OT: Hedo Sucks at Eurobasket - Raptors Fans Regretting Their New $53 Million Man

[oldmangrouch]

I made a mistake, I haven't really been falling Eurobasket and I had a brainfart aswell.

Like I've said, all you guys are looking at, is how much he is making. He can play, players have bad games, bad stretches. Shit, it's Eurobasket, I don't care if he didn't even play. All I care about is how he preforms in a Raps uniform and I'll get to see that in November. So till than, I'll hold my criticism of how much we spent for him based on how he plays.

Fair enough. My caveat, is that the first year (playing alongside Bosh) could be a success...and the deal could still come back to bite Toronto in the butt if Bosh doesn't re-sign. Without Bosh, Hedo becomes the flashy wheel-covers on a car with no engine!

Edit: oops, BNM beat me to it!

 

[Master Shake]

Actually, I agree we should wait. But a lot longer than 20 - 25 games. I'm sure Hedo will be able to be a valuable contributor for at least that long. Where I'd be concerned is 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years from now when Bosh has left, the Raps are in the lottery and Hedo is sucking up $10 - $11 - $12 milliuon in cap space. That's when I'd seriously question this signing - not 20 - 25 games into the first season of his 5 year $53 million deal. A great honeymoon doesn't guarantee a great marriage.

BNM

I agree, but I don't think Bosh will leave any time soon. I'm hoping the team can do well enough where he will want to stay. But hey, who knows. So, as you've said, 2-3 years on to the contract and we'll see if BC is a genius or if he owes me 3 years of my life back ahah.

 

[Boob-No-More]

For clarification purposes, did you feel that he would be a good fit for Portland?

I thought he'd be a better signing for Portland than for Toronto. Why?

Because the young 54-win Blazers are closer to being title contenders than the 33-win Raptors.

Because the Blazers aren't likely to lose their best player next summer and then end up in the lottery for the last 4 years of Hedo's 5-year contract.

Because Hedo did a great job running the side pick-and-roll with Dwight Howard in Orlando and could have done similar with Oden in Portland. Toronto's center is not a low post threat and would rather camp out at the 3-point line than down on the blocks. So, rather than give Toronto a solid inside-outside game, the Hedo-Bargnani combo is redundant.

So, yes, he would have been a better fit in Portland than Toronto, and even then I thought five years was too much. You'd basically be grossly overpaying him in the last 2 years of his contract for the production you'd hope he provides during the first 3.

BNM

 

[Draco]

I will be shocked if Bosh leaves next offseason no matter how many games the Raps win this coming year. Toronto can offer him the most money, and especially with the declining cap it could be a significant difference. Players do enjoy being on better teams and winning, but they mostly enjoy big fat paychecks. When your talking about an extra 6th year at $20+ million along with a couple additional million each year for the first 5 years, I can't see him turning that down.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I fully expect Toronto to be a playoff team this year. Hedo may not be "THE answer" (trademark) but he certainly gives them a creative playmaker from the wing who can take it inside and out, and can find guys off of the side pick-and-roll, and for the next couple of years he'll probably be just what they're looking for and will probably make Bargnani look like the next Rashard Lewis (for better or worse).

Having said all that, I don't envy the Raps when he hits 33+ and still has 3 years left on his deal and probably doesn't have the athleticism to warrant his paycheck.

Whatever; he's Toronto's problem, not the Blazers problem ... not my problem and probably shouldn't be your problem (BasX and Megatron excluded of course).

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Dawg, who gives a fuck about last year. We had a losing year, so what? You can't deny the fact that Hedo brings something to the Raptors and he does give us a boost. DaRozen is 19 and is gonna be a spectacular player. We have a solid team, maybe not an NBA championship caliber one, (fingers crossed) but we're good and we can win any night.

I say, we do something Blazer fans have never done before in the history of s2...wait. When the season is 20-25 games in, than we'll see what Hedo has done for us.

Yes. I give a fuck about last year. You listed 3 of 4 guys you had last year, plus a rookie, who just finished his freshman year. And you think that list will impress me? Please, even in a weak East, you ain't shit. You may very well make the playoffs, but you're not playing more than 89 games next season.

