OT: Greatest Power Forward of All-Time?

[NOVoodoo]

I was just having this conversation and felt like I'd come over to the computer to pose the question to s2.

With Tim Duncan performing on the level that he's been performing this season, including the playoffs, is he a near unanimous choice for the greatest PF of all-time?

My only problem with that designation is that he's actually played center for a lot of his career, especially these past few seasons.

Otherwise, who challenges him... Malone? Garnett? Barkley? McHale? Pettit?

 

[NOVoodoo]

Just saw that this thread was done before... four years ago... and Duncan got over 56% of the vote for the greatest PF of all-time.

I'm interested to see where he stands now, four years later. I'd assume he'd be more in that 75%+ with his play of the last few years, but hell, that's why I posted the poll... curious to see what ya'll think about his reign.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

He locked it up a decade ago

hoop fam

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Duncan and Garnett are the only ones I've actually seen play. Obviously it's Duncan over Garnett 100% every time.

 

[BrianFromWA]

yeah, I have to go with Timmy. If I had to be contrarian I'd go Malone over KG, but that's partially because I don't like KG.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Barkley gets short shrift in this discussion every time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p2=malonka01&y2=2004&p3=duncati01&y3=2013

Barkley's shooting percentages were better across the board, and was right with them in rebounds. Barkley was slightly ahead of Duncan/Malone in terms of WS/48 while playing on worse teams. His PER was basically equal to Duncan's with a lower USG%.

Basically, they were all three statistically equal, except for Malone simply taking more shots, and Duncan winning titles. In the best PF discussion, I slightly discount Duncan because he's really a center, and I elevate Barkley because he's sub-6'5". I'm OK with being alone in that opinion.

 

[magnifier661]

yeah, I have to go with Timmy. If I had to be contrarian I'd go Malone over KG, but that's partially because I don't like KG.

I don't know man. Kg, even though he's a cock sucker, was such a good defender to go along with his offense. Tim Duncan should be the hands down choice though.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I'd agree with you but Barkley did not play defense.... which is why I find it so funny that he complains about defense all the time.

Barkley gets short shrift in this discussion every time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p2=malonka01&y2=2004&p3=duncati01&y3=2013

Barkley's shooting percentages were better across the board, and was right with them in rebounds. Barkley was slightly ahead of Duncan/Malone in terms of WS/48 while playing on worse teams. His PER was basically equal to Duncan's with a lower USG%.

Basically, they were all three statistically equal, except for Malone simply taking more shots, and Duncan winning titles. In the best PF discussion, I slightly discount Duncan because he's really a center, and I elevate Barkley because he's sub-6'5". I'm OK with being alone in that opinion.

 

[Denny Crane]

KG.

While Duncan played along side guys who played C, he plays like a C.

 

[BBert]

Nate Thurmond? Elvin Hayes? Dolph Schayes?

The poll is all modern era, with one token old timer in the mix. I think questions like this should be looked at by era. How many here actually saw the old greats play?

 

[THE HCP]

I think the players that have done the MOST with LEAST are Iverson and Barkley! Chuck was like 6'4"!


Sent from HCPs Baller-Ass iPhone 5...FAMS!

 

[BlazerWookee]

I voted Duncan with no hesitation, but then I remembered Elvin Hayes. Duncan still wins, but the margin of victory isn't very big...

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Easy answer in duncan. Duncan is arguably the most skilled big of all time. I cant even count on one hand bigs that i would take over him and any that i might take over him are not pf's.

 

[STOMP]

While Duncan played along side guys who played C, he plays like a C.

fans split hairs in their own subjective way as to what differentiates the PF & Center positions. Some will claim it's who plays on the low block, others will say it's who primarily guards the other team's biggest player. Duncan is dominant on both the high and low block and guards the other team's best Big in crunch time regardless of their size, so he really blurs the distinctions between the spots that fans try to draw. Since I view the two Big spots as more or less interchangeable in their responsibilities, I just think of TD as one of the best Bigs ever certainly ranking above anyone thats been mentioned in this thread

STOMP

 

[handiman]

Barkley gets short shrift in this discussion every time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p2=malonka01&y2=2004&p3=duncati01&y3=2013

Barkley's shooting percentages were better across the board, and was right with them in rebounds. Barkley was slightly ahead of Duncan/Malone in terms of WS/48 while playing on worse teams. His PER was basically equal to Duncan's with a lower USG%.

Basically, they were all three statistically equal, except for Malone simply taking more shots, and Duncan winning titles. In the best PF discussion, I slightly discount Duncan because he's really a center, and I elevate Barkley because he's sub-6'5". I'm OK with being alone in that opinion.

Barkely is doomed in these discussions because he generally got owned by Malone head to head. And I don't think many would argue against Duncan having clearly surpassed Malone at this point, so Barkley slides further down the list.

 

[Denny Crane]

fans split hairs in their own subjective way as to what differentiates the PF & Center positions. Some will claim it's who plays on the low block, others will say it's who primarily guards the other team's biggest player. Duncan is dominant on both the high and low block and guards the other team's best Big in crunch time regardless of their size, so he really blurs the distinctions between the spots that fans try to draw. Since I view the two Big spots as more or less interchangeable in their responsibilities, I just think of TD as one of the best Bigs ever certainly ranking above anyone thats been mentioned in this thread

STOMP

He's certainly not better than Kareem or Wilt or several other of the greatest C's.

