Online Poker in the USA: The Sh*% hit the fan

[PHXBlazer1]

I play Texas Hold-em/Omaha/etc. online at least 20 hours a week for supplemental income, and because I love the game. My buddy wanted to get started playin so I told him I'd transfer him $100 or so. Went to try and do it yesterday and found out the FBI seized the domain names (fulltiltpoker.com/pokerstars.com) and basically stopped all US players from playing. Crazy. And the day after the tax deadline to boot? Fishy.

Now all my money on there is frozen. I'm not asking for sympathy, as I was fully aware that this day could come eventually, since it is "technically" illegal. But wow, I honestly never thought they would take action. I guess I'll be posting on S2 more often. Any of you guys ever play online poker and are affected by this?

 

[Shapecity]

It's a bullshit law that was added to a port security bill and passed in the late hours.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

I used to play a lot: In fact, it was my main source of income a few years back when I was out of work. I quit playing when I moved from Portland to Washington (due to the fact it's been outlawed here for over 5 years). I don't understand why Poker has been deemed detrimental, but in the matter of 5 minutes I can place a bet on any game being played or a million different prop bets.

 

[jlprk]

I was fully aware that this day could come eventually, since it is "technically" illegal.

It's a bullshit law that was added to a port security bill and passed in the late hours.

Can you educate me on why and how this is illegal? Does that go for any online game with money as a prize? For example, I once saw a Spider Solitaire site with a money prize.

Let me guess. Gambling is illegal in some states or counties, so it can't be online anywhere in the U.S.

How about the part of the Full Tilt Poker site that isn't played for money?

 

[Shapecity]

Can you educate me on why and how this is illegal? Does that go for any online game with money as a prize? For example, I once saw a Spider Solitaire site with a money prize.

Let me guess. Gambling is illegal in some states or counties, so it can't be online anywhere in the U.S.

How about the part of the Full Tilt Poker site that isn't played for money?

Here's an overview of the law. It's called the Wire Act.

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/wire-act.htm

They also made it illegal for US citizens to transfer funds if you are a resident of the United States, you are prohibited from transferring funds or money to online casinos.

The soitaire site would be considered illegal. Even online office pools, fantasy sports for money are considered illegal.

 

[jlprk]

Good links on the side, like "State Law Summary." Why did they wait a couple of years to enforce a 1961 law?

That Spider Solitaire site I saw did not have users sending in money. I guess the site paid small awards out of its ad income. I guess that doesn't meet the definition of gambling.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Paxil]

How are people not aware of the gambling laws? The fact that you have to go to casinos or race tracks or Vegas should be a clue. BTW I think they were involved in more than just gambling... they were laundering the money in the US I believe.

 

[Denny Crane]

They were supposedly enforcing the cash in/out provision of the law for a while now.

The government can't regulate this activity, so they outlaw it. I'm not at all a fan of the govt. trying to protect us from ourselves - Caveat Emptor is a plenty good enough rule.

Gambling Laws are sort of interesting, at least to me. It is gambling if the game is one of chance, not of skill. Shapecity and I could bet against each other over who would win a footrace between the two of us. It would be gambling for someone else to bet on either one of us, since they don't have direct control of the outcome. Some games of poker are considered games of skill by the law and have been legal in California for at least decades. It is not gambling if you don't have to pay to win. This is why every contest you see on TV has some way for absolutely anyone to enter, even by sending in a 3x5 index card.

Some zealot DA went after UpperDeck trading card company for putting a rare card in one out of every (guessing the number) 10,000 packages of cards. The govt. claimed it was gambling because people had to pay in and had a 1:10000 chance to win a valuable prize.

Nuts.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

crazy that they can keep all of your money, i would figure these sites would use a third party anyways.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

It's going to take 3-4 months to figure out but all money owed will be paid.

 

[Rhal]

I didn't get a lot of income off of online poker but I played a bit and won some money. Never had a lot in the site because I figured something like this would happen just sucks that it has. Govt can't tax this so it must illegal right?

 

[THE HCP]

Wow! I've never even bought a scratch ticket!

 

[jlprk]

Why is gambling illegal? I always read that it's to save gambling addicts from blowing their paychecks and living homeless while they continue earning their paychecks from their jobs...If there were many people like this, I think I'd see mentions in crime articles, etc...Once you lose your house and electricity for your alarm clock and live under a bridge, you probably can't meet a regular schedule and hold your job, so the gambling problem solves itself. You have no paycheck to lose. The point is, I think the number of people ruined by gambling is infinitesimal.