Something we ain't seen in the history of s2? This is a relatively new forum, that could be a lot of things? 82-0? No. 0-82? Not likely either. Dunno what else that means. Regardless, I'm glad you got Turk. Didn't want him here, that's honest-to-God.

 

[julius]

Fuck, sorry for the megafail. Feel free to point and laugh.

And I regret nothing. I have faith in my team. Like all of you have faith in Oden, when you could of taken a very healthy Durant who is averaging 25 per game. So, while the price is steep, I feel he can deliver and when the season starts, everyone will see.

Durant's 25 points a game is about what Oklahoma has averaged in win totals with him on the roster.

 

[Master Shake]

Yes. I give a fuck about last year. You listed 3 of 4 guys you had last year, plus a rookie, who just finished his freshman year. And you think that list will impress me? Please, even in a weak East, you ain't shit. You may very well make the playoffs, but you're not playing more than 89 games next season.

Something we ain't seen in the history of s2? This is a relatively new forum, that could be a lot of things? 82-0? No. 0-82? Not likely either. Dunno what else that means. Regardless, I'm glad you got Turk. Didn't want him here, that's honest-to-God.

Lol, I'll hold you to those 89 games. Cause as soon as we hit 90, get ready.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Lol, I'll hold you to those 89 games. Cause as soon as we hit 90, get ready.

Good for you. I guess I should have clarified the number doesn't include preseason. The East is weak, I expect Toronto to make the playoffs, but that's where it ends. First round and out.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I expect Toronto to make the playoffs, but that's where it ends. First round and out.

They have enough offensive talent to make the play-offs in the East, but teams that can't rebound and don't play defense don't do well in the post season. Their roster is built to fail in the post season.

But hey, they will be a high scoring team in the regular season and win 10 or 12 more games than they did last season. So, I guess that's something to get excited about if you're a Raptors fan.

BNM

 

[Chutney]

I like how the thread title says that Raptors fans are regretting this deal, when it doesn't appear anywhere in the article. It's almost like you made it up.

Hedo's performance in Eurobasket means nothing, really. He's 30 years old and a finished product. We know what he's going to bring to this team already. It makes much more sense to project from his most recent NBA season, rather than Eurobasket.

 

[speeds]

Fans didn't sign Hedo. They didn't even ask for it.

 

[Nikolokolus]

They have enough offensive talent to make the play-offs in the East, but teams that can't rebound and don't play defense don't do well in the post season. Their roster is built to fail in the post season.

But hey, they will be a high scoring team in the regular season and win 10 or 12 more games than they did last season. So, I guess that's something to get excited about if you're a Raptors fan.

BNM

All things considered their starting five looks like it can probably shoot and score at a decent clip, defensively they look like a sieve and aside from Bosh, nobody on that roster looks primed to be much of a rebounder. On the second unit I think Jack will be steady as a combo guard, I'm not a DeRozan guy at all, Amir Johnson is nice, Evans isn't terrible and everybody else is forgettable. All-in-all they look like a 40 win team and a sixth seed in the East meaning they'll probably have to face the Magic, Celtics or Cavs and a likely first round exit.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I like how the thread title says that Raptors fans are regretting this deal, when it doesn't appear anywhere in the article. It's almost like you made it up.

Well, almost, but not quite.

From the article:

"The 6-foot-10 forward, whom the Raptors acquired in a four-team deal on July 9, was less than stellar at the recently competed EuroBasket 2009 tournament in Poland -- at least statistically speaking -- which has prompted speculation, and much hand-wringing amongst Raptors fans..."

From the thread titled What's Wrong with Hedo? in the S2 Raptors forum:

"the more i think about this signing, the more i fret"

And from the thread titled Turk is tired... needs some rest in pre-season on the RealGM Raptors forum:

"Here we go...

I love the part where BC says 'stats don't matter in international ball' and that Hedo 'effectively deferred' to others. Spin, baby, spin.

the excuse train is now boarding passengers and getting ready to leave the station. Reserve your seats now.

I like some of the things Hedo brings but already we are hearing about a potential knee problem and him being worn out just as the season is about to start. And there seemed to be a lot of those 1/12 and 4/16 shooting nights in the playoffs that had me wondering just how bad we wanted this guy. He covered some of that up by making late shots but most of his regular season game winning shot attempts were step back J's from 20.

