwheel1]

They were combined with the best player on the planet in the last 10 years. We have nothing close to that on this roster.

But the fact is their team defense improved surrounded by different players and a different defensive strategy. Hell they even had Love starting along with them. So my point is their defense or lack of is not set in stone like the poster wrote.

They don't need a Lebron to improve their D, but yes stud teammates are needed to make a jump.

 

[chzbrgr]

So how do you explain Kyrie and JR winning it all. They were ridiculed their whole career for their pathetic defense.

uhhh very easily....

Lebron fucking James

 

[chzbrgr]

But the fact is their team defense improved surrounded by different players and a different defensive strategy. Hell they even had Love starting along with them. So my point is their defense or lack of is not set in stone like the poster wrote.

They don't need a Lebron to improve their D, but yes stud teammates are needed to make a jump.

you cant just say he wasnt the reason when he lead the team in EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY

SMH with this fucking guy

Cavs brfore lebron
19-63//21-45//24-58//33-49

After
53-29(lost in the finals)//57-25 (Champs)

learn basketball then post

 

[Strenuus]

you cant just say he wasnt the reason when he lead the team in EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY

SMH with this fucking guy

Cavs brfore lebron
19-63//21-45//24-58//33-49

After
53-29(lost in the finals)//57-25 (Champs)

learn basketball then post

lol. it'll be okay.

 

[Pinwheel1]

you cant just say he wasnt the reason when he lead the team in EVERY STATISTICAL CATEGORY
SMH with this fucking guy
learn basketball then post

What are you talking about? The post was comparing Kyrie and JR Smith's defense compared to CJ and Dame. It was said by you and I quote : "It is fair to say that these two together will not be able to cut it defensively, because to date they haven't been. It's that simple."

Well IMO it's not that simple. I pointed out that Kyrie and JR actually did get better defensively and they started on a championship team. Of course Lebron was a huge factor but so was the scheme, and it was also because they put more effort into it. If you knew basketball as much as you claim you do you would know players can get better defensively. Just look at every player who gets traded to SA. They all improve significantly. Patty Mills is a great example. If he can, so can Dame and CJ, especially surrounded by better defensive players.

And I never said Lebron was not the reason they won the championship. Of course he was. How about you learn how to read and then fucking post?

 

[BigGameDamian]

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[chzbrgr]

What are you talking about? The post was comparing Kyrie and JR Smith's defense compared to CJ and Dame. It was said by you and I quote : "It is fair to say that these two together will not be able to cut it defensively, because to date they haven't been. It's that simple."

Well IMO it's not that simple. I pointed out that Kyrie and JR actually did get better defensively and they started on a championship team. Of course Lebron was a huge factor but so was the scheme, and it was also because they put more effort into it. If you knew basketball as much as you claim you do you would know players can get better defensively. Just look at every player who gets traded to SA. They all improve significantly. Patty Mills is a great example. If he can, so can Dame and CJ, especially surrounded by better defensive players.

And I never said Lebron was not the reason they won the championship. Of course he was. How about you learn how to read and then fucking post?

You dont even read what you post do you?

You asked how I could 'ever explain Kyrie and JR winning a chip if they are so bad defensively' and I answered you with what is obvious to anyone who actually watches basketball that when you have a top-3 player all time who has made 7-8 consecutive finals appearances its pretty easy to discern why. The crux of your argument is that if we had lebron or kawhi or KD then it wouldnt matter if dame and Cj are bad defensively (thank you captain obvious). You're not wrong, but over here in the real world, where... you know... they actually play the games, I hate to break it to you but Hall of Fame players dont just show up one day. Which leads us round robin back to the start of this whole debacle which is the fact; you know what a fact is dont you? That Dame and Cj have not shown at any time in their careers to be even average defensively. Go ahead and try to find some evidence but Im not gunna hold my breath that some day they will magically figure out how to navigate a screen or stay in front of their man. If "defense wins championships" and if that is the stated goal of the franchise it is more than fair to assume that they cant cut it (because they have shown no ability to) on the defensive side. Not that I dont love how they play the game on offense, or who they are, but players arent judged by regular season wins or what could have been if they had one of the 3 best players of all time fall into their lap.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I feel an edit and warning coming up.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I feel an edit and warning coming up.

Ya think?

 

[Hobbesarable]

I feel an edit and warning coming up.

I got my big laugh for the day!

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ya think?

Hey, I'm just glad i'm not the most recent on that list anymore!!!!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Fucking dumbass

You were fine up until here. I'm pretty sure even you now that is a personal insult.

BNM

 

[Pinwheel1]

You dont even read what you post do you? Or does it just come out as a stream of consciousness ignorance or what?

You asked how I could 'ever explain Kyrie and JR winning a chip if they are so bad defensively' and I answered you with what is obvious to anyone who actually watches basketball that when you have a top-3 player all time who has made 7-8 consecutive finals appearances its pretty easy to discern why. The crux of your argument is that if we had lebron or kawhi or KD then it wouldnt matter if dame and Cj are bad defensively (thank you captain obvious). You're not wrong, but over here in the real world, where... you know... they actually play the games, I hate to break it to you but Hall of Fame players dont just show up one day. Which leads us round robin back to the start of this whole debacle which is the fact; you know what a fact is dont you? That Dame and Cj have not shown at any time in their careers to be even average defensively. Go ahead and try to find some evidence but Im not gunna hold my breath that some day they will magically figure out how to navigate a screen or stay in front of their man. If "defense wins championships" and if that is the stated goal of the franchise it is more than fair to assume that they cant cut it (because they have shown no ability to) on the defensive side. Not that I dont love how they play the game on offense, or who they are, but players arent judged by regular season wins or what could have been if they had one of the 3 best players of all time fall into their lap.

