On the other hand…

[Boomchakalaka2]

What if Cronin and his cronies have plans to keep our vets and make a splash at the playoffs?

We trade #7 and #14 to Houston and hope Ricarcher falls to #3. And that’s where draft night excitement ends?

And one blockbuster Summer trade:

Ant Simons + Thybulle to NY
For
Julius Randle

Ayton / Williams III /Reath
Randle / Walker
Grant / Risacher / Camara
Sharpe / Banton / Rupert
Scoot / Brogdan

playoff team? Good mix of youth and vets? Simons gets moved making room for Sharpe & Scoot minutes

With plenty of draft capital over the next few years
———-
I wonder if this is how Cronin is thinking?

 

[illmatic99]

pivoting to this 10 months after trading dame would be incredibly idiotic

....so i fully expect our directionless FO to do such a thing.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

pivoting to this 10 months after trading dame would be incredibly idiotic

....so i fully expect our directionless FO to do such a thing.

Dame was the one who wanted out! Blazers gave him an extension but he wanted to go play with Miami. And in hindsight, we simply couldn’t put a team around a $52 million a year point guard - and win a title.

My point with this thread is for us to consider what things might look like should Cronin be attempting a “makeover” versus a “rebuild.” Structuring a team capable of making the playoffs while grooming young players:

Ayton / he’s just 26 in July
Randle / certainly tradable at the deadline if we are not in contention. Same goes for Williams.
Grant / certainly tradable at the deadline for more draft assets and opening up playing time for Risacher
Sharpe / will have his playing time
Scoot / will get his and our guards will have Brogdan as player-coach. Trade Brogdan at the deadline for an asset and clear cap space if we are not in contention

We might even able to be under the luxury tax with this approach. And quite honestly, this “tanking” is not sustainable. Gotta keep things exciting and win more than 21 games.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dame was the one who wanted out!

yeah, he had shown no loyalty for the Blazers or the city

 

[illmatic99]

Dame was the one who wanted out! Blazers gave him an extension but he wanted to go play with Miami. And in hindsight, we simply couldn’t put a team around a $52 million a year point guard - and win a title.

dame had not asked for a trade when Cronin decided our best move on draft night 2023 was to take a 19 yr old PG, and 2 other rookies after repeatedly preaching to go for vets.

so please, save me the revisionist history

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

dame had not asked for a trade when Cronin decided our best move on draft night 2023 was to take a 19 yr old PG, and 2 other rookies after repeatedly preaching to go for vets.

so please, save me the revisionist history

writing was on the wall by draft night; Blazers were not going to field a title-contending team around Dame and is zillions

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

yeah, he had shown no loyalty for the Blazers or the city

Never suggested it.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

Guys! Dame is no longer a Blazer. We got what we got.

Just suggesting we take a look at what Cronin may be considering other than three more years of tanking and trading away all of our vets.

No thoughts on this?

 

[blazerkor]

This is a bullshit, shit on Dame thread. It's gross. Joe told us and Dame that he was going to build a contender around Dame so many times and then did the opposite after, every time making moves like it was going to be a rebuild not building towards immediate wins and now some are saying Joe can't even fully commit to that?

If that's the case fuck Joe and his apologists! (No personal insults intended)

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

This is a bullshit, shit on Dame thread. It's gross. Joe told us and Dame that he was going to build a contender around Dame so many times and then did the opposite after, every time making moves like it was going to be a rebuild not building towards immediate wins and now some are saying Joe can't even fully commit to that?

If that's the case fuck Joe and his apologists! (No personal insults intended)

Bill Walton, Brandon Roy, Damian Lillard - oh! and Carmelo (just kidding) are my all time Blazer favorites. No need to say this thread has anything to do with shitting on Dame. For the third time, I don’t see Lillard on the team any longer, I can’t imagine that this tanking can be sustainable and keep fans in the seats AND we have Ayton, Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan. And we have an unfortunate logjam at guard and the consensus here seems that Ant Simons must go in order to open up playing time for Sharpe and Scoot.

You really think Cronin is going to get rid of Ayton, Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan AND Simons by opening of training camp?

 

[blazerkor]

Bill Walton, Brandon Roy, Damian Lillard - oh! and Carmelo (just kidding) are my all time Blazer favorites. No need to say this thread has anything to do with shitting on Dame. For the third time, I don’t see Lillard on the team any longer, I can’t imagine that this tanking can be sustainable and keep fans in the seats AND we have Ayton, Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan. And we have an unfortunate logjam at guard and the consensus here seems that Ant Simons must go in order to open up playing time for Sharpe and Scoot.