I hope he shines here, but I am very nervous about him."

"And with next season's world championships in Turkey, you know he's going to play there. And then there will be the Olympics, so if they qualify, you know he'll be playing there too. When you add it all up, playing super extended NBA season last year, Euro basket, this Season, which hopefully has a playoff run, World Championships, another Season, then Olympics. Hedo may be 33-34 before he gets an extended break from basketball. It's enough to warrant concern for sure."

"Well, at least we don't have this guy under contract until his mid 30s or anything like that."

"I just checked his overall FG% at Eurobasket2009, and it's not encouraging to see 33% against some of the worst defenses. I'm not going to judge yet, but hopefully those $53 won't bite us in the..."

"Turk was a bigger waste of money than joses stupid contract why does bc sign these washed up euros to 5 year contracts when there like 30"

"AL-Farouq Aminu here we come, boys I have a bad feeling"

"I've already stated I think he's going to be a disappointment for us, like Vernon Wells disappointing. Glimpses of great play but overall lacking.

"He's had a 42% or less fg% for 7 of his 9 seasons, his career fg% is 0.428. Most of his career he's played in some great systems (specifically Sacramento Kings high with high post offense & cuts and Orlando's spread offense). The Raptors I see as more of a PnR, spot up type offense (Hopefully Triano can tweak this with more off the ball movement, screens, & cuts). In regards to expectations & actual results I just think this guy is going to be at the top of the list in disappointing season.""I am really not liking this Turk signing.

The guy has shot less then 43% in 7 of 9 seasons.

He has a poor shot selection.

At first I thought this would be a good signing for the Raps, but now I think we made a crippling mistake look at the stats:...

He has Iverson type shots. I really think that the Raps will regret siging this guy.(I hope I am wrong

Also his passing is overrated."

"I usually don't play devils advocate to BC's moves but I am with you on this one.

We just signed this old f*ck to a 5yr, $50M+ contract. Any athlete who gets that sort of money should not be following up his signing by stumbling into training camp worn out. If you don't see this as a bad sign, you are delusional."

"I wish we would have retained Marion since he is only making somewhere around 7m/yr compared to turk at 10m/yr. Marion is also the better fit for a team lacking rebounding, athleticism and defense."

"Hey,Raptors fans,can I ask you a favor?
Would you guys “campaign” against Hedo playing for the Turkish national team?
Would you not let him come over here to Turkey for the next year’s world championship or any international event for that matter?
We all thought that he would be kinda like Nowitzki helping his German team mates you know,but no,he was just awful,total disaster.He and his antics were cringeworthy during Eurobasket 2009.I dont know maybe he wasnt meant to play for the national team."

So yeah, it looks like more than one Raptors fan is questioning/regretting giving Hedo $53 million over the next five years.

BNM

 

[BrianFromWA]

I like this response. Good use of an amazing amount of "proof". Repped.

 

[BrianFromWA]

All things considered their starting five looks like it can probably shoot and score at a decent clip, defensively they look like a sieve and aside from Bosh, nobody on that roster looks primed to be much of a rebounder. On the second unit I think Jack will be steady as a combo guard, I'm not a DeRozan guy at all, Amir Johnson is nice, Evans isn't terrible and everybody else is forgettable. All-in-all they look like a 40 win team and a sixth seed in the East meaning they'll probably have to face the Magic, Celtics or Cavs and a likely first round exit.

While I'm nowhere close to the biggest Raptor insider, I was under the impression that Jack (or DeRozan, if he can take the job) will be the starter at the 2. I didn't know Bellinelli was in the running for the starting job. Is that legit?

 

[Chutney]

So yeah, it looks like more than one Raptors fan is questioning/regretting giving Hedo $53 million over the next five years.

Combining those two with a slash doesn't make them the same thing. This signing has been questioned and debated about by Raptors fans and everyone else since Day 1. Regret, though? There are Raptors fans who regretted it right away, but those who took a "wait-and-see" approach haven't suddenly changed stances because of his performance at Eurobasket. I think the fