optimism

[barfo]

I hope he lives long enough to see what happens. I just hope he feels sorry for people that work until they are 90 years old

I'm planning on working until I am 90, unless I drop dead first.

barfo

 

[barfo]

The fact that this thread exists shows the idiocy of the people who rely on public dollars for their retirement.

They just don't get it, and instead of being curious, they instead start stupid threads on the internet.

Eh, whatever. Since you admitted tonight that you are just a troll, it doesn't make much difference, but for the record, I don't and will not ever get a dime from public dollars for retirement.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

its the same on every forum. I've been on them all. this one is actually pretty "close knit".

I hope you use protection. Can't have you spreading virtual std's here.

 

[MARIS61]

How could I be anything but a total optimist, living the dream here in Beautiful Central Oregon?

 

[mook]

From a friend of mine on facebook:

this is not sustainable. this can not end well. we'll be lucky to get out of this with just millions dead. dark ages coming back in a big way. load up on guns and bring your friends. when the house of cards comes a tumbling down... don't be under it.

Man, I know it's a little tough right now, but jesus. It's not like we're facing utter annihilation like in the Cold War, or tens of thousands of us are being shipped off to die in Vietnam, or half the country is fighting the other half of the country in the Civil War, or we're facing a cold-blooded asshat who basically wanted to wipe off the face of the earth all minorities like Hitler.

At worse we'll face another Great Depression, and there weren't millions dead on the streets over that--the whole thing was pretty much over in a little over a decade. And it built the character of what we all recognize as the Greatest Generation, so it wasn't all bad. And that's assuming it gets that bad, which I (and most economists) really doubt.

It's a shit ton of debt. It sucks. Both parties are finally putting proposals on the table to deal with it, and eventually we will because, as Churchill once said, Americans always do the right thing after we exhaust all other options.

But it's not terminal cancer. There are several generations of Americans who would've loved to have had a big damned debt being the worst problem on the horizon. People need to get a grip. It's not the end of days. That's what the media is feeding you because that's what sells.

 

[maxiep]

My POV changed the day I found out my wife was pregnant. It stopped being about the present and started to be about the future for us. I want to leave my son and any future children we have the best possible world, where they'll have the same opportunities I did. I come from poor white trash and--through hard work and some luck--am now in a little bit better garbage can. The fear I have about our debt is not that people will die, but that future generations will become enslaved to it because of our poor decisions.

There isn't a sacrifice I wouldn't make today to ensure a better world and a better life for my progeny in the future. Our government policies are doing the opposite.

 

[maxiep]

A large part of my job is surveying the economic landscape to ensure our funds are making optimal investment decisions. The long term economic data I see are profoundly negative across the board. I am an optimist by nature, but the past five years have been a real body blow to my confidence in the American people. We've stopped being a nation of makers and have become a nation of takers.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

34. i guess its pretty normal for LA. at least that's what i tell her.

hey ugly girls can be young too

 

[3RA1N1AC]

things are always average to a sociopath. and when things are always average, you can pretend that average is good. and then things are always good. or great even, depending on the most recent victim.

 

[maxiep]

This article is the kind which makes me pessimistic: http://www.cnbc.com/id/42586453/

How many times do we see the word "unexpectedly" when it comes to bad economic news? The reason it continues to happen is that the prescriptions aren't working. We need to try something different; something that worked before.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

for anyone that listens to us "crazy fringe types" on this board, there have been warnings that the jobs recovery is a false one and inflation is coming. Europe is raising their interest rates to fight inflation. That doorknob bernanke is just going to continue to supply easy money in the face of rising inflation while printing more money.

 

[jlprk]

Who caused this? Who is the IDIOT who got rid of Juwan Howard?

 

[Denny Crane]

From a friend of mine on facebook:

Man, I know it's a little tough right now, but jesus. It's not like we're facing utter annihilation like in the Cold War, or tens of thousands of us are being shipped off to die in Vietnam, or half the country is fighting the other half of the country in the Civil War, or we're facing a cold-blooded asshat who basically wanted to wipe off the face of the earth all minorities like Hitler.

