OT- Diogu unlikely to resign with Kings

[Wheels]

DO IT KP!

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60586/20090715/diogu_unlikely_to_re_sign_with_kings/

 

[SheedSoNasty]

I'd MUCH rather have him back than Sean May. Given time, I really think that Diogu could produce.

 

[Minstrel]

Yeah, I actually think Diogu would be a decent "backup banger," considering we have Przybilla and Oden for all the center minutes and just need someone for the 11-12 minutes that Aldridge doesn't play. He's no great shakes on defense, but he's always been an efficient player because he rebounds reasonably well and scores at a strong efficiency. One reason he's an efficient scorer is he draws free throws really well (21.4% draw-foul rate).

For a cheap contract, he'd fill a minor need and preserve almost all of Portland's cap space for an upgrade to the starting unit.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I'd like a guy who can make a layup so no, May is better if he can stay healthy.

 

[Haakzilla]

I'd like a guy who can make a layup so no, May is better if he can stay healthy.

...not true

 

[RickyRubio]

I'd like a guy who can make a layup so no, May is better if he can stay healthy.

You have a point. Ike couldn't even beat out Frye last year.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

You have a point. Ike couldn't even beat out Frye last year.

Ike consistently hasn't been able to beat anyone out during his career.

 

[Wheels]

Ike consistently hasn't been able to beat anyone out during his career.

So far neither has Bayless... but how many think that Sergio was a better prospect than Bayless?

 

[Minstrel]

Ike consistently hasn't been able to beat anyone out during his career.

Neither has Sessions. He took over from Ridnour due to injury to Ridnour. Sometimes coaches make mistakes.

Diogu was a superior player to Frye, even if McMillan didn't play him over Frye much.

 

[Ed O]

I'd like a guy who can make a layup so no, May is better if he can stay healthy.

Yeah, good point. He only shot 52.7% from the field last year overall. It's much better to judge him on the 19 field goals he attempted as a Blazer than on his career.

Ed O.

 

[Wheels]

Neither has Sessions. He took over from Ridnour due to injury to Ridnour. Sometimes coaches make mistakes.

Diogu was a superior player to Frye, even if McMillan didn't play him over Frye much.

Especially for what we needed. Compared to what we already had, and what Frye offered.

 

[RickyRubio]

So far neither has Bayless... but how many think that Sergio was a better prospect than Bayless?

Good point!!!1

But, in Bayless defense... He was a rookie on a team giving their backup PG his one last shot.

Ike just flat out never made anything on any team he ever played on lol

 

[BrianFromWA]

Except at ASU, where he set many of the records Pendergraph's fans will point out he's a Top 10 member of.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

So far neither has Bayless... but how many think that Sergio was a better prospect than Bayless?

Dude you're actually comparing Diogu's 5 seasons in the league to Bayless' 1? No comparison, Diogu has had adequate time to show what he can be, unfortunately that is a guy who is not good enough to get on the court regularly.

 

[Wheels]

Good point!!!1

But, in Bayless defense... He was a rookie on a team giving their backup PG his one last shot.

Ike just flat out never made anything on any team he ever played on lol

I agree Bayless was a PG and a Rookie, it wasnt a knock on him, it was more in agreement with Minstrel's comment saying sometimes the coach doesnt always make the right decision.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Neither has Sessions. He took over from Ridnour due to injury to Ridnour. Sometimes coaches make mistakes.

Diogu was a superior player to Frye, even if McMillan didn't play him over Frye much.

1 coach, fine. 2? Maybe. How many coaches does Diogu have to go through before people understand that he's not a very good basketball player relative to NBA competition? Sessions has been through 1 coach. Diogu? Plenty.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Yeah, good point. He only shot 52.7% from the field last year overall. It's much better to judge him on the 19 field goals he attempted as a Blazer than on his career.

Ed O.

No, you're right. It's much better to judge him on the rest of his career. A guy who has played for numerous teams and coaches and can't seem to find time on the court regularly. Coincidence? I don't think so.

 

[Ed O]

No, you're right. It's much better to judge him on the rest of his career. A guy who has played for numerous teams and coaches and can't seem to find time on the court regularly. Coincidence? I don't think so.

What does that have to do with the post I replied to? Does he not play a lot because he can't make layups?

Or are you changing the subject because you know you were typing out of your ass?

Ed O.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

What does that have to do with the post I replied to? Does he not play a lot because he can't make layups?

Or are you changing the subject because you know you were typing out of your ass?

Ed O.

If you can't see that it's hyperbole then you must have a learning disability. We're allowed make hyperbolic statements on sports forums. I would think that you could comprehend when someone makes a statement like "this guy can't play defense, or make a jump shot" it's hyperbolic. I didn't say he doesn't play because he can't make layups. Try to follow along.

 

[Minstrel]

1 coach, fine. 2? Maybe. How many coaches does Diogu have to go through before people understand that he's not a very good basketball player relative to NBA competition?

Number of coaches "gone through" doesn't measure a player's ability level, his on-court production does. His per-minute efficiency is very high and when he got time with Sacramento at the end of last season, he was hugely productive for full games.

A player can be systematically undervalued. This has happened plenty in baseball and that New York Times Mag article about Shane Battier was describing how it happens in basketball, too. If a player is systematically undervalued, then being benched by a number of coaches isn't all that surprising or meaningful.

I'm hardly advocating giving him a starting position. 10-12 minutes is not a lot to gamble on a player who's per-minute efficiency is great. He doesn't even need to be able to translate that to big minutes, because no one is advocating giving him big minutes.

 

[Wheels]

Dude you're actually comparing Diogu's 5 seasons in the league to Bayless' 1? No comparison, Diogu has had adequate time to show what he can be, unfortunately that is a guy who is not good enough to get on the court regularly.

if youre looking for a starting caliber PF or even 20 MPG PF he is not the guy, but he is def a guy who could spell LaMarcus for 6 minutes each half. and I didnt compare the seasons amount.. I said that just because he didnt play doesnt mean he cant play. And while they arent on the same level of potential.. I remember Jermaine Oneal not beating people out for a while too.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Number of coaches "gone through" doesn't measure a player's ability level, his on-court production does. His per-minute efficiency is very high and when he got time with Sacramento at the end of last season, he was hugely productive for full games.

You're right, Ike did have some productive games for Sacramento. Although, I don't think that's representative of his ability. I think it's silly to discount that so many coaches have dismissed him so openly. I fully agree that coaches can make mistakes, but in Ike's case it's been every coach.

A player can be systematically undervalued. This has happened plenty in baseball and that New York Times Mag article about Shane Battier was describing how it happens in basketball, too. If a player is systematically undervalued, then being benched by a number of coaches isn't all that surprising or meaningful.

Any examples you can give?

I'm hardly advocating giving him a starting position. 10-12 minutes is not a lot to gamble on a player who's per-minute efficiency is great. He doesn't even need to be able to translate that to big minutes, because no one is advocating giving him big minutes.

I just don't think he's good enough, I really don't. I remember that the Blazers often lost leads with Ike in the game. Can it fully be attributed to him? Probably not. He's an inadequate backup IMO and in the opinions of every person who has coached him at the professional level.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

if youre looking for a starting caliber PF or even 20 MPG PF he is not the guy, but he is def a guy who could spell LaMarcus for 6 minutes each half. and I didnt compare the seasons amount.. I said that just because he didnt play doesnt mean he cant play. And while they arent on the same level of potential.. I remember Jermaine Oneal not beating people out for a while too.

I really don't think Ike can spell LaMarcus effectively for 6 minutes per half. I'm fully aware that coaches make mistakes, but I'm not inclined to think every coach at the professional level who has coached Ike has thought he isn't good enough to play regular minutes. You think Frye is a horrible player that Ike couldn't beat out? Look at the rest of Ike's career, he's played behind players much less than Frye. I hope Ike can go to a team like New Orleans and get some PT and try and disprove me and the rest of the coaches. He's a good guy.

 

[Ed O]

If you can't see that it's hyperbole then you must have a learning disability. We're allowed make hyperbolic statements on sports forums. I would think that you could comprehend when someone makes a statement like "this guy can't play defense, or make a jump shot" it's hyperbolic. I didn't say he doesn't play because he can't make layups. Try to follow along.

It's hard to follow along if/when you can simply define terms incorrectly and expect others to know what you mean.

Hyperbole is based on truth... not the polar opposite of what the truth is.

Diogu is actually very good at making layups. You complaining about him being bad is simply making stuff up that's not at all accurate... not hyperbolic.

