OT: Harden Fined $5000 For Flopping

[dviss1]

And I will explain in full detail why this is ENTIRELY the Referee's fault.

Take a look:



The Referee on the Baseline (End Line) is known as the "Lead Official". The Center Official is the official located at or around the free throw line. In 3 Person Mechanics there are certain locations and areas where the officials are:

A. Supposed to be located

B. Supposed to be watching

Depending on where the ball is on the floor.

When thinking of primary areas to monitor, the key is split down the middle from free throw line to baseline. The Center Official is supposed to maintain his vision on his half of the Key that's closest to him. The Lead Official is supposed to maintain his vision on the side of the that's closest to him.

Now, problem #1. and one of the many reasons why I say NBA officials are Lazy. After Harden's 1st shot, the Lead Official should already be on the strong side of the Key. If he is not there in time, he is supposed to bust his ASS across the key to get a good look at the competitive matchup of Griffin/Harden after the ball stops there. Watch the Center official. He recognizes that the Lead hasn't made a move to the strong side, as he KNOWS he is supposed to, and he does an excellent job of adjusting his position to get a look between Griffin/Harden. The play (since the Lead did not come across the key) is officially in the Center Official's lap. He has no whistle...

Now, who blows the whistle? That's right! The LAZY MOTHERFUCKER that didn't come across the key in the 1st place! It's NOT his call! He gave up the call by NOT being in position! He is on the complete wrong side of the key calling a TERRIBLE call that is outside of his primary area! Harden didn't fool the Ref! He didn't get away with some sort of subterfuge or some ruse! The ref was in the WRONG position (mistake number one) and he guesses on the play (the most terrible assault to our game). Because of the guess, Harden is out 5 grand and we are complaining about floppers...

I'm sorry but this is simple shit... Harden should be fined I guess since those are the rules. But there is absolutely NO accountability on the Referee's part for being too lazy to simply move across the key...

 

[julius]

and it's not a flop?

 

[magnifier661]

NBA refs suck

/thread

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Wait, is the OP arguing that it wasn't a flop?

 

[magnifier661]

Wait, is the OP arguing that it wasn't a flop?

No, he is arguing that the Refs should have known it was a flop in the first place and should have made a "no call"

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yes I agree with you......the refs suck. However knowing that they suck leaves me to believe they need help. And if watching the replay after the game is over, and fining them,even a little, I am all for it.

I think most NBA players will have enough pride not to be known as a "flopper" and they will gradually cut down on the acting. Which in the end is good for the game.

 

[magnifier661]

Yes I agree with you......the refs suck. However knowing that they suck leaves me to believe they need help. And if replay after the game is over helps even a little, I am all for it.

I think most NBA players will have enough pride not to be known as a "flopper" and they will gradually cut down on the acting. Which in the end is good for the game.

I don't see it. There are players that pride themselves on flopping. The biggest flopping asshole has to be Vladi

 

[dviss1]

and it's not a flop?

Had the official got his ass across the key and simply not made a call then we wouldn't be even talking about this. That's my point on how officials can stop the flops and weed them out of the game entirely. It's entirely on the official to do this. The official should:

A. Get his ass in position.

B. See through the defense/offense to know who his creating contact or whether there is contact in the 1st place.

C. When the player flops. Let him deal with the results of the play. (in the Harden case above I would have simply called out of bounds and gave the ball to LA)

D. When the player/coach complains tell them to get up and quit flopping.

The officials can stop this. They simply need to do their jobs. Notice there aren't any complaints about College or High School players flopping?

That's because A-D is how it's handled at those levels. The NBA could easily do the same.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I don't see it. There are players that pride themselves on flopping. The biggest flopping asshole has to be Vladi

Yeah but being called out on it by the league will certainly make a dent in the number who do it.
Sure there will be a few, and those few will keep getting fined once they get the reputation. and those few will also start to get less and less calls.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Ahh gotcha! Thanks.

Stars get calls because they get to the line because they have a reputation for getting to the line because they get calls because they're stars.

 

[dviss1]

I don't see it. There are players that pride themselves on flopping. The biggest flopping asshole has to be Vladi

Lebron, Paul, Griffin, Wade all fucking floppers. And YES fine them for it. But that's not the ONLY thing that should be done. Refs need to be held accountable too.

 

[mook]

Maybe they should leave the players alone and fine the refs $5000/flop. Players are just reacting to ref incompetence, so give the refs a reason to be less incompetent.

 

[magnifier661]

Maybe they should leave the players alone and fine the refs $5000/flop.

That's actually a damn good idea! Maybe not a fine, but warnings. If you receive too many warnings, you will be suspended for a certain amount of games without pay. <-- better than a fine

 

[dviss1]

Ahh gotcha! Thanks.

Stars get calls because they get to the line because they have a reputation for getting to the line because they get calls because they're stars.

Well, that's a whole other type of foul but flopping does accompany "star calls" on many occasions.

 

[dviss1]

That's actually a damn good idea! Maybe not a fine, but warnings. If you receive too many warnings, you will be suspended for a certain amount of games without pay. <-- better than a fine

I don't think any fining or suspending needs to happen either.


GET THE REFS WHO ARE GONNA DO THE FUCKING JOB AND NOT BE LAZY.


It's really that simple. There are many college refs who are MUCH better than these lazy NBA guys.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm soooo glad that Batum doesn't flop anymore. I was getting annoyed when he would throw himself back like someone hit him with a car. Now he stays on his man and when you see him fall back, it means he really did get hit.

 

[blue9]

Do suspensions eventually come into play with flopping, like with Ts? If not, they should.
One-game suspension after 5 flops. Then another game for every 2 flops tallied thereafter, up to Flop 9. If a player gets to a 10th flop they get a 3-game suspension, followed by a one-game suspension for every flop thereafter. Get to 20 flops and you're suspended for an entire season.

 

[dviss1]

I'm soooo glad that Batum doesn't flop anymore. I was getting annoyed when he would throw himself back like someone hit him with a car. Now he stays on his man and when you see him fall back, it means he really did get hit.

Batum's wasn't so much a flop as it was shying away from contact. Same as LA.

 

[dviss1]

Do suspensions eventually come into play with flopping, like with Ts? If not, they should.
One-game suspension after 5 flops. Then another game for every 2 flops tallied thereafter, up to Flop 9. If a player gets to a 10th flop they get a 3-game suspension, followed by a one-game suspension for every flop thereafter. Get to 20 flops and you're suspended for an entire season.

This is simply the wrong way to go about it and completely the opposite of what this thread is supposed to shed light on. It's not the players fault. We wouldn't be talking about flops if the refs would simply do their jobs. Let's stop making it a $10K fine to say "the refs could have done a better job tonight" and hold these MFs accountable.

 

[julius]

Had the official got his ass across the key and simply not made a call then we wouldn't be even talking about this. That's my point on how officials can stop the flops and weed them out of the game entirely. It's entirely on the official to do this. The official should:

A. Get his ass in position.

B. See through the defense/offense to know who his creating contact or whether there is contact in the 1st place.

C. When the player flops. Let him deal with the results of the play. (in the Harden case above I would have simply called out of bounds and gave the ball to LA)

D. When the player/coach complains tell them to get up and quit flopping.

The officials can stop this. They simply need to do their jobs. Notice there aren't any complaints about College or High School players flopping?

That's because A-D is how it's handled at those levels. The NBA could easily do the same.

I don't think flopping fines from the NBA are dependent on a foul being called.

 

[dviss1]

I don't think flopping fines from the NBA are dependent on a foul being called.

Fair enough. But I would say that 90% of them are. So to stop the 90% that are, ref get your ass in position and stop rewarding floppers.

 

[dviss1]

Flopping rules:

It lists as follows:

Violation 1: Warning
Violation 2: $5,000 fine
Violation 3: $10,000 fine
Violation 4: $15,000 fine
Violation 5: $30,000 fine
Violation 6: Subject to discipline reasonable under the circumstances, including an increased fine and/or suspension

 

[BlazerCaravan]

This is simply the wrong way to go about it and completely the opposite of what this thread is supposed to shed light on. It's not the players fault. We wouldn't be talking about flops if the refs would simply do their jobs. Let's stop making it a $10K fine to say "the refs could have done a better job tonight" and hold these MFs accountable.

Tacit admission by the league that their employees suck at their job would pretty much unravel the authority they hold lol. Now, if the refs were their own entity and not paid directly by the league, I'd see how this would work. But I'm not sure the NBA would ever even indirectly admit their refs are lazy jackwagons who ball watch stars.

 

[blue9]

This is simply the wrong way to go about it and completely the opposite of what this thread is supposed to shed light on. It's not the players fault. We wouldn't be talking about flops if the refs would simply do their jobs. Let's stop making it a $10K fine to say "the refs could have done a better job tonight" and hold these MFs accountable.

See, I disagree. It IS the player's fault. It's also the ref's fault and the league's fault. There is no single way to address this. It can, and should, be addressed in multiple ways to completely root it out. Players who are trying to act their way to a win, rather than play their way to a win, should be severely punished. After all, they are the ones initiating the offense. The refs aren't making these guys flop, they're just rewarding them through their inability or unwillingness to do their job correctly.
I think fines and suspensions should be levied against both players and refs. Maybe $100K fines to the team for not reigning their players in?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

which is the problem. Flopping fines should be a percentage of the players salary. Those fines might be a bit unpleasant to the Victor Claver's of the world, but the LBJs of the world don't even notice that much.

Flopping rules:

It lists as follows:

Violation 1: Warning
Violation 2: $5,000 fine
Violation 3: $10,000 fine
Violation 4: $15,000 fine
Violation 5: $30,000 fine
Violation 6: Subject to discipline reasonable under the circumstances, including an increased fine and/or suspension

 

[BlazerCaravan]

See, I disagree. It IS the player's fault. It's also the ref's fault and the league's fault. There is no single way to address this. It can, and should, be addressed in multiple ways to completely root it out. Players who are trying to act their way to a win, rather than play their way to a win, should be severely punished. After all, they are the ones initiating the offense. The refs aren't making these guys flop, they're just rewarding them through their inability or unwillingness to do their job correctly.
I think fines and suspensions should be levied against both players and refs. Maybe $100K fines to the team for not reigning their players in?

I agree with this. If I were king:

Fine the player (no warnings) 5k and up, with suspension on the third violation in a season.
If there was a whistle and the ref in question was out of position when he called it, suspend him a game without pay.
Remove the points from any free throws from the player who made them, and from the team's total points. If that results in a loss, change their record to reflect.
Fine teams with more than three flopping violations in a season equal to their coach's salary for as many games as there were flopping violations.

Or...
Remove free throws. All fouls result in getting the ball back with 16 seconds on the shot clock (why they didn't up from 14 to 16 when they changed the 10 second clock to 8 I'll never know). Don't allow substitutions between foul and inbound for the fouling team, and if a player fouls out, they lose that player (4 on 5) until they get the ball back.

Okay, not really, but it's fun to think about major rules changes.

 

[dviss1]

Tacit admission by the league that their employees suck at their job would pretty much unravel the authority they hold lol. Now, if the refs were their own entity and not paid directly by the league, I'd see how this would work. But I'm not sure the NBA would ever even indirectly admit their refs are lazy jackwagons who ball watch stars.

You wouldn't have to publicize it at all. Just weed out the bad ones. The referees themselves can do it. It's really not that hard to get rid of folks and promote others. Our association does it all the time.

 

[dviss1]

I agree with this. If I were king:

Fine the player (no warnings) 5k and up, with suspension on the third violation in a season.
If there was a whistle and the ref in question was out of position when he called it, suspend him a game without pay.
Remove the points from any free throws from the player who made them, and from the team's total points. If that results in a loss, change their record to reflect.
Fine teams with more than three flopping violations in a season equal to their coach's salary for as many games as there were flopping violations.

Or...
Remove free throws. All fouls result in getting the ball back with 16 seconds on the shot clock (why they didn't up from 14 to 16 when they changed the 10 second clock to 8 I'll never know). Don't allow substitutions between foul and inbound for the fouling team, and if a player fouls out, they lose that player (4 on 5) until they get the ball back.

Okay, not really, but it's fun to think about major rules changes.

And you would advocate for all of that drastic shit (that will never have a chance of being implemented) instead of simply telling the ref to get his lazy ass across the key? Labor isn't the problem. It's management.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I dunno. Was it the official under the hoop that called it? Cuz I see two officials that should have had a good view on the play, and I just can't figure out how either would call a foul on that.

 

[dviss1]

Tacit admission by the league that their employees suck at their job would pretty much unravel the authority they hold lol. Now, if the refs were their own entity and not paid directly by the league, I'd see how this would work. But I'm not sure the NBA would ever even indirectly admit their refs are lazy jackwagons who ball watch stars.

The refs are their own entity. They are a union and inside their union they can dedicate themselves to getting rid of flopping. The league could hold them accountable for it. But no, they just want another revenue stream.