OT: Cavaliers fire Mike Brown as coach

[Natebishop3]

It must make a difference to them otherwise they wouldn't ask for changes.

Do they actually ask for the changes, or is it the family members? Because in my experience, it's usually the family with the "special needs" child or relative that gets the most offended about how that person is treated.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Some of you are amazingly cold. Some of these people have very difficult lives. If calling them by a specific name or term eases or lessens the burden and difficulties that they have to endure on a daily bases why the hell not let them say how they want to be referred to as. Some of you are acting like you're the ones being inconvenienced. You're not.

You seem to be conflating how I interact with individuals and how I interact with society as a whole. When dealing with individuals, I am exceedingly polite and kind. I make great effort not to offend people, and to get along with everyone. It actually annoys my wife sometimes that I can amiably tease total strangers without creating problems, that I'm a peacemaker (even amongst her family), and that basically everyone likes me.

But independently from that, I take issue with people attempting to change and neuter language because they don't like the way it makes them feel. I have always told my children that you cannot control what goes on around you, or even always what happens to you, but you can always control what you do and how you respond to your circumstances. I understand that many people have hard lives. I understand that many people are bullied for things that are beyond their control. I understand that many people face discrimination on a daily basis. What I don't understand is why some people feel it acceptable or necessary to mandate that others change to accommodate them. State a preference. Make a request. Then deal with the result, positive or negative. To insist that others obey your demands for speech and conduct, and then rail against them when they don't, is unreasonable to me.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do they actually ask for the changes, or is it the family members? Because in my experience, it's usually the family with the "special needs" child or relative that gets the most offended about how that person is treated.

OK? And those requests are unreasonable or inconvenient? It's a bad thing for family members to want their loved ones portrayed in as positive or less offensive way as possible?

 

[Natebishop3]

OK? And those requests are unreasonable or inconvenient? It's a bad thing for family members to want their loved ones portrayed in as positive or less offensive way as possible?

Is it a never ending cycle though? Will they want to change it again in a couple of years? What's the shelf life of a term for mentally handicapped?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Is it a never ending cycle though? Will they want to change it again in a couple of years? What's the shelf life of a term for mentally handicapped?

Language and thought evolves. Every year new words are added to the dictionary, existing words are further defined. Some words are even removed. It happens. It's not a bad or inconvenient thing. We're always looking for ways to express ourselves more accurately and fairly.

 

[Natebishop3]

Language and thought evolves. Every year new words are added to the dictionary, existing words are further defined. Some words are even removed. It happens. It's not a bad or inconvenient thing. We're always looking for ways to express ourselves more accurately and fairly.

I think what it boils down to is there are people like you and BC who say, "they're just words, let them have it."

Then there are people like me and Platypus who say, "they're just words, stop making such a big deal out of them."

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I think what it boils down to is there are people like you and BC who say, "they're just words, let them have it."

Then there are people like me and Platypus who say, "they're just words, stop making such a big deal out of them."

The words are weapons. You'd rather keep (and apparently use) the weapon, I'd rather confiscate the weapon.

 

[jlprk]

How about instead of saying "retarded" we say "Cock sucking shit bag with no brains?"

Now that the legal system is running out of reasons to imprison us, this opens a wonderful new area of opportunity to expand their empire.

 

[Natebishop3]

The words are weapons. You'd rather keep (and apparently use) the weapon, I'd rather confiscate the weapon.

Americans used to have a lot thicker armor, me thinks.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

used to be, you sheepishly took what someone called you, or it was pistols at dawn, or if you were unlucky, high noon. nobody wants to die with sweaty armpits.

nowadays, you arent supposed to stick up for yourself, its up to groupthink to stick up for you. and its creating a generation of people who have never looked a bully in the eye and said "you got a fucking problem?"

black eyes heal and broken noses can be reset, and throughout your life you will likely will look back at your scars fondly, if at all.

but swallow your pride and allow someone to walk all over you? you will despise yourself for it till your dying day.

 

[julius]

Americans used to have a lot thicker armor, me thinks.

We also used to pretty much treat anyone who wasn't a white male as though they were a second class citizen.

As someone who has a intellectually disabled cousin, who was called "retard" by people all his childhood (and I know it hurts him) I think it's a little sad that any adult who is a grown up goes out of their way to defend their right to say "that's retarded" (or words/phrases of a similar meaning).

This isn't about being politically correct, or liberal or whatever. It's about giving them same dignity you or I would expect.

Everyone here knows why we use certain words, and what they mean. To act like we're just using the "definition" is disingenuous. People say it (and many other words) because it's culturally acceptable to use certain words, because some people don't have the power to speak up for themselves.

Is it really that big of a deal to you that people ask you not to use pejorative phrases?

 

[Natebishop3]

We also used to pretty much treat anyone who wasn't a white male as though they were a second class citizen.

As someone who has a intellectually disabled cousin, who was called "retard" by people all his childhood (and I know it hurts him) I think it's a little sad that any adult who is a grown up goes out of their way to defend their right to say "that's retarded" (or words/phrases of a similar meaning).

This isn't about being politically correct, or liberal or whatever. It's about giving them same dignity you or I would expect.

