One and Done...Done?

[dviss1]

yep....if a hs kid was so talented in computer science or any other specialty field and a Corporation wanted to sign him/her, thats the American Way. Corporations will even pay for most to finish school or pursue masters.
There should never be any restraints on the market as it can correct itself or adjust to various changes.

I don't agree with your free market ish.

There is no such thing as a free market in this country.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Pay?

Seems simple enough. If the kid stays in the farm club, one scale of pay. If he gets called up, obviously another.

 

[dviss1]

Seems simple enough. If the kid stays in the farm club, one scale of pay. If he gets called up, obviously another.

Exactly. Why do that? I'd rather play ball overseas.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Exactly. Why do that? I'd rather play ball overseas.

Great. Like Baseball, if a kid gets a better offer overseas, that is his option. There is no reason that it has to one or the other.

 

[CupWizier]

Do you think teams will pick that many HSers? I don't. At least not enough to make the risk worthwhile for the would-be HS draftees. I think college players will still make up the bulk of those drafted. If during the first year 15 HSers declare and only 5 of them get drafted, leaving 10 ineligible, that'll make future HSers think twice before declaring.

Past history proves otherwise as teams began drafting high schoolers for fear of missing out and the 1st round was constantly littered with players that shouldn't have been drafted. It was the reason they went to the one and done rule.

 

[oldfisherman]

I think kids out of HS that didn't go play college ball should enter the league through the G league....and have to sign a 2 way contract for the first 2 years...if college players have to play two years...HS prospects would have to do the same in the development league...making the development league more exciting for fans as well....every team should have a minor league affiliate as well..

Brilliant. I'm tired of the NBA being the development league for a couple of super teams.

Make the kids prove they can play at a higher level than high school, but still make money, with a chance to make the big bucks.

 

[riverman]

Why is baseball 6% black? Because they don't want to go through the farm leagues to wait to get paid.

I don't buy this sentiment....why is baseball overwhelmingly Hispanic then? They want to get paid too and they do get paid in the minors...just don't become overnight millionaires which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most ball players bounce back and forth between the minors and majors...if you're good enough to stick and stay healthy you get paid...and everyone wants to get paid, not just black athletes....anyone can choose another path, play overseas, etc....but in baseball you definitely earn your paycheck...in basketball prospects often get paid that don't work out....I like the baseball system....I love that you can send a slumping player to the minors and bring a better player into the rotation seamlessly....and that the slumping player can turn it around in the minors and get his job back with the majors ...it's all earned....no production....no big paycheck

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't agree with your free market ish.

There is no such thing as a free market in this country.

If thats the you fell its ok with me.
When I pop into Starbucks and they tell me that their coffee's are market priced because of all the competition or price out vehicles new or used, the market prey much sets price based on many factors.
If my wife wants to drag me to a casino and contribute a few bucks to the Res, she can do it.
When I shop now days for just about anything I along with millions of others use the net to research and market price.
I guess since the Gov does collect taxes and requires licesnse on many things it could be considered a mixed enterprise very free enterprise economy and market.

 

[Hoopguru]

Exactly. Why do that? I'd rather play ball overseas.

Play in what ever market one chooses.
If oversee's, allow's a young person to earn a good living while growing as a player, thats super!
The World market is now offering viable options when it comes to sports.

 

[Hoopguru]

Here's a complicated idea that I like. NBA rules are very complicated in terms of CBA rules, especially towards the salary cap, player acquisitions, etc. So this wouldn't be out of the ordinary in terms of complications. However, I think I covered every scenario to make this make sense. If you understand what I'm getting at with this idea, let me know. I think it'd be very cool, fun, and invigorating for the NCAA and NBA, while also giving young athletes more options.