 

[Masbee]

Barkley gets short shrift in this discussion every time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p2=malonka01&y2=2004&p3=duncati01&y3=2013

Barkley's shooting percentages were better across the board, and was right with them in rebounds. Barkley was slightly ahead of Duncan/Malone in terms of WS/48 while playing on worse teams. His PER was basically equal to Duncan's with a lower USG%.

Basically, they were all three statistically equal, except for Malone simply taking more shots, and Duncan winning titles. In the best PF discussion, I slightly discount Duncan because he's really a center, and I elevate Barkley because he's sub-6'5". I'm OK with being alone in that opinion.

Defense.

Duncan was a game changer on defense.

Barkely never was.

In fact, he often sucked at it. Ask him. He says that is his biggest regret in not paying more attention to being a better defender.

 

[magnifier661]

Two words: sheed wallace

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

He's certainly not better than Kareem or Wilt or several other of the greatest C's.

Kareem? Fine. Wilt? OK. But several others? I dont think so. In fact,, im unsure id be ok with anyone else being mentioned.russell maybe?

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Duncan
Barkley
Malone

 

[maxiep]

What is Elgin Baylor considered, a SF or PF?

 

[RoyToy]

It would have been nice to have seen KG play most of his career on a contending team.

He's the best/most versatile defender I've seen in the NBA. The guy can literally guard 1-5. Great man defender. Great PnR defender. Protects the rim, etc.

Really good offensively. Great passer for a big man. Sets great screens. Can run the offense like a PG.

And then on top of it all, great competitor.

KG has 3 or 4 rings right now if he played with a big 3 like Duncan did his entire career.

 

[Denny Crane]

Kareem? Fine. Wilt? OK. But several others? I dont think so. In fact,, im unsure id be ok with anyone else being mentioned.russell maybe?

Several others. Including Russell, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dave Cowens (maybe) and even Shaq (in his prime, not the fat guy). Heck, Bill Walton pre injury may have been better, no?

People never saw Elvin Hayes play, I guess. That guy was the PF version of Kareem. In the elite sense.

 

[Denny Crane]

It would have been nice to have seen KG play most of his career on a contending team.

He's the best/most versatile defender I've seen in the NBA. The guy can literally guard 1-5. Great man defender. Great PnR defender. Protects the rim, etc.

Really good offensively. Great passer for a big man. Sets great screens. Can run the offense like a PG.

And then on top of it all, great competitor.

KG has 3 or 4 rings right now if he played with a big 3 like Duncan did his entire career.

Really really good offensively. He was essentially the PF version of Pippen. Superior defender and the guy could give you a triple double a lot of nights.

 

[magnifier661]

Really really good offensively. He was essentially the PF version of Pippen. Superior defender and the guy could give you a triple double a lot of nights.

I think people devalue him because they think he was a dick. Personally I would have loved him in Portland!

 

[Masbee]

If you consider Duncan just a big and rank best bigs ever, I would put him 4th for a career (not peak years, a career in total):

Kareem, Russell, Wilt

then,

Duncan.

Just ahead of Shaq, imo. If Shaq could have been high level just another couple years and won one more ring, he would be in the 1st tier and above Duncan. Shaq was more dominant offensively, but Timmy was a better defender. Their career accomplishments are very close. I think it is a close call, unless Timmy gets another ring, then that would seal it for him over Shaq.

Then there are a whole host of bigs who were SuperStars that have at least 1 MVP and 1 Ring (where they were at least the 2nd best player):

Moses Malone (why the hell did the Blazers trade him?)
Bill Walton (amazing that even with the early injuries, he is still an all-time great with the MVP and rings, but I don't think his career accomplishments are close to the others on this list)
David Robinson (has some of the most amazing career stats of all time, didn't have much help until Duncan and didn't always perform his best in playoffs)
Hakeem Olajowon
Bob Pettit
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett

the there is the debate over the ringless greats Charles Barkley and Karl Malone and their place in rankings.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Several others. Including Russell, David Robinson, Hakeem, Dave Cowens (maybe) and even Shaq (in his prime, not the fat guy). Heck, Bill Walton pre injury may have been better, no?

People never saw Elvin Hayes play, I guess. That guy was the PF version of Kareem. In the elite sense.

Shaq was dominate, but id still take duncan every day. David robinson was my favorite player growing up and no way in hell is he as good as timmy d.

Hakeem? Maybe.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I think people devalue him because they think he was a dick. Personally I would have loved him in Portland!

KG is a piece of shit, I could never cheer for him, even if he was a Blazer. I absolutely hate how he plays and carries himself.

Also, anyone saying he's better than Duncan is doing so just to be a contrarian.

 

[magnifier661]

KG is a piece of shit, I could never cheer for him, even if he was a Blazer. I absolutely hate how he plays and carries himself.

Also, anyone saying he's better than Duncan is doing so just to be a contrarian.

Statistically he's better. Duncan has more rings though. That is a big qualifier for greatness for me.

 

[PapaG]

Barkley gets short shrift in this discussion every time.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p2=malonka01&y2=2004&p3=duncati01&y3=2013

Barkley's shooting percentages were better across the board, and was right with them in rebounds. Barkley was slightly ahead of Duncan/Malone in terms of WS/48 while playing on worse teams. His PER was basically equal to Duncan's with a lower USG%.

Basically, they were all three statistically equal, except for Malone simply taking more shots, and Duncan winning titles. In the best PF discussion, I slightly discount Duncan because he's really a center, and I elevate Barkley because he's sub-6'5". I'm OK with being alone in that opinion.

Barkley didn't play defense.