Learn basketball then post....Fucking dumbass

I am not going pick at your whole post, but what you are missing from my point is the fact that Kyrie and JR did improve their defense. You can't possibly have watched the finals and not acknowledge the improvement that Kyrie in particular, has made in that area. Yes they won it all because of Lebron, but Lebron just like everyone else in the history of basketball, has to have help. Otherwise he would have won it his first time in Cleveland. If Kyrie and JR (and KLove for that matter) had not improved their team defense, then Cleveland would still be winless in the finals. You have admit ......they got better!

Again SA is a better example. Sure they have had some great players, but it's the system that makes the difference on D. You go to SA your defense tends to improve, you leave and your defense tends to get worse. Now granted we are not getting POP in your "real world" but these are not the only examples. To make a blanket statement that players like Dame and CJ can't improve their D makes no sense to me.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Ya think?

Did you just change my name from Captain Obnoxious to Captain Obvious???

 

[BonesJones]

My biggest issue with trading CJ or Lillard for Butler is it seems like a move, just to make a move.
Yes Butler is better defensively by a good margin.
But CJ or Lillard are better offensively by a good margin.
I'm against Portland moving CJ or Lillard if it's basically a lateral move.
And frankly... for everything Portland would gain defensively, they'd lose it on the offensive end regardless who they moved.
Not to mention looking at the big picture, Portland holds all the cards in terms of contract for Lillard & CJ.
So it doesn't make sense to make a move just to make one.

Now if Portland can acquire Butler without CJ/Lillard being involved.. I'm all for it.

I honestly think Khris Middleton would have the same impact here. Good defender, bigger, better shooter, creates shots..

We need to get players like that, as they won't cost as much as Butler and will be just as valuable.

 

[H.C.]

I honestly think Khris Middleton would have the same impact here. Good defender, bigger, better shooter, creates shots..

We need to get players like that, as they won't cost as much as Butler and will be just as valuable.

Admittedly I have maybe watched Middleton once, maybe twice in his career.
I couldn't really offer much to a discussion on him, other than I'm not sure how available he is for draft picks + crabbe or something.
Bucks seem to be turning things around, knock on wood as they were doing the same thing before they signed Monroe

 

[Boob-No-More]

I honestly think Khris Middleton would have the same impact here. Good defender, bigger, better shooter, creates shots..

We need to get players like that, as they won't cost as much as Butler and will be just as valuable.

The thing is, you don't need to tank for guys like Kris Middelton, Jimmy Butler or even Kawhi Leonard. All those guys were picked later than where we'll be picking this year. All draft picks are a crap shoot, but the real key is having the scouting to improve your odds of getting a solid contributor no matter where you are picking.

Given that we have three first round picks this year, we have the potential to get the next Kawhi Leonard (15th), the next Jimmy Butler (30th) and the next Kris Middleton (39th) all in this one draft. It will never happen, but even if we only hit the jackpot on one of our first round picks, it will be a significant help - even if we make the playoffs and miss out on the lottery.

That's where having three first round picks helps, you increase your odds of hitting a home run.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

The thing is, you don't need to tank for guys like Kris Middelton, Jimmy Butler or even Kawhi Leonard. All those guys were picked later than where we'll be picking this year. All draft picks are a crap shoot, but the real key is having the scouting to improve your odds of getting a solid contributor no matter where you are picking.

Given that we have three first round picks this year, we have the potential to get the next Kawhi Leonard (15th), the next Jimmy Butler (30th) and the next Kris Middleton (39th) all in this one draft. It will never happen, but even if we only hit the jackpot on one of our first round picks, it will be a significant help - even if we make the playoffs and miss out on the lottery.

That's where having three first round picks helps, you increase your odds of hitting a home run.

BNM

I am really surprised with all the tank talk, this has not been emphasized more. What does it matter where you draft if you cant properly scout?

I would think it much more important for us to be scouting NOW and HARD CORE, than even thinking about tanking, whether tanking happens or not. The scouting is much more important than the actual pick.

This post is top 3 protected of course.

 

[Mediocre Man]

The thing is, you don't need to tank for guys like Kris Middelton, Jimmy Butler or even Kawhi Leonard. All those guys were picked later than where we'll be picking this year. All draft picks are a crap shoot, but the real key is having the scouting to improve your odds of getting a solid contributor no matter where you are picking.

Given that we have three first round picks this year, we have the potential to get the next Kawhi Leonard (15th), the next Jimmy Butler (30th) and the next Kris Middleton (39th) all in this one draft. It will never happen, but even if we only hit the jackpot on one of our first round picks, it will be a significant help - even if we make the playoffs and miss out on the lottery.

That's where having three first round picks helps, you increase your odds of hitting a home run.

BNM

The only thing higher draft picks gives you is the ability to draft from a bigger pool. If record had nothing to do with draft position, every team would rather draft first than 15th. Gotta scout

 

[Orion Bailey]

The only thing higher draft picks gives you is the ability to draft from a bigger pool. If record had nothing to do with draft position, every team would rather draft first than 15th. Gotta scout

Yep. Scouting is much more important than going from the 15th pick to the 10th in my opinion.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I am really surprised with all the tank talk, this has not been emphasized more. What does it matter where you draft if you cant properly scout?

I would think it much more important for us to be scouting NOW and HARD CORE, than even thinking about tanking, whether tanking happens or not. The scouting is much more important than the actual pick.

This post is top 3 protected of course.

See, those top 3 might have produced a better post.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yep. Scouting is much more important than going from the 15th pick to the 10th in my opinion.

True. But if scouting is the same at 15 or 10 for a team like Portland, 10 would be better

 

[Orion Bailey]

See, those top 3 might have produced a better post.

Shut the hell up. I am laughing in the office again and have been told in the past to keep it to a minimum. Im sending my PR lady after you!!!!