Drafted Out of High School(18):
Straight to Pro Ranks (G-League) *(Each team would have it's own G-League Team)*
- Playing two years in a two-way player type of situation, but on a rookie scale contract. They would be allowed to play in 18 games without being able to play NBA games after the all-star break to the end of March. They'd be allowed to play in April with an expanded roster slot, but wouldn't be allowed to play in the Playoffs.. We could simply call these players "prospects" instead of "two-way players", as they aren't true two-way players. An NBA team would have 14 "Core" Roster Slots, 4 "Swing" Roster Slots, and 12 "G-League" Roster Slots. Swing roster slots would be any two-way or "prospect" player. The NBA team would only be allowed to have 2 swing players up at one time. A G-League player could be converted to a swing player and replace any swing player that hasn't played an NBA game yet.
Straight to Pro Ranks (International)
If a player played overseas, the NBA team would still pay him the rookie scale contract. Basically, drafting the player and bringing him into the professional ranks locks them into their rookie contract, no matter what they do. This would give the players the ability to earn an NBA paycheck straight out of high school.
College Basketball
- Going to college for two years then going to the league (no contract for two years, but the money they'd make would if they were in the D-league would be paid as a "signing bonus" when they make the jump to full-time NBA). The NBA team would own the players rights, even though they're playing in college. Would kind of work like a two year draft and stash, but the stash would be keeping them at the college level.
*Players would be allowed to play summer league and in the pre-season, even if they're college players. This could result in high school players getting drafted, committing to a college, playing summer league and NBA pre-season, then reporting to their college team. Players may not play in PS if they can't handle that plus their academics.
*Players could play a year of college basketball than play a year of G-League/International basketball. However, they cannot play a year of G-League/International basketball and then play a year of college.
Drafted After Freshmen Year (19):
A player could enter the draft after their freshmen year of college. The team that drafts them would have the choice of:
- Playing one year on a prospect contract or internationally. These players would be allowed to play 22-games without being allowed to play NBA games between the ASB and beginning of April. At the beginning of April, they would be allowed to play for the rest of the season and playoffs, as rosters expand (read below)
- Playing one more year at the college they attended.
- Same situation as above, just one year less.
*Interesting Caveat: You could allow NBA teams to renounce a college player they own the rights to at any time. They would have to pay said player the "signing bonus" explained above, but by renouncing the rights to said player, the team would get awarded a draft pick in the next upcoming draft. That pick would be two-five picks below where they drafted the player they renounced. The renounced player would be allowed to enter the NBA draft again, and get re-drafted. This would lead to interesting strategies, and would make sending a player to college compared to signing them to a making them just as incentivizing. Two-way players.

Rosters Expand:
In April, NBA Rosters would be expanded from 14 to 16 players. The 2 additional players could be players in college or on G-Leauge, two-way contracts, or in the last year of their prospect contract (one-year removed from HS). The MLB expands rosters in September, and this would be similar. You'd essentially have players on G-League Prospect Contracts as well as college players that could become "fully pro" with this roster expansion. The NBA team would have the option of releasing one of their core 14 players to make way for a third player going "fully pro".
1st-year college players would be allowed to play after the national championship game and until the end of the season, but not playoffs. They wouldn't be allowed to get payed (per NCAA-NBA agreement), and would basically have 10 days to showcase their talent at the NBA level.
2nd-year college players would be allowed to play for their NBA team after the national championship game, for the rest of the season and playoffs. 2nd-year college players would essentially be "going pro" immediately after the national championship game, and therefore wouldn't be restricted to any NCAA rules.