You really think Cronin is going to get rid of Ayton, Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan AND Simons by opening of training camp?

I don't think Joe will do the right thing and that would be to get rid of at least Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan... Ant really hurts the two young guards we drafted instead of trying to keep Dame so hopefully he would go too.

I'm not even saying you're wrong. This is the kind of bullshit Joe might pull, I'm just saying it's pathetic and disgusting as a Blazers fan, if our front office won't commit to contending or rebuilding.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

I don't think Joe will do the right thing and that would be to get rid of at least Williams, Grant, Thybulle and Brogdan... Ant really hurts the two young guards we drafted instead of trying to keep Dame so hopefully he would go too.

I'm not even saying you're wrong. This is the kind of bullshit Joe might pull, I'm just saying it's pathetic and disgusting as a Blazers fan, if our front office won't commit to contending or rebuilding.

and it’s not easy rebuilding by tanking, falling to #7 because all hopes were placed on the way ping pong balls would bounce, year after year. Look! Our “young Simons” has now gotten too old for our so-called rebuild!

I personally am not a great believer in total rebuilds. Name a champion that was comprised of all draft picks.

 

[Whyachi]

Anfernee is trapped. He can't escape. Ant is super-glued to Cronin & Billups. The next step is to give Simons soo much money, he won't ever complain about his team getting punked in this dejavu losing atmosphere. Kinda like Grant. We never see Jerami getting upset after losses.

"incentives" are plentiful to hang with Jody's retooly rebuilders. Free vacation before the season ends. Some stat padding in garbage time. Getting yanked early when the game is out of reach. A head coach that ignores losing efforts. Reporters that get paid to smootch. And Lamar Hurd, who lathers up every Blazer with All-Star level talent while the game is on TV.

 

[Whyachi]

Guys! Dame is no longer a Blazer. We got what we got.

Just suggesting we take a look at what Cronin may be considering other than three more years of tanking and trading away all of our vets.

No thoughts on this?

the GM is confused. It was a tsunami of Blazer injuries last season.

Cronin is a basketball computer, and the hard drives turned into floppy disks. Joe watched the bad losses with the squeal of a dial-up modem in the background.

I think Joe actually believes this team doesn't need any more help to be competitive. Fans are allowed to use the Memphis comp, a playoff team with a ton of injuries and a oft-suspended gat toting All-Star.

Unless it's a future pick, Joe ain't trading nothing. There's no rolling the dice anymore in Portland. It just is what it is, and will be what it becomes.

 

[Hoopguru]

What if Cronin and his cronies have plans to keep our vets and make a splash at the playoffs?

We trade #7 and #14 to Houston and hope Ricarcher falls to #3. And that’s where draft night excitement ends?

And one blockbuster Summer trade:

Ant Simons + Thybulle to NY
For
Julius Randle

Ayton / Williams III /Reath
Randle / Walker
Grant / Ricarcher / Camara
Sharpe / Banton / Rupert
Scoot / Brogdan

playoff team? Good mix of youth and vets? Simons gets moved making room for Sharpe & Scoot minutes

With plenty of draft capital over the next few years
———-
I wonder if this is how Cronin is thinking?

It sure could be....

 

[Hoopguru]

We will soon find out based on who's on the team come training camp. But yeah, it may take till trade deadline to really figure out what the plan is or isn't?

 

[Hoopguru]

Like Atlanta did, we could try for at least the playin, this year and possibly still end up in lottery and winning the Damn thing.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Anfernee is trapped. He can't escape. Ant is super-glued to Cronin & Billups. The next step is to give Simons soo much money, he won't ever complain about his team getting punked in this dejavu losing atmosphere. Kinda like Grant. We never see Jerami getting upset after losses.

"incentives" are plentiful to hang with Jody's retooly rebuilders. Free vacation before the season ends. Some stat padding in garbage time. Getting yanked early when the game is out of reach. A head coach that ignores losing efforts. Reporters that get paid to smootch. And Lamar Hurd, who lathers up every Blazer with All-Star level talent while the game is on TV.

What can we get with a package of Ant & Billups?

 

[Ed O]

This is a bullshit, shit on Dame thread.

No it's not. It is a thread where someone gave a trade idea. Then someone disagreed with it because it made no sense, since we'd just traded Dame. Then the OP said Dame wanted out.

I don't see how anyone could read that as a "shit on Dame thread", personally.

In terms of the original idea: I actually don't hate it.

