OT: Ellis/#6 Pick Available

[barfo]

Is Ellis and 6 better than Brand and 2?

What is the sound of one Brand clapping?

I kind of think Ellis is more useful to us than Brand. The #2 is more useful than the #6, obviously. So I call it a draw.

barfo

 

[illmatic99]

BTW, there's a reason that 6 is available. Probably b/c Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins, and Johnson will be gone, and GSW doesn't want to pin its hopes on the Aminus, Davises and Udohs of the world.

True, but we have the pieces (Rudy, Bayless, later picks, $$) to move up from 6 to 3/4.

Is Ellis and 6 better than Brand and 2?

I think Turner has superstar potential, so I like the latter deal. But Philly seems dead set on Turner, so that deal might not currently be available.

 

[lakeblazer]

I think if that opportunity were out there, ellis and Roy in the backcourt would be pretty damn good

 

[Rhal]

First off try to remember who he plays for, there's no such thing as a bad shot unless it's taken late in the clock. Secondly, he'd probably be this team's second option or more likely he'd be the team's true sixth man -- a guy who plays 32 minutes a night backing up both the guard spots.

I don't think Ellis would be happy coming off the bench and not being able to jack up every shot he feels like. As for him being an upgrade defensively, I never liked his defense. He has fast hands and gets steals which is nice but I have never liked his overall defense.
Although now that I think about him giving up just Miller/pryz for him and the 6th I can't really complain about even with me disliking him as much as I do.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I think it's ridiculous for random people to assume to know what a player would or would not like. 32+ minutes a game on a winning team seems pretty awesome to me.

 

[Ed O]

I think it's ridiculous for random people to assume to know what a player would or would not like. 32+ minutes a game on a winning team seems pretty awesome to me.

Making $11m and not playing a minute all year seems pretty awesome to me, too. Do you think that Ellis thinks the same way you and I do?

Ed O.

 

[Blaze01]

Ellis would be perfect fit next to Roy in the backcourt...

If POR could obtain him AND the #6 without having to give up Roy, Oden, Batum or LA? Do it and don't look back.....

 

[Rhal]

I think it's ridiculous for random people to assume to know what a player would or would not like. 32+ minutes a game on a winning team seems pretty awesome to me.

I'm not a random person, i'm a random blazer fan. Theres a big difference!

 

[RR7]

BTW, there's a reason that 6 is available. Probably b/c Wall, Turner, Favors, Cousins, and Johnson will be gone, and GSW doesn't want to pin its hopes on the Aminus, Davises and Udohs of the world.

But if you get to 6, and Minny likes Johnson, you can assumeSacramento isn't taking him. So offer Rudy and 6 for 4.

 

[Minstrel]

Ellis would be perfect fit next to Roy in the backcourt...

If POR could obtain him AND the #6 without having to give up Roy, Oden, Batum or LA? Do it and don't look back.....

Agreed.

 

[Eastoff]

Is Ellis and 6 better than Brand and 2?

I haven't followed too closely, but I assume you mean elton Brand, who is 31 and definitely declining in stats. So yes, I would prefer a younger PG like player.

 

[BrianFromWA]

well, yeah, but you're also getting Evan Turner or Favors or Cousins, instead of Udoh, Davis or Monroe. That's why I asked...of course Ellis > Brand

 

[STOMP]

he also averaged 41.4 minutes per game with almost taking 25 shots a game. I do not see Ellis as a point guard, he is more of a shooting guard and we already have a much better 2 guard on our team then Ellis.

Portland's 2 guard is a pretty decent creator as is Ellis... they averaged 4.7 and 5.3 assists per game last year respectively. Combining them would give a team two guys who could Go or pass... they'd be a nightmare to defend. Defenses absolutely couldn't double team either.

context would help illuminate the stats you relayed. Monta's teammates were even more injured then the Trailblazers and most of the season they didn't have a lot of other options available who could create their shot. As the injuries mounted and his minutes and shot rate escalated attempting to fill the void, it wasn't surprising that his efficiency fell off. I doubt he'd be upset about playing a more reasonable amount and sharing the ball on a winning club.

STOMP

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Making $11m and not playing a minute all year seems pretty awesome to me, too. Do you think that Ellis thinks the same way you and I do?

Ed O.

That seems awesome to me as well. I don't really see your point.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Ellis is a VERY overrated guard. He plays okay defense but at the price of taking a million shots per game. He has great talent but I don't think he could take being the third or fourth option on a team.

3rd or 4th option? He'd be the 2nd option on this team behind Roy. LMA would be regulated to the 3rd guy, as he should be since he doesn't play down on the block and can't create his own shot with any consistency.

Monta could play behind both Miller & Roy, be our #1 option with the 2nd unit and would be a nightmare to defend with him & Roy paired together since they both can create off the wing. If all it takes are expirings, KP would be a fool to pass it up.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think it's ridiculous for random people to assume to know what a player would or would not like. 32+ minutes a game on a winning team seems pretty awesome to me.

Making $11m and not playing a minute all year seems pretty awesome to me, too. Do you think that Ellis thinks the same way you and I do?

That seems awesome to me as well. I don't really see your point.

The point is that you, I, and Ed would all be happy with 82 DNP-CD's, but I think it's safe to assume that Ellis would be pissed at receiving the same. Similarly, you, I, and Ed would be happy coming off the bench playing 32 mpg, but that doesn't mean Ellis would. What would appeal to us mere mortals is not a good barometer of what would appeal to NBA players.

 

[LittleAlex]

Doesn't anyone remember how Ellis said he couldn't co-exist with Curry. How do you think he will respond to being next to Roy?

Monte is a volume shooting, over-rate piece of garbage. A poor man's Damon.

Just by being on the team he would make them worse.

 

[mook]

Doesn't anyone remember how Ellis said he couldn't co-exist with Curry. How do you think he will respond to being next to Roy?

Monte is a volume shooting, over-rate piece of garbage. A poor man's Damon.

Did Damon ever have a year where he shot above 41%FG? Monta Ellis is a career 47% shooter. That's pretty damned good. Damon was a far superior three point shooter, but after that the comparison ends.

Ellis took a ton of shots last year because there weren't a ton of other options. Yeah, he took 22 shots a night last year, but even factoring that in he only took 15 shots/game over his career. That's not that many for a guy coached by Don Nelson.

He was kind of a bad fit alongside Curry, mostly because neither guy is big enough to guard shooting guards. Playing beside Roy that wouldn't be a problem.

If you want to argue Ellis is a bad pickup, look at his three point percentage. A career .300 shooter. Yuck. But he's only 24, and that shot has improved every year over the past three years.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Did Damon ever have a year where he shot above 41%FG? Monta Ellis is a career 47% shooter. That's pretty damned good. Damon was a far superior three point shooter, but after that the comparison ends.

Ellis took a ton of shots last year because there weren't a ton of other options. Yeah, he took 22 shots a night last year, but even factoring that in he only took 15 shots/game over his career. That's not that many for a guy coached by Don Nelson.

He was kind of a bad fit alongside Curry, mostly because neither guy is big enough to guard shooting guards. Playing beside Roy that wouldn't be a problem.

If you want to argue Ellis is a bad pickup, look at his three point percentage. A career .300 shooter. Yuck. But he's only 24, and that shot has improved every year over the past three years.

Agreed. Also you have to figure in some nights at the end of the season they only played 6-7 players the whole game. In an up tempo style game, that is alot of shots available when half the team is filled with D league players.

 

[STOMP]

Doesn't anyone remember how Ellis said he couldn't co-exist with Curry. How do you think he will respond to being next to Roy?

actually it's you who has the memory problem... he said they wouldn't win together as a starting backcourt because they're both small. A glance at their predraft #'s has them both at about 6'2, 180 pounds... is that your idea of winning hoops?

How would he fare playing with Roy? In the interview you sited (but distorted) he claims to be only focused on winning and being a professional. He also obviously would rather be paired with a bigger guard because he wants to win.

Monte is a volume shooting, over-rate piece of garbage. A poor man's Damon.

5'8 vs 6'2, a long range jumpshooter vs a slasher/efficient midrange shooter, Damon was an easy target to attack on D while Ellis is actually pretty decent especially vs PGs

here's a head to head comparison of arguably their best seasons which highlights just how little their games have in common

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

Agreed. Also you have to figure in some nights at the end of the season they only played 6-7 players the whole game.

the Warriors were so down on bodies last year that Ellis played all 48 minutes 12 times last season including one OT game where he played 53

STOMP

 

[mgb]

actually it's you who has the memory problem... he said they wouldn't win together as a starting backcourt because they're both small. A glance at their predraft #'s has them both at about 6'2, 180 pounds... is that your idea of winning hoops?

How would he fare playing with Roy? In the interview you sited (but distorted) he claims to be only focused on winning and being a professional. He also obviously would rather be paired with a bigger guard because he wants to win.

5'8 vs 6'2, a long range jumpshooter vs a slasher/efficient midrange shooter, Damon was an easy target to attack on D while Ellis is actually pretty decent especially vs PGs

here's a head to head comparison of arguably their best seasons which highlights just how little their games have in common

STOMP

One stat that jumps out is the assists. Other than that Ellis matches up pretty well.

 

[STOMP]

One stat that jumps out is the assists. Other than that Ellis matches up pretty well.

well Damon was the unquestioned man on that expansion Toronto club and had the ball in his hands almost all the time. In the season I sited for Monta the ball was mostly in Baron Davis's hands... on offense he was the SG. On D he covered the PGs while the bigger BD covered the SGs

STOMP

 

[Nikolokolus]

Doesn't anyone remember how Ellis said he couldn't co-exist with Curry. How do you think he will respond to being next to Roy?

Monte is a volume shooting, over-rate piece of garbage. A poor man's Damon.

Just by being on the team he would make them worse.

He said he couldn't coexist with Curry because they were both undersized ... it meant he got cover 6'6" 2 guards while Curry checked point guards.

 

[STOMP]

btw... unless the W's really are holding a fire sale of their assets to consolidate money for an upcoming sale of the club, if I'm them I'm hoping Aminu is still available at #6. Especially with Maggette now gone they need a SF and the kid is a stud with upside

STOMP

 

[LittleAlex]

My bad.

I suppose I should have read the quote more closely.

But I still believe Monta would be a bad fit here in Portland due to his needing a significant number of shots to be successful. Also, he has never played in a slow down offense so we have absolutely no idea how he will do in such an environment.

Further, if you look at his stats from last year, he averaged 2.8 turnovers a game.
Do you honestly thing "I Hate Turnovers Nate" will be fine with that?

On a different team with a different coach Monta may very well be a good piece of the puzzle.
But not on this team with this coach.

Also, I have no idea how Monta, Miller and Blake would split the point guard minutes.
Yeah, Blake. You know for fucking sure he is going to be resigned using the entire mid-level exception.

 

[Nikolokolus]

My bad.

I suppose I should have read the quote more closely.

But I still believe Monta would be a bad fit here in Portland due to his needing a significant number of shots to be successful. Also, he has never played in a slow down offense so we have absolutely no idea how he will do in such an environment.

Further, if you look at his stats from last year, he averaged 2.8 turnovers a game.
Do you honestly thing "I Hate Turnovers Nate" will be fine with that?

On a different team with a different coach Monta may very well be a good piece of the puzzle.
But not on this team with this coach.

Also, I have no idea how Monta, Miller and Blake would split the point guard minutes.
Yeah, Blake. You know for fucking sure he is going to be resigned using the entire mid-level exception.

Adjusted for pace his turnovers aren't all that bad (espcially considering that he averaged almost 42 minutes a game) his turnover rate was only 13%.

Look, I don't think Ellis is a superstar by any stretch of the imagination and there would definitely be some risks, but I think he's a talent and he'd be one of the few guards in the league that I think would actually compliment Brandon pretty well (his shooting percentages from distance continue to improve every year, as well as his assist rate). Ellis alone doesn't really excite me, but I just think that inclusion of the sixth pick and only having to shed expiring contracts and maybe a youngster or two is just too much to pass up.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Are we really saying that Ellis and the #6 is not worth our expiring contracts? Even if Miller is one of them?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Are we really saying that Ellis and the #6 is not worth our expiring contracts? Even if Miller is one of them?

I think it's well worth it, but I guess there are a lot of people really down on Ellis as a player. Must be the tats and the fact that he kills us every time we play GS.

 

[BrianFromWA]

It's probably racism. I mean, look at who the team really cares about here: Rudy, formerly Blake and Sergio, the "White Team", Joel, Raef and where he'd be traded to, Diener and Dickau....Roy....