At worse we'll face another Great Depression, and there weren't millions dead on the streets over that--the whole thing was pretty much over in a little over a decade. And it built the character of what we all recognize as the Greatest Generation, so it wasn't all bad. And that's assuming it gets that bad, which I (and most economists) really doubt.

It's a shit ton of debt. It sucks. Both parties are finally putting proposals on the table to deal with it, and eventually we will because, as Churchill once said, Americans always do the right thing after we exhaust all other options.

But it's not terminal cancer. There are several generations of Americans who would've loved to have had a big damned debt being the worst problem on the horizon. People need to get a grip. It's not the end of days. That's what the media is feeding you because that's what sells.

50M+ died to get us out of the Great Depression.

 

[mook]

50M+ died to get us out of the Great Depression.

Where does that number come from? Or are you saying it was the largest short-term US government spending program of all time (WWII) that did it, and so you get to count all those corpses?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

In real life, I'm known as a pessimist. But I'm a piker compared to many of you on this board. Many of you actually seem to believe the sky is falling, that things are much worse today than they ever have been, that every single aspect of life is going badly wrong and that we are on the brink of a civilization-ending disaster.

I think y'all are fucking nuts. Look around. Life ain't so bad.

barfo

I guess it just depends on one's point of view.

I know a minimum of 20 people who's businesses were taxed into bankruptcy when Clinton passed thru congress the largest tax increase in history. Some of them have never recovered. I know a person worth over 200 million dollars. He'll never have to use a cardboard sign to make money to eat on. So I guess he's always content. Not that I support the great american dream, but this country has developed to where making a decent living or owning a business has never been more difficult. Or at least since the Great Depression.

As to the sky falling down, it isn't right now. But at some point in time, margin calls. This deficit and the entitlement programs that have created a true cradle to grave welfare state to anyone who chooses to use it as such is not sustainable over the long haul. Will there be subtle changes to bring everything back in line? Maybe. Will those changes be somewhat catastrophic to most of us as a whole? Maybe as well.

I've lived in a car and I've owned my own house. And the difference between the two was, literally, $100. Maybe not for you, barfo, for for many of us that $100 is one slim line that can easily be crossed over. Granted, that's crossed over in either direction, but I think anyone who thinks this country is headed in a positive direction currently is incorrect. Again, at some point in the near future, margin calls.

 

[Denny Crane]

Where does that number come from? Or are you saying it was the largest short-term US government spending program of all time (WWII) that did it, and so you get to count all those corpses?

Unemployment was virtually unchanged from the start of the Depression and the start of WW II. The Nazis' Depression ended long before ours did.

So yeah.

 

[mook]

Unemployment was virtually unchanged from the start of the Depression and the start of WW II. The Nazis' Depression ended long before ours did.

So yeah.

The Nazi government spent shit-tons of money building up their army, which brought them out of the depression. Our government consequently spent shit-tons of money, which also brought our country out of the depression.

So the lesson learned here is that to get out of major economic problems, governments need to spend shit-tons of money.

Yet all I hear from you is how we have to cut government spending to get us out of our current economic problems. How do you reconcile that?

 

[barfo]

I guess it just depends on one's point of view.

I know a minimum of 20 people who's businesses were taxed into bankruptcy when Clinton passed thru congress the largest tax increase in history.

First off, the Clinton tax increase wasn't the largest in history. That's just a Republican talking point, a.k.a. lie. The actual largest tax increase in US history was at the beginning of WWII. But since the number of dollars, not adjusted for 50 years of inflation, raised by the 1993 tax increase was larger, Republicans have claimed it is the largest. But that's highly misleading and pretty much dishonest.

