One thing I have never understood about Paul's money

[Cippy91]

This has been debated to death. Not gonna argue with you on it. I believe your opinion of history is inaccurate.

But you can keep saying the same thing over and over and over beating a dead horse like a few others on here....But its a waste of your time and energy at this point. You arent convincing anyone of your opinion that hasnt already been convinced.

Okay so him dealing out toxic contracts to turner and Meyers is inaccurate? You’re the one believing the snake oil salesmen. Ever since lamarcus left, he has talked about assets. Explain to me what assets we have to make this team better in future trades. Gonna let Napier walk? Gotta re sign Davis and nurk. Okay then what? Dame asked for help for a reason, it’s not hard to see this roster is mediocre and needs upgrades

 

[Orion Bailey]

Okay so him dealing out toxic contracts to turner and Meyers is inaccurate? You’re the one believing the snake oil salesmen. Ever since lamarcus left, he has talked about assets. Explain to me what assets we have to make this team better in future trades. Gonna let Napier walk? Gotta re sign Davis and nurk. Okay then what? Dame asked for help for a reason, it’s not hard to see this roster is mediocre and needs upgrades

Correct At the time they were within the norm. And again, he was banking on continued development. I already addressed this.

As far as assets, Assets take time to become assets. Nm...

I'm not gonna convince you to be realistic about the options he had at the time.

Your another armchair quarterback.
No realistic answers for what he should have done, but still say he should have done something else.

Sorry this topic with you is not worth my time.

I don't beleive NO, He may not be the right guy. Im just being realistic with the limited options he had when LMA left.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not sure why Neil is the only guy to get blame around here. I have seen coaches do more with less.

The Tennessee Titans recently fired their coach, despite making the playoffs for the first time in a long time. He was well liked, and the team had good success with him as the coach, but he wasn't running an offense that played to the strengths of his QB. He refused to replace his offensive coordinator, so the team is starting over with an entirely new coaching staff.

I don't think there's anyone on here who thinks Terry is the best coach in the league. So my point is simply, why can't Paul use his huge pocketbook to throw an offer that can't be refused at one of the top coaches?

 

[Orion Bailey]

[QUOTE="Natebishop3, post: 4367378, member: 20927"]I'm not sure why Neil is the only guy to get blame around here. I have seen coaches do more with less.

The Tennessee Titans recently fired their coach, despite making the playoffs for the first time in a long time. He was well liked, and the team had good success with him as the coach, but he wasn't running an offense that played to the strengths of his QB. He refused to replace his offensive coordinator, so the team is starting over with an entirely new coaching staff.

I don't think there's anyone on here who thinks Terry is the best coach in the league. So my point is simply, why can't Paul use his huge pocketbook to throw an offer that can't be refused at one of the top coaches?[/QUOTE]

Easy answer.

Armchair quarterbacks not being realistic with the options Neil has had.

I find it funny most of the people who bitch about not being able to get stars here are also the ones that bitch that NO should have gotten some stars here...

LMAO!!!!

 

[blue9]

We don't have the best roster, no. But, neither is Terry utilizing what he has. He is stuffing all of the players into his 3 point heavy style of play. A good coach builds the system around the players. There is no inside presence. He is ignoring his big men not running offense through the paint. Nurk could become a beomoth inside. Collins and Swanigan could do damage in there too. But, its mostly threes and most of portlands points in the paint come from the guards. Stotts doesn't seem to have a great understanding of fundamental defense. Though the Blazers have gotten better in that area. He is an offense guy through amd through.

Also a good coach can anaylze an opponents tendencies and patterns and figure out how to exploit them to win games. Stotts struggles here, especially in adapting to other teams playing styles and making in game changes. He often waits to long to take timeouts and bring starters back in the game.

A good coach understands and know how to motivate players, knows how to drive their potential. A good coach understands his players strengths and weaknesses and learns how to balamce them to get the best production for the individual plauer and team.

Agree with this, except with the notion that he's "an offense guy through and through". His offense STINKS! And you even alluded to this when you talk about how he has his bigs playing out at the 3-point line. Beyond not knowing how to use bigs properly, he doesn't know how to use more than 2 players in an offensive set. Our offense is either a 1-man game or a 2-man game with a bail-out option at the 3-point line.

 

[blue9]

So my point is simply, why can't Paul use his huge pocketbook to throw an offer that can't be refused at one of the top coaches?

Because there are really only two "top coaches", and neither of them would leave their current situation.
But yes, we should be trying to get a 2nd tier coach. Or maybe try out some new coaches rather than recycling the same garbage.