Everyone here knows why we use certain words, and what they mean. To act like we're just using the "definition" is disingenuous. People say it (and many other words) because it's culturally acceptable to use certain words, because some people don't have the power to speak up for themselves.

Is it really that big of a deal to you that people ask you not to use pejorative phrases?

The point is, why is it okay to say that it's stupid, dumb, moronic, crazy, or insane, but it's not okay to say retarded? We were discussing the double standard of certain words, and debating the social process of political correctness.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Insane could be offensive, but who would complain? They would be too busy waterfalling eskimo compound flakes

 

[Natebishop3]

Insane could be offensive, but who would complain? They would be too busy waterfalling eskimo compound flakes

The family of the insane person. That's usually who does it.

 

[julius]

Insane could be offensive, but who would complain? They would be too busy waterfalling eskimo compound flakes

good to know you put people with intellectual and physical disabilities on par with insane people.

 

[julius]

The point is, why is it okay to say that it's stupid, dumb, moronic, crazy, or insane, but it's not okay to say retarded? We were discussing the double standard of certain words, and debating the social process of political correctness.

because groups of people weren't labeled as "stupid" "dumb" "moronic" and put into institutions, or ridiculed in public.

And people who were insane tend to not really know you're calling other people, or certain acts, "insane".

In essence, yes, you can use it, but you have to realize why people ask you not to. Work with people with varying degrees of intellectual and physical disabilities, and you wouldn't talk like this. And if you claim that you do, or have in the past (and still talk like this), it's probably best that you don't continue doing so.

 

[Natebishop3]

because groups of people weren't labeled as "stupid" "dumb" "moronic" and put into institutions, or ridiculed in public.

And people who were insane tend to not really know you're calling other people, or certain acts, "insane".

In essence, yes, you can use it, but you have to realize why people ask you not to. Work with people with varying degrees of intellectual and physical disabilities, and you wouldn't talk like this. And if you claim that you do, or have in the past (and still talk like this), it's probably best that you don't continue doing so.

Let me ask you though, do you think it's the word or the act of bullying that upsets your cousin? Any word, said in the wrong context, could be just as hurtful as retard. That's my whole point Julius. We had a debate about the word, and other words, and why those words are no longer acceptable. I don't see what's so wrong with that. I get that some people just want us to accept that the word is taboo and move on, but I like to debate things.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

good to know you put people with intellectual and physical disabilities on par with insane people.

good to know you invented some imaginary shit about me purely inside your head

i think a large reason why people are against the word retarded is that it was often used with such a broad stroke. not just people with down syndrome. brain injuries, learning disabilities, etc, hell, sufferers of neural syphilis, were all considered "retards"

people with palsy, MS, ALS, etc were called retards, when their brains worked just fine.

its just an ugly word, it even sounds gross. not as gross as "moist" but yeah. i dont use it.

as far as insanity goes, they likely would rather be addressed as schizophrenic, agoraphobic, obsessive compulsive, etc, in the same way. "insane" was also used with broad strokes. ask frances farmer about it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

because groups of people weren't labeled as "stupid" "dumb" "moronic" and put into institutions, or ridiculed in public.

And people who were insane tend to not really know you're calling other people, or certain acts, "insane".

In essence, yes, you can use it, but you have to realize why people ask you not to. Work with people with varying degrees of intellectual and physical disabilities, and you wouldn't talk like this. And if you claim that you do, or have in the past (and still talk like this), it's probably best that you don't continue doing so.

That's really offensive that you would suggest that people with bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, dissociative identity disorder, and other mental illnesses don't deserve the same dignity and respect that you afford to those with mental developmental impairments, and even have the audacity to suggest that they don't have the capacity to understand the pejorative nature of the word "insane". That's an incredibly hypocritical post.

 

[Natebishop3]

good to know you invented some imaginary shit about me purely inside your head

i think a large reason why people are against the word retarded is that it was often used with such a broad stroke. not just people with down syndrome. brain injuries, learning disabilities, etc, hell, sufferers of neural syphilis, were all considered "retards"

people with palsy, MS, ALS, etc were called retards, when their brains worked just fine.

its just an ugly word, it even sounds gross. not as gross as "moist" but yeah. i dont use it.

as far as insanity goes, they likely would rather be addressed as schizophrenic, agoraphobic, obsessive compulsive, etc, in the same way. "insane" was also used with broad strokes. ask frances farmer about it.

It's totally okay to say insane, crazy, or nuts.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i especially like nuts

 

[Natebishop3]

i especially like nuts

We know you do. Salty ones.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Unsalted nuts just aren't as good, everyone knows that

 

[jlprk]

1) because groups of people weren't labeled as "stupid" "dumb" "moronic" and put into institutions, or ridiculed in public.

2) And people who were insane tend to not really know you're calling other people, or certain acts, "insane".

1) Huh? Where were you? Oh yeah, not born yet.

2) Huh? If you're that unknowledgeable, you shouldn't work with them.

Here are the definitions by IQ that I was taught.

70-80 Borderline deficiency
50-69 Moron
20-49 Imbecile
<20 Idiot

One word goes out of fashion and another comes into fashion. Your problem is that you think the stupids are oppressed by the smarts. Most smarts feel oppressed by the stupids in power. We need a vocabulary to argue and insult. You want to mute us and prevent us from becoming empowered with any terms that pack a punch.