Gambling Laws are sort of interesting, at least to me. It is gambling if the game is one of chance, not of skill. Shapecity and I could bet against each other over who would win a footrace between the two of us. It would be gambling for someone else to bet on either one of us, since they don't have direct control of the outcome.

Therefore the stock market is illegal, because gamblers can't control the outcome. But insider trading is legal, because they can.

 

[Paxil]

Why is gambling illegal?

I was going a smart ass comment like 'because we have laws against it' but I know that isn't useful. My answer is I am not sure... but yes I think it has a lot to do with taxes. I think probably way back there were some religious reasons for this, but in general I think it is because the company making money isn't paying taxes... and outside a casino etc... people are not paying takes on their winnings.

I even people think it should be legal we can vote for change... maybe there can be a way that it can be done that makes everyone happy.

 

[maxiep]

I remember when Ted Kulongoski turned down the offer from the Tribes of the Grande Ronde to fund a Major League baseball stadium (which would have insured Portland getting the Expos and much-needed temporary construction jobs) in exchange for giving them a casino close to Portland on the grounds that it would encourage and celebrate gambling. Within a few days, he expanded the number of machines and range of locations for Oregon Lottery video poker. Thanks, Ted.

Bottom line, the government doesn't care about gambling. They just want to make sure they can tax your winnings.

 

[Paxil]

tIt is just too easy to transfer money all over the place and then claim it was from gampling or whatever. It doesn't take a creative mind to think of all of the ways you could get around current laws.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

There are plenty of local places you can go and play poker. Understand it is not as convenient as on line, but if you need a poker fix, try La Center.

 

[Draco]

Theres tons of places to play poker right in the city of Portland. Theres that one tournament place on Barber, Ace of Spades or whatever its called?

 

[julius]

I'm so glad the US Government did this instead of other pointless things. Like, anything else.

 

[tlongII]

It's a stupid law. At least in these online games I believe you have to have the money to back up your bets.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

There are plenty of local places you can go and play poker. Understand it is not as convenient as on line, but if you need a poker fix, try La Center.

Theres tons of places to play poker right in the city of Portland. Theres that one tournament place on Barber, Ace of Spades or whatever its called?

The problem with live play isn't the inconvenience aspect, it's the profitability. You see A LOT more hands online than you do in a live game. I used to Four-table Limit Hold 'Em games online which would allow me to play about 240 hands per hour (60 hands per table x 4 tables). Playing live you see about 30-40 hands in an hour if you aren't playing with douchebags that take forever with every decision. It adds up quickly, 3 hours of play would be 720 online hands vs. 90-120 live.

 

[BlayZa]

fulltiltpoker is back? PS has the FBi info on it

 

[barfo]

The government can't regulate this activity, so they outlaw it. I'm not at all a fan of the govt. trying to protect us from ourselves - Caveat Emptor is a plenty good enough rule.

Sure. Any consumer should be able to detect salmonella in his sandwich or lead paint on his kid's toys. Screw that government regulation.

Shapecity and I could bet against each other over who would win a footrace between the two of us. It would be gambling for someone else to bet on either one of us, since they don't have direct control of the outcome.

Some of us have guns.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Screw government regulation.

barfo

FTFY, and we agree on something!

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure. Any consumer should be able to detect salmonella in his sandwich or lead paint on his kid's toys. Screw that government regulation.



Some of us have guns.

barfo

Except they aren't doing a very good job at all of regulating the food industry, or the drug industry, or banking industry, or.....

Money talks, bullshit walks with the Federal Gov.

 

[Paxil]

Theres tons of places to play poker right in the city of Portland. Theres that one tournament place on Barber, Ace of Spades or whatever its called?

Yeah but you are not playing with money correct? Isn't it a tournament where you pay n amount of money to play, everyone gets the same amount of chips... and they there is some kind of prize the last guy in wins or something like that? I don't know... but I was under the impression that it is... not the same as real poker.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

theres a casino out here that just gets away with it because they donate some of the money to charity i think, and the odds are rigged too, or the payouts i should say, like roulette pays out at 27.5-1 or someshit

 

[Natebishop3]

I love poker, but I'm more a fan of the poker night with the buddies. I never liked online because you can't see the other people. Harder to tell if they're bluffing.

 

[RR7]

Money talks, bullshit walks with the Federal Gov.

Except in government, it's more like money pays for the bullshit to keep on talking.