 

[hoopsjock]

What part of billionaire don’t you understand?

He can offer WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SIGN THE TOP 15 PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE and pay the so-called luxury tax without even noticing the cost.

For whatever reason, winning an NBA Championship has never been that important to him.

That's not how it works or even remotely possible.

 

[santeesioux]

Neil and Terry have both been here 6 years and they've only legitimately made it out of the first round once, I'm not sure why people are so against them going in a different direction. I mean yeah, this era is probably better than when they had Juan Dixon and Ha Seung Jin, but I'd like for them to aim hire than what they seem to be. It just feels like Mark Helfrich at this point.

 

[Cippy91]

Correct At the time they were within the norm. And again, he was banking on continued development. I already addressed this.

As far as assets, Assets take time to become assets. Nm...

I'm not gonna convince you to be realistic about the options he had at the time.

Your another armchair quarterback.
No realistic answers for what he should have done, but still say he should have done something else.

Sorry this topic with you is not worth my time.

I don't beleive NO, He may not be the right guy. Im just being realistic with the limited options he had when LMA left.

Why are you getting argumentative about it? I mean this is a forum where people have different opinions and question others, etc, right? NOBODY wanted Meyers signed. Everybody was done with him. At the time I agreed with the Harkless signing and I think most people wanted to feel optimistic about the Turner signing but everybody knew that was a lot of fucking money for that guy. With Moes recent play, he is kind of an asset but he is so inconsistent, who knows what we could flip him for. Zach Collins is the only promising asset we have. It will take another couple years for him to develop into something special I believe but that's a guy you want to keep if he ends up being what they think he will be. I completely believe the Evan Turner signing was a panic sign. I mean thank god that Parsons didn't sign with us though. That would of been worse. Whiteside would of been the win but didn't happen. I forget what other free agents were available at that time but there were definitely ways of dividing that money we gave to Turner to sign multiple players who could actually be worth something right now. I think Neil did a good job when LMA left. The Nurkic trade was good. That summer of signings changed everything though

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I want Brad Stevens. I don't care what it costs. Find out what his number is and give it to him. That guy has made so many mediocre players look serviceable, and I want that in Portland.

Stevens has an HOF GM in Ainge that gets players that fit his system. No one thought he would leave Butler and I do not see him leaving Boston for even 20M a year. As someone else said, it is his dream job.

 

[Minstrel]

Guys like Jerry West usually go for big market opportunities...you hire guys who want the challenge of a small market team.

West was previously the GM of the Memphis Grizzlies. That's very small market.

 

[riverman]

West was previously the GM of the Memphis Grizzlies. That's very small market.

He won't be going back there now...

 

[Natebishop3]

I look at coaches that have success, not just in the NBA, but in other pro leagues as well. They adapt, they know their opponents inside and out. They're able to make adjustments. They have an exceptional coaching staff surrounding them. They build a culture of winning.

Pop
PhilJax
Bill Belichik

To be fair, those guys all had a generational talent on their teams (Brady/Duncan/Jordan). So maybe we should be looking for a guy like Larry Brown (Pacers/Pistons) or Doug Pederson.

 

[Chris Craig]

Agree with this, except with the notion that he's "an offense guy through and through". His offense STINKS! And you even alluded to this when you talk about how he has his bigs playing out at the 3-point line. Beyond not knowing how to use bigs properly, he doesn't know how to use more than 2 players in an offensive set. Our offense is either a 1-man game or a 2-man game with a bail-out option at the 3-point line.

What I meant by "he's an offense guy through and through," is that's the only element he seems to consider in his system. I didn't say he was good there either.

 

[blue9]

What I meant by "he's an offense guy through and through," is that's the only element he seems to consider in his system. I didn't say he was good there either.

Ha! Fair enough!

 

[Chris Craig]

Neil and Terry have both been here 6 years and they've only legitimately made it out of the first round once, I'm not sure why people are so against them going in a different direction. I mean yeah, this era is probably better than when they had Juan Dixon and Ha Seung Jin, but I'd like for them to aim hire than what they seem to be. It just feels like Mark Helfrich at this point.