Secondly, I'm quite skeptical of your claim to know of 20 businesses that were driven into bankruptcy by the Clinton tax increase. That tax increase raised the corporate rate from 34 to 35%. The idea that large numbers of profitable companies were driven into bankruptcy by an increase of 1% in the tax rate on their profits is pretty ridiculous.

You might know 20 businesses that claim they were driven into bankruptcy by the Clinton tax increase. But I'd say that they are not telling the truth about the real reason they went under.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

The Nazi government spent shit-tons of money building up their army, which brought them out of the depression. Our government consequently spent shit-tons of money, which also brought our country out of the depression.

So the lesson learned here is that to get out of major economic problems, governments need to spend shit-tons of money.

Yet all I hear from you is how we have to cut government spending to get us out of our current economic problems. How do you reconcile that?

The government was spending massive amounts. It was WAR and hiring millions of soldiers who had no place to spend it (overseas) that made the difference.

 

[barfo]

The government was spending massive amounts. It was WAR and hiring millions of soldiers who had no place to spend it (overseas) that made the difference.

What? How does the government hiring people who don't spend the money help the economy???

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

First off, the Clinton tax increase wasn't the largest in history. That's just a Republican talking point, a.k.a. lie. The actual largest tax increase in US history was at the beginning of WWII. But since the number of dollars, not adjusted for 50 years of inflation, raised by the 1993 tax increase was larger, Republicans have claimed it is the largest. But that's highly misleading and pretty much dishonest.

Secondly, I'm quite skeptical of your claim to know of 20 businesses that were driven into bankruptcy by the Clinton tax increase. That tax increase raised the corporate rate from 34 to 35%. The idea that large numbers of profitable companies were driven into bankruptcy by an increase of 1% in the tax rate on their profits is pretty ridiculous.

You might know 20 businesses that claim they were driven into bankruptcy by the Clinton tax increase. But I'd say that they are not telling the truth about the real reason they went under.

barfo

It's true. Their taxes rose sharply, were retro'd back one full year and they didn't have the money. My friends who owned the pizza joint went under, the guy who I coached our daughter's softball team with went under due to tax increase, several people at church had to close their businesses... it was devastating.

 

[barfo]

It's true. Their taxes rose sharply, were retro'd back one full year and they didn't have the money. My friends who owned the pizza joint went under, the guy who I coached our daughter's softball team with went under due to tax increase, several people at church had to close their businesses... it was devastating.

Bullshit. Sorry, but that's just bullshit. The tax law was signed in August of 1993, and applied to tax year 1993.

Just because people whine about taxes doesn't mean that taxes are the source of their problems. People have lots of problems. It's always easy to blame the tax man. Pizza joints go out of business even in years there are not tax increases.

barfo

 

[RR7]

Didn't you also know quite a few people moving their businesses from Oregon because of their new or changed tax last year? Whole bunch of unlucky friends, it seems. Or you just know a shit load of people.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Well, I really don't care what barfo thinks or says- it's true. He may not want it to be, but that doesn't change the facts any. Many small businesses folded when those taxes were levied.

 

[barfo]

Well, I really don't care what barfo thinks or says- it's true. He may not want it to be, but that doesn't change the facts any. Many small businesses folded when those taxes were levied.

Bullshit.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

What? How does the government hiring people who don't spend the money help the economy???

barfo

Buy bonds.

 

[barfo]

Buy bonds.

I'm not following you. So the government hires people who spend their paychecks to buy bonds from the government. How does that help?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not following you. So the government hires people who spend their paychecks to buy bonds from the government. How does that help?

barfo

Bonds are instruments of wealth. People who normally pay interest were collecting it.

 

[PapaG]

Barfo the Optimist is now calling Bullshit! on things he can't possibly know.

I guess that happens when you're an old man, and your entire worldview is destroying our society.

 

[barfo]

Barfo the Optimist is now calling Bullshit! on things he can't possibly know.

I guess that happens when you're an old man, and your entire worldview is destroying our society.

Pretty sure my worldview has no significant effect on our society. If it did things would be much different.

barfo