How this would look:
- You'd have some top players playing two years in college before entering the draft. You'd have some top players getting drafted and still playing two years in college. You'd have some good players playing in the G-League or internationally because they want to earn a paycheck immediately.
- The G-League would become a true 30-team minor league, with each NBA team owning their own team.
- NBA teams are not allowed to be in contact with college teams, even though said college teams might have their player. They are allowed to be in contact/workout said players before and after the college basketball season (
- NCAA would allow players to retain eligibility even with the signing of an agent. Players would still be considered "amateurs" because they haven't been paid, even if they've been drafted by an NBA team.
- In April, you'd have an surge of young players (college, international, 18 and 19 year olds on prospect contracts) start playing in the NBA. They bad teams would likely play these kids, which would create intrigue for their fans. The good teams likely wouldn't, but would be pursuing playoff positioning.
- You could have star 18-year-olds who elected to take a "prospect" contract and play in the G-League to be able to play and showcase their talent at the NBA level for 18-games a season. These players may be good enough to even start for the small portion they're allowed to play in the NBA.
- You would have 19-year olds who could be fresh out of college or off of "prospect" contracts who would be thrown into the lineup, with the possibility of playing in the playoffs. You could potentially have a 2nd-year college player playing in the Final Four and the NBA playoffs in the same year.

How this would benefit everyone:
NCAA:
This would likely improve college basketball by keeping talent there for two years instead of one. They'd miss out on some players, however they'd keep many. Star players staying for two years is huge for college basketball, as most freshmen don't play long enough to become widely recognized at the college level. We'd have more Miles Bridges, and that'd be a good thing. It would also create intrigue into college basketball from fans who only pay attention to the NBA, as NBA teams would have the rights to some players playing in college. The ability for players to play in SL and pre-season and work out with NBA teams in the off-season would make players better, and improve college basketball as a whole. The NCAA would have to revise it's philosophy and some rules, but these benefits would make it worth it IMO.
G-League:
This would improve the G-League and make it more interesting with players straight out of HS playing there, and some very talented players who'd otherwise play in the NBA playing at the G-League level. It'd create a true minor league system.
NBA:
This would allow teams to develop players from a younger age, and the contract system would allow them more time with a player (contract system below).
International Players:
This would be good for international players, who would have to be stashed or go to the D-League for two years anyway if drafted at the age of 18.
All Players:
This would be good for all players, as they could earn money right out of high school while working with an NBA team by focusing on their development on the D-League level. They could also elect to have that money paid immediately after they complete one-two years of college.

Contract System: (Based off 1st overall pick)
*Italics = Paid at the time if professional (G-League/International) or paid immediately after completion of two-years of college
*If player played in college for two years then got drafted, they'd start their NBA contract at the 20-year-old mark.
*Y1-Y4 Represents Full-Time NBA player on Full-Time Rookie Scale Contract
Age-Money
18 - $4,000,000 (Prospect)
19 - $4,000,000 (Prospect)
Y1 - $7,000,000 (Potential $4M-$8M Signing Bonus if player played in college)
Y2 - $8,500,000
Y3 - $10,000,000
Y4 - $12,000,000
RFA
*If a player got drafted at age 20 or older (two years removed from high school), their contract would start at "Y1"

This would make summer league and pre-season extremely interesting with good college players and players straight out of high school mixed in.
It would also make April (when a lot of bad teams are tanking and don't have anything interesting to sell to fans) very interesting for those bad teams, as the additions of new "fully pro" players as well as 10-game stints of 1st-year college players who are returning to college for a 2nd year would be invigorating and fun, and would help sell more tickets.

Hey nice proposal!
I like the concept of offering more options for anyone to get paid while honing their craft!
A free market approach all the way.

 

[dviss1]

If thats the you fell its ok with me.
When I pop into Starbucks and they tell me that their coffee's are market priced because of all the competition or price out vehicles new or used, the market prey much sets price based on many factors.
If my wife wants to drag me to a casino and contribute a few bucks to the Res, she can do it.
When I shop now days for just about anything I along with millions of others use the net to research and market price.
I guess since the Gov does collect taxes and requires licesnse on many things it could be considered a mixed enterprise very free enterprise economy and market.

I prefer my football with facemasking, holding, and pass interference penalties. Without those innocent people get hurt.

Free market only means free to screw THE SHIT outta the next guy to make a profit. But I guess capitalism truly is a love story...