Yeah its time

 

[Orion Bailey]

Why are you getting argumentative about it?
I mean this is a forum where people have different opinions and question others, etc, right? NOBODY wanted Meyers signed. Everybody was done with him. At the time I agreed with the Harkless signing and I think most people wanted to feel optimistic about the Turner signing but everybody knew that was a lot of fucking money for that guy. With Moes recent play, he is kind of an asset but he is so inconsistent, who knows what we could flip him for. Zach Collins is the only promising asset we have. It will take another couple years for him to develop into something special I believe but that's a guy you want to keep if he ends up being what they think he will be. I completely believe the Evan Turner signing was a panic sign. I mean thank god that Parsons didn't sign with us though. That would of been worse. Whiteside would of been the win but didn't happen. I forget what other free agents were available at that time but there were definitely ways of dividing that money we gave to Turner to sign multiple players who could actually be worth something right now. I think Neil did a good job when LMA left. The Nurkic trade was good. That summer of signings changed everything though

1st bolded part of your statement: This is not true. IF Nurk goes down, who do we have to back him up? Back when he was signed it was Plumlee and we were in the same boat. A 7' who can shoot threes is valuable in this league, so there were many who wanted him signed, maybe just not for as much as he got.

I do believe that Meyers is probably NO's biggest mistake. Meyers bet on himself and lost and NO paid him like he tied or won. Doesn't change the fact that we were still in need of a backup big and one who shoots threes, would fit well into this team.

So your first bolded statement is not true. I bought is damned Jersey. I wanted him signed.

........................................

2nd bolded statement: I disagree with this. Turner, again shouldn't have got quite the money he should have, but we needed a third solid ball handler and with Boston, he showed he would be more than serviceable with this team. I still think he could, if it were the right price. So again, Olshey overpaid, but lets say he signed him for a bit more friendly 12 mill per. That would have left 6 mill. Until you tell me who we could have got that would have been worth a squat in that year for 6 mill, there is no substance to your argument.

The summer of signings did change everything and not just for us, yet some people think we were the only team to over payplayers....

Ill help you out and toss some names and contracts out there that were signed by other teams in 2016....

5 years @ 120mill for Batum.....currently putting up 12/4/5 on 32 min per

4 years 38 mill for Delladova..... 5/2/4 in 18 min per

4 years 48 mill for Solomon Hill....not playing this year... out of the league? last year had 7/4/2 in 30 minutes

1 year 15 mill for Jeff Green.....11/3/3 in 22

3 years 23 mill for Darell Arthur...3/1/1 in 20

3 years 30 mill for JAred Dudley....3/2/2 in 14

4 years 72 mill for Joakim Noah.....2/2/1 in 6

4 years 70 mill for Bazemore.....13/4/4 in 28

4 years 80 mill for Ryan Anderson....10/5/1 in 28

4 years 54 mill for Marvin Williams.....10/5/1 in 26

2 years 16 mill for Anthony Tolliver.....8/3/1 in 21

3 years 35 mill for Austin Rivers.....16/2/4 in 33

3 years 24 mill for Garrett Temple.....8/3/2 in 25


Follow so far? Now lets look at Turner since he is the foundation of the ridicule with his contract.

8/3/2 in 26. 4 years 70 mill

These are all stats for this year.

Now lets look at who else was signed near his salary...

Batum almost double the salary, at only 50% the production increase.

Ryan anderson is a little richer but his stats are virtually the same if you look at a per 36.

Joakim Noah is the true albatros in the group. Bazemore, for that type of money, seems to be having the best production of the group, but isn't blowing anyone away.


You mentioned splitting the money up amongst several players s0 i listed some smaller contracts as well. Take your pick that would add up to Turners Salary and tell me it makes us better.
If not, settle down with the NO hate please...

NO thought Turner would be a little better than he has been. He looked good in Boston. He hasn't looked good here. fair enough. He will still be an expiring soon and valuable.

People saying NO did nothing is ludicrous and just plain wrong. He took swings and hit some balls and missed some balls, as ALL PLAYERS DO.
He took a path and tried to make it work. Player improvement impeded some of that and the cap coming back down impeded some of that.

Patience is suuuch an underrated virtue.

 

[KingSpeed]

Just for shits and giggles, what did we lose to tonight? I'm really intrigued.

Solid post though.

The hottest inarguably best team in the NBA right now.

 

[KingSpeed]

Neil and Terry have both been here 6 years and they've only legitimately made it out of the first round once, I'm not sure why people are so against them going in a different direction. I mean yeah, this era is probably better than when they had Juan Dixon and Ha Seung Jin, but I'd like for them to aim hire than what they seem to be. It just feels like Mark Helfrich at this point.