If you just wanted to make fun of him because you didn't like him, you might as well have called him too old or too Chinese.

Ed O.

 

[RickyRubio]

If you can't see that it's hyperbole then you must have a learning disability. We're allowed make hyperbolic statements on sports forums. I would think that you could comprehend when someone makes a statement like "this guy can't play defense, or make a jump shot" it's hyperbolic. I didn't say he doesn't play because he can't make layups. Try to follow along.

Please don't ever say hyperbole again.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

It's hard to follow along if/when you can simply define terms incorrectly and expect others to know what you mean.

Hyperbole is based on truth... not the polar opposite of what the truth is.

Diogu is actually very good at making layups. You complaining about him being bad is simply making stuff up that's not at all accurate... not hyperbolic.

If you just wanted to make fun of him because you didn't like him, you might as well have called him too old or too Chinese.

Ed O.

As a Blazer, he missed a number of easy opportunities such as layups. That's not false. Your opinion that what I said is the opposite of what the truth is. I don't have a personal axe to grind with the guy, it just gets tiring when people keep asking for the guy who can't beat Channing Fye and plenty of other players who are less than stellar in his career. Every coach he's played for determined that he's not good enough to get regular minutes. That's not making fun of him, that's just a fair assessment. It's funny to see you get so sensitive about a guy who isn't worth much more than Shavlik Randolph, if at all at the NBA level according to his coaches. Bravo!

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Please don't ever say hyperbole again.

Please don't post again.


PS- Hyperbole.

 

[Minstrel]

You're right, Ike did have some productive games for Sacramento. Although, I don't think that's representative of his ability. I think it's silly to discount that so many coaches have dismissed him so openly. I fully agree that coaches can make mistakes, but in Ike's case it's been every coach.

I don't think it's fully representative of his ability either, of course. I don't expect him to average 30/15 as a starter. My point is that his per-minute efficiency is not necessarily a pure mirage. I'm sure he's benefited to some extent by small sample sizes and limited minutes, but I think his play for Sacramento (and for Golden State, before he ended up in Nelson's doghouse) illustrates that there's also talent behind those numbers.

As for every coach minimizing his role, isn't it also interesting that he keeps getting jobs? If he really weren't an NBA-caliber player, why does he keep turning up on NBA rosters? The thing is, coaches, while certainly very knowledgeable about basketball, are just as susceptible to prejudice as anyone else. They see an undersized power forward who doesn't "look good" when he plays, it's not terribly unsurprising that they never give him much chance to prove himself. Frye "looks" much more like a basketball player than Diogu...that doesn't necessarily mean he's actually a better basketball player.

Any examples you can give?

Sure. In baseball, for example, Jack Cust and Ryan Howard were kept out of the major leagues for years because they didn't fit conceptions of what a good hitter was...they hit for low average, didn't have speed and weren't good defenders. But, to different extents, they've been successful now that they've been given a shot.

I just don't think he's good enough, I really don't. I remember that the Blazers often lost leads with Ike in the game. Can it fully be attributed to him? Probably not.

Even if that is true, a large portion of that is probably who he's backing up. The team is worse when he's in the game instead of Aldridge. Not necessarily because he's awful, but because he's a definite downgrade on Aldridge. Looking at his +/- last year, he had a negative one with Portland and a positive one with Sacramento.

He's an inadequate backup IMO and in the opinions of every person who has coached him at the professional level.

The numbers, though, show that he rebounds a good percentage of missed shots while he's in the game and scores at a very efficient clip. His defense isn't good but, again, we're talking about a backup for 10-12 minutes. A guy who can rebound and score efficiently seems like a very good player to have soak up a few minutes per game, even if he has significant weaknesses to his game. He may not have been beloved by coaches, but there is evidence, at least, that he could fill a minor role adequately or even well.

 

[LameR]

I loved how he rebounded at times, but he was a horrible shooter from close range. I remember multiple times where he would get 3-4 offensive rebounds, but it would all be from his own misses. I think we'd be better off with someone who could actually make a shot. For all the "banger" talk, it's important to remember we do still have Oden/Joel as our center. Not saying we should get someone like Frye though.

 

[Natebishop3]

Please don't post again.


PS- Hyperbole.

Sidenote - Hyperbole is this forums favorite word.