 

[Hoopguru]

I prefer my football with facemasking, holding, and pass interference penalties. Without those innocent people get hurt.

Free market only means free to screw THE SHIT outta the next guy to make a profit. But I guess capitalism truly is a love story...

I see your point, but thats why its important to have limited government, or limited restraints on markets. With two many regulations and restraints on commerce only stifles the growth and increase the cost of things of which the consumer takes the brunt. For me it's a balance. Need limited Gov to govern commerce with sound laws like anti trust, and a trade commission to keep people from getting screwed. Like of like you do as a ref, you ref the game but don't take over a game unless it gets out of control. But ref's are letting the game play out so that someone wins in an official unbiased fair way.

 

[Lanny]

I'll dissent... Bad move, IMO. Kids going to college exclusively for sports are more likely to take the "quick buck" gamble, as compared to the mindset of the people setting the rules. This change will push more toward going pro straight from HS than just removing the age minimum, because borderline ones would rather risk not panning out than having to wait two years to earn a paycheck.

Not that many could go pro. Remember, you have to be drafted in the first round.

 

[Lanny]

I like the idea of high-schoolers being able to go straight to the NBA, because it'd definitely help Gonzaga. They wouldn't lose prospects, but the North Carolinas, Dukes, and Kentuckys of the world would.

Who cares about Gonzaga?

 

[BonesJones]

Who cares about Gonzaga?

Many people.

 

[handiman]

Not that many could go pro. Remember, you have to be drafted in the first round.

Last I checked, being drafted in the second round counts as going pro, as does signing a contract after going undrafted.

 

[Driew]

as does signing a contract after going undrafted.

Yeah I don't know if I'd consider Wesley Matthews pro...lol

 

[handiman]

Yeah I don't know if I'd consider Wesley Matthews pro...lol

Funny, that's exactly who I was thinking of when I typed that.

 

[dviss1]

Great. Like Baseball, if a kid gets a better offer overseas, that is his option. There is no reason that it has to one or the other.

Fallacy in baseball. You're not getting millions overseas to play baseball.

 

[dviss1]

I don't buy this sentiment....why is baseball overwhelmingly Hispanic then? They want to get paid too and they do get paid in the minors...just don't become overnight millionaires which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most ball players bounce back and forth between the minors and majors...if you're good enough to stick and stay healthy you get paid...and everyone wants to get paid, not just black athletes....anyone can choose another path, play overseas, etc....but in baseball you definitely earn your paycheck...in basketball prospects often get paid that don't work out....I like the baseball system....I love that you can send a slumping player to the minors and bring a better player into the rotation seamlessly....and that the slumping player can turn it around in the minors and get his job back with the majors ...it's all earned....no production....no big paycheck

Most of the Latino players aren't from America. Case rested.

 

[dviss1]

I see your point, but thats why its important to have limited government, or limited restraints on markets. With two many regulations and restraints on commerce only stifles the growth and increase the cost of things of which the consumer takes the brunt. For me it's a balance. Need limited Gov to govern commerce with sound laws like anti trust, and a trade commission to keep people from getting screwed. Like of like you do as a ref, you ref the game but don't take over a game unless it gets out of control. But ref's are letting the game play out so that someone wins in an official unbiased fair way.

More free market bullshit. This is starting to go OT.

Based upon this post, you have no clue of the refs job is.

I'm literally judge, jury, and executioner. I enforce basketball laws.

And these laws (regulations) keep the sport pure.

When government doesn't regulate, you have wall street running wild and corporations running roughshod over citizens.

 

[riverman]

Most of the Latino players aren't from America. Case rested.

so what? many black players are not either.....there's no case here.....as a matter of fact many black baseball players speak Spanish as a first language...there's no case to be made....I explained why baseball has the better system. ..the greatest basketball player of all time played minor league baseball to give it a shot. And he was black and American. Let's talk about the sport as it is...a sport. I played semi pro baseball for 3 years overseas....only pale guy on the team and only English speaker. Ethnic identity had nothing to do with it. I didn't play for wealth, I played because I loved the game.