Bullshit. Because of injuries? Then the Warriors haven't won a legitimate championship once, except maybe back in the 70s. Injuries are a part of the game and we beat the Clippers fair and square.

 

[tester551]

What part of billionaire don’t you understand?

He can offer WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SIGN THE TOP 15 PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE and pay the so-called luxury tax without even noticing the cost.

For whatever reason, winning an NBA Championship has never been that important to him.

I'm always amazed at the stupidity of those who have no money

 

[tester551]

I don't beleive NO, He may not be the right guy. Im just being realistic with the limited options he had when LMA left.

He may not have had any great options... but it's much better to not do anything & maintain flexibility than make a dumb decision & lock yourself in.

Guess what NO decided to do

 

[BonesJones]

Easy answer.

Armchair quarterbacks not being realistic with the options Neil has had.

I find it funny most of the people who bitch about not being able to get stars here are also the ones that bitch that NO should have gotten some stars here...

LMAO!!!!

Oh god damn... I never thought you would turn into a Neil defender. I'm disappointed!

 

[blazerkor]

Just for shits and giggles, what did we lose to tonight? I'm really intrigued.

Solid post though.

Just for shits and giggles, what did we lose to tonight? I'm really intrigued.

Solid post though.

The hottest team in the NBA? That's what you were looking for right because the Jazz have been on a monumental tear.

 

[LayneStaley]

Hmm, your right he wasn’t gonna get any stars here at the deadline but there were players to be had that coulda pushed us to the 4/5 seed and gave us a more than decent chance at the second round and maybe more. I think not trading for Mirotic was a mistake, we give up what? The 18th pick? Maybe even a pick in the 20s for a 25 year old 20/10 guy who can stroke the 3? There was your 3rd scorer Neil, I don’t think he even thought about trading for him, which is hilarious considering we made a trade with the Bulls. Don’t say we didn’t trade him because we have Collins, there is ZERO guarantee Collins turns into anything, he’s straight potential and if Neil isn’t making the team better with proven players because he THINKS his draft picks will all fulfill their potential then he needs to go back to the car dealership.

 

[jlprk]

That's one thing I've never understood about Paul either. It wouldn't take a ton of money to have hired somebody like Jerry West as an advisor. Hes the brightest mind in the business. But it's a mute point now.

Guys like Jerry West usually go for big market opportunities...you hire guys who want the challenge of a small market team.

Right before Allen hired Olshey, Phil Jackson, living in Idaho, campaigned publicly to become Blazer advisor. Allen ignored him. I liked that, because I thought that West, not Jackson, was behind Laker success (acquiring talent).

I look at coaches that have success, not just in the NBA, but in other pro leagues as well. They adapt, they know their opponents inside and out. They're able to make adjustments. They have an exceptional coaching staff surrounding them. They build a culture of winning.

Pop
PhilJax
Bill Belichik

To be fair, those guys all had a generational talent on their teams (Brady/Duncan/Jordan). So maybe we should be looking for a guy like Larry Brown (Pacers/Pistons) or Doug Pederson.

Brown was basically kicked out of the NBA for constantly complaining to the media. He tried to stay in. He and Jackson would come here, but would cost much more than they're worth.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Hmm, your right he wasn’t gonna get any stars here at the deadline but there were players to be had that coulda pushed us to the 4/5 seed and gave us a more than decent chance at the second round and maybe more. I think not trading for Mirotic was a mistake, we give up what? The 18th pick? Maybe even a pick in the 20s for a 25 year old 20/10 guy who can stroke the 3? There was your 3rd scorer Neil, I don’t think he even thought about trading for him, which is hilarious considering we made a trade with the Bulls. Don’t say we didn’t trade him because we have Collins, there is ZERO guarantee Collins turns into anything, he’s straight potential and if Neil isn’t making the team better with proven players because he THINKS his draft picks will all fulfill their potential then he needs to go back to the car dealership.

Toss some names or there then. Who could he have signed thstvwould have been worthy of going into tax trouble and would get us past Houston or gsw?

Nobody? So just spend money to spend money?

It’s no wonder the rich are so few...

 

[Denny Crane]

He may not have had any great options... but it's much better to not do anything & maintain flexibility than make a dumb decision & lock yourself in.

Guess what NO decided to do

Once you hit the salary CAP, you can only go over using exceptions, or by making a trade where you take a limited amount more in than you send out.

NO has a ton of flexibility in the form of Trade Player Exceptions he could have used if there were a quality player to be had.

What you call flexibility is really handcuffs.

 

[ripcityboy]

Right before Allen hired Olshey, Phil Jackson, living in Idaho, campaigned publicly to become Blazer advisor. Allen ignored him. I liked that, because I thought that West, not Jackson, was behind Laker success (acquiring talent).


Brown was basically kicked out of the NBA for constantly complaining to the media. He tried to stay in. He and Jackson would come here, but would cost much more than they're worth.

There is a good book to be written about the different qualities required in a GM or advisor as opposed to coaching. And also how the desire for people to put ex-players and managers in the job can backfire ROYALLY. Phil Jackson and Isaiah Thomas obviously wanted to become GMs for the big payday but ended up failing so spectacularly that nobody would ever let them near a role like that again. Ironically enough, if you look at Jerry West and NFL GM Ozzie Newsome, they seem almost the opposite from those two guys. Both were widely successful players who quietly took jobs in the front office almost as accident, as just a way to stay with the franchises they loved. And it's funny that both men have an ability to scout in their respective professions at a level that is so high barely anybody questions them. Newsome will retire next year and take on a role with the Ravens in the same way that West has thrived on for years. But what are those magic qualities that an Ozzie Newsome and the toxic qualities that make an Isaiah Thomas, somebody who can burn your franchise to the ground? My guess is we will find out in somebody like Derek Jeter.... can he make the switch to management in his respective sport? Except for him, the goal is ownership not advisor or GM. Get your popcorn ready folks, will see if ego wins the day or if good judgement prevails.

 

[Cippy91]

Toss some names or there then. Who could he have signed thstvwould have been worthy of going into tax trouble and would get us past Houston or gsw?

Nobody? So just spend money to spend money?

It’s no wonder the rich are so few...

It’s not about going into the luxury. The point is to at least have assets. Turner and Meyers aren’t assets. They can’t be moved for jack shit. At least moe can get you a little something. Meyers showed a little bit of promise when cj and him finally got minutes when we were getting bounced by Memphis and LA was all but gone. Then he was ass again the following year. Neil still signed him. He wasn’t worth anything before the contract and is worth less after. Could of given turner a significant amount less. Why do you think Boston didn’t take him back? They weren’t matching that bullshit offer.

 

[jlprk]

There is a good book to be written about the different qualities required in a GM or advisor as opposed to coaching.

I copied excerpts from 2012 articles about Phil Jackson willing to be Blazer President/Asst. Coach.
============
Phil Jackson went through another hip surgery or knee surgery, a replacement, he had a number of them. He had to sit in a special chair the last few years.

he wanted a year off from coaching, maybe never coach. But it did interest him to be the president of the Blazers.

In the spring, Jackson’s agent spoke several times with Blazers president Larry Miller, who wanted Jackson to coach the Blazers.

Jackson wanted to replace Larry Miller as president of the Blazers. would have hired Brian Shaw as head coach and worked as an assistant on Shaw’s staff.

Jackson had discussions with Portland about the head coaching job "for the last few months" before Jackson turned the team down.
---------
GM job: David Morway, the general manager of the Indiana Pacers, is the favored candidate of Blazers president Larry Miller. Bert Kolde is pushing for Los Angeles Clippers general manager Neil Olshey.

Olshey is a client of agent Warren LeGarie. LeGarie represented former Blazers GMs John Nash and Kevin Pritchard as well as ex-assistant general manager Tom Penn. You'd think Allen wouldn't want to eat at that restaurant again.

former New Orleans general manager Jeff Bower. Philadelphia 76ers senior vice president Tony DiLeo.
------------
Jackson was supposed to meet with Paul Allen. Once Olshey came in, that never happened. he was frozen out. Olshey and his agent, Warren LeGarie, worked to "freeze out" Jackson. Olshey didn't want the power to shift, obviously, because that's what would happen.

Former Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan turned down the Blazers on Thursday. The Trail Blazers were in "back-and-forth discussions" with NBA coaching legend Phil Jackson.

Portland did offer Jackson the coaching job. He was willing to serve as an assistant under Shaw, his former assistant in L.A.

Jackson withdrawing from the Orlando Magic executive search, citing "another opportunity."

Miller resigned on July 6, and Allen said he would open a national search.
-----------
so they offer him the coaching job. That's not really what he wanted. he would have come as an assistant for Brian Shaw at home games.

"Phil would be interested in talking about a possible role in the organization, a tremendous advisor to the owner.''
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An uninformative thread.
http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/bl...g-job-to-jerry-sloan-and-phil-jackson.217582/