In terms of what I'd prefer as approaches for the team go:

1. Trade Grant and Bogdan. Go all-in on the rebuild and get more high-end young talent to join Scoot and Sharpe.
2. Make the OP's trade. We would be balanced better and while we wouldn't be great, we would be more competitive.
3. Keep the team as is.

Randle might be too shoot-first, and/or he might not be able to do enough things to make the team good, but he's about the same level of player that Simons is, and he doesn't play the same spot that Scoot/Brogdan/Sharpe do, so it would probably be a lateral move talent-wise but a positive move in the standings.

In terms of Dame:

• As the OP said, he's gone. What's done is done.
• He is going to be 34 next month. Randle is almost five years younger, and Scoot is almost 13.5 years younger.
• He is owed a LOT of money that might turn into a huge albatross as he turns 36+

Again: I would prefer to tear down and rebuild, rather than half-assing it, but this would be better than our current half-assing efforts.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

No it's not. It is a thread where someone gave a trade idea. Then someone disagreed with it because it made no sense, since we'd just traded Dame. Then the OP said Dame wanted out.

* I don't see how anyone could read that as a "shit on Dame thread", personally.

In terms of the original idea: I actually don't hate it.

In terms of what I'd prefer as approaches for the team go:

1. Trade Grant and Bogdan. Go all-in on the rebuild and get more high-end young talent to join Scoot and Sharpe.
2. Make the OP's trade. We would be balanced better and while we wouldn't be great, we would be more competitive.
3. Keep the team as is.

*Randle might be too shoot-first, and/or he might not be able to do enough things to make the team good, but he's about the same level of player that Simons is, and he doesn't play the same spot that Scoot/Brogdan/Sharpe do, so it would probably be a lateral move talent-wise but a positive move in the standings.

In terms of Dame:

• As the OP said, he's gone. What's done is done.
• He is going to be 34 next month. Randle is almost five years younger, and Scoot is almost 13.5 years younger.
• He is owed a LOT of money that might turn into a huge albatross as he turns 36+

Again: I would prefer to tear down and rebuild, rather than half-assing it, but this would be better than our current half-assing efforts.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

I don’t see this [my post] as a “horrible” approach;
* As much as I like Ant, we must invest in Sharpe and Scoot and playing time coupled with the mentorship of Brogdan (at least until the trade deadline) is in line with the “rebuild” thinking;
*Grant can contribute as well as mentor Ricarcher if we find a way to draft him;
*Randle, if he can play next to Ayton, gives us a pretty decent front court. I think our second round picks need to focus upon finding a Center and/or Power Forward prospect. We simply don’t need guards;

*I don’t want to create a roster of 22 year olds that can’t win games. This builds a culture of losing and accepting losses - which is my problem with the past two years and Billups; an “it’s ok that we lost because we are young and learning” crap. I prefer to structure a team that is competitive, and is flexible come the trade deadlines this and next year. Randle, Ayton, Grant and Thybulle all have 3+ years remaining which is perfect for having flexibility at the trade deadline this and next year.

 

[riverman]

I'd have no problem with a win now roster...3 years of tanking is about as much as I can stand..I do want Ant gone and I'd like to upgrade the coaching staff. Example....I like Banton more than any of the guards they've brought into look at so far. What rookie is going to take his roster spot?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'd have no problem with a win now roster...3 years of tanking is about as much as I can stand..I do want Ant gone and I'd like to upgrade the coaching staff. Example....I like Banton more than any of the guards they've brought into look at so far. What rookie is going to take his roster spot?

Kyshawn George, but I doubt he falls to the 2nd round. About the same height but a better defender and 3pt shooter.

 

[inconceivable]

I'd have no problem with a win now roster...3 years of tanking is about as much as I can stand..I do want Ant gone and I'd like to upgrade the coaching staff. Example....I like Banton more than any of the guards they've brought into look at so far. What rookie is going to take his roster spot?

You are essentially asking in what order would Delano Banton get picked in this draft? Intriguing. Idk the answer but I sure hope whoever we pick at 7 is better than him

 

[HansenYang]

Kyshawn George, but I doubt he falls to the 2nd round. About the same height but a better defender and 3pt shooter.

Honest question here.

What makes Cody Williams a better player than George here?
From my perspective, they are extremely similar in regards to strengths/weaknesses.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

I'd have no problem with a win now roster...3 years of tanking is about as much as I can stand..I do want Ant gone and I'd like to upgrade the coaching staff. Example....I like Banton more than any of the guards they've brought into look at so far. What rookie is going to take his roster spot?

To be clear, I’m not proposing a “win now” roster, proof being a starting backcourt of Scoot and Sharpe. That said, I believe their [Scoot and Sharpe] growth and maturation will come quicker by playing with veteran talent (Ayton, Grant, Williams, Randle) versus two years of playing next to a roster 18-22 year olds. I think a successful “rebuild” should focus upon the play of Scoot and Sharp while possibly phasing in a SF like Risacher. Over the next two years we can then move on from Grant, Williams, Brogdan) adding to our draft capital or by trading for young talent that can be a good fit with our rebuilding program. In summation, you can’t rebuild with a roster made up of 13 players under 23 years old. This will only result in creating a losing culture, players leaving after their rookie contracts expire and years of sloppy and losing basjetball.

Rebuild with strategy! Let’s first develop our backcourt, phase in our wing and followed by our front court. In the meantime, play each game to win! Not “win now,” rather, coach and play each and every game to win. This will build a winning culture during our couple years of rebuilding.

I’d be excited to watch Scoot and Sharpe playing with Grant, Randle and Ayton with Risacher getting minutes replacing Grant and Banton and Brogdan replacing Scoot and Sharpe. Williams and Reath taking turns replacing Ayton, Walker replacing Randle and so on.

A rebuild that still has talent will develop the young guys as we all learn from people that are more experienced than ourselves.

 

[Ed O]

I'd have no problem with a win now roster...3 years of tanking is about as much as I can stand..I do want Ant gone and I'd like to upgrade the coaching staff. Example....I like Banton more than any of the guards they've brought into look at so far. What rookie is going to take his roster spot?

I would argue we have NOT been tanking... we've been terrible, but that's different.

Tanking (IMO) is getting rid of veterans and adding high-level young players. It's taking on bad contract in return for getting future value and/or out from under long term deals.

The Blazers got rid of Dame and... really no other veterans.

They Blazers have added Sharpe and Scoot and... really no other high-level young players. (Ant and Ayton are too well paid to qualifty, and I just am not impressed by any other young guys on the roster at this point to the point where they should be a building block in the long run.)

And we haven't taken on any contracts in return for value. To the contrary, we have given Grant and Thybulle big contracts.

I respect that you can't take the team being bad for much longer, but at least with tanking there's a plan for getting younger and better, rather than getting a little younger and worse.

 

[riverman]

we have given Grant and Thybulle big contracts.

I think Thybulle's contract is a steal....hardly what I'd call a big contract for what he brings

 

[riverman]

To be clear, I’m not proposing a “win now” roster, proof being a starting backcourt of Scoot and Sharpe. That said, I believe their [Scoot and Sharpe] growth and maturation will come quicker by playing with veteran talent (Ayton, Grant, Williams, Randle) versus two years of playing next to a roster 18-22 year olds. I think a successful “rebuild” should focus upon the play of Scoot and Sharp while possibly phasing in a SF like Risacher. Over the next two years we can then move on from Grant, Williams, Brogdan) adding to our draft capital or by trading for young talent that can be a good fit with our rebuilding program. In summation, you can’t rebuild with a roster made up of 13 players under 23 years old. This will only result in creating a losing culture, players leaving after their rookie contracts expire and years of sloppy and losing basjetball.

Rebuild with strategy! Let’s first develop our backcourt, phase in our wing and followed by our front court. In the meantime, play each game to win! Not “win now,” rather, coach and play each and every game to win. This will build a winning culture during our couple years of rebuilding.

I’d be excited to watch Scoot and Sharpe playing with Grant, Randle and Ayton with Risacher getting minutes replacing Grant and Banton and Brogdan replacing Scoot and Sharpe. Williams and Reath taking turns replacing Ayton, Walker replacing Randle and so on.

A rebuild that still has talent will develop the young guys as we all learn from people that are more experienced than ourselves.

I'm one of those odd fans who thinks that even losing in theplayoffs is the best way to develop rookies. and rookie coaches.....so to me not making the playoffs with Scoot and Sharpe hurts Scoot and Sharpe's development. Hurts a coaching staff as well. Chauncey has never coached a playoff game as a head coach.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

I'm one of those odd fans who thinks that even losing in theplayoffs is the best way to develop rookies. and rookie coaches.....so to me not making the playoffs with Scoot and Sharpe hurts Scoot and Sharpe's development. Hurts a coaching staff as well. Chauncey has never coached a playoff game as a head coach.

1000% Play every game to win or don’t play!

 

[BonesJones]

writing was on the wall by draft night; Blazers were not going to field a title-contending team around Dame and is zillions

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?