 

[riverman]

You're not getting millions

So what? Why should any athlete get millions anyway? What's the big deal...? The president only gets 400k a year ...school teachers get less than minor league ball players in most cases..fact is athletes are WAY overpaid for the job they do

 

[Hoopguru]

More free market bullshit. This is starting to go OT.

Based upon this post, you have no clue of the refs job is.

I'm literally judge, jury, and executioner. I enforce basketball laws.

And these laws (regulations) keep the sport pure.

When government doesn't regulate, you have wall street running wild and corporations running roughshod over citizens.

Whats your issue with free enterprise man? Why cant you have a balance?
Gee's...Power trips art just exclusive to Corp, Small Business, enterprising people, kids looking to achieve and prosper.
I agree we need rules and reg's but every player, coach, and many fans will tell you its NOT, a refs job to take over a game with a judge, jury executioner attitude or conduct.
Call em as they see em, but if they fuck up a game they too are open to critique and/or rules.
Im all for following the law by the book man, but not just cherry pick ones to follow.

 

[dviss1]

Whats your issue with free enterprise man? Why cant you have a balance?
Gee's...Power trips art just exclusive to Corp, Small Business, enterprising people, kids looking to achieve and prosper.
I agree we need rules and reg's but every player, coach, and many fans will tell you its NOT, a refs job to take over a game with a judge, jury executioner attitude or conduct.
Call em as they see em, but if they fuck up a game they too are open to critique and/or rules.
Im all for following the law by the book man, but not just cherry pick ones to follow.

There's no such thing as free enterprise. It literally doesn't exist. Our nation is ran by corporations and setup for the corporations to screw people over. Plain and simple.

Capitalism is bad and has nothing to do with democracy.

 

[dviss1]

NOT, a refs job to take over a game with a judge, jury executioner attitude or conduct.

If you think that's what I meant, your reading comprehension needs improvement.

 

[Reep]

There's no such thing as free enterprise. It literally doesn't exist. Our nation is ran by corporations and setup for the corporations to screw people over. Plain and simple.

Capitalism is bad and has nothing to do with democracy.

How about capitalism can be abused (like socialism and all other forms of government)? And you know the U.S. isn't a democracy, right? (hint: constitutional republic). More people need to read up on why we weren't set up as a democracy, as I'm sure they don't teach that in public schools.

 

[Hoopguru]

There's no such thing as free enterprise. It literally doesn't exist. Our nation is ran by corporations and setup for the corporations to screw people over. Plain and simple.

Capitalism is bad and has nothing to do with democracy.

I'd rather have more freedoms, less gov control, and allow the people the opportunity to prosper and be creative. It can be done with limited gov and less regulations.
Sounds like you think all Corp are crooks? one are and they get exposed and people can take the business elsewhere. Versus your approach of a socialistic run government that wants to control the people in all that they do, all that does is keep them suppressed. Wouldn't a balance much better?
So, what type of system do you endorse for this country? Just curious.

 

[e_blazer]

I'd rather have more freedoms, less gov control, and allow the people the opportunity to prosper and be creative. It can be done with limited gov and less regulations.
Sounds like you think all Corp are crooks? one are and they get exposed and people can take the business elsewhere. Versus your approach of a socialistic run government that wants to control the people in all that they do, all that does is keep them suppressed. Wouldn't a balance much better?
So, what type of system do you endorse for this country? Just curious.

Interesting discussion...FOR THE OT FORUM...

 

[dviss1]

Interesting discussion...FOR THE OT FORUM...

I personally don't wanna have the discussion at all.

Personally, I'm really tired of free market conservatives acting like there's this invisible hand that steers the market. It's bullshit.

Free market means free to run over the common man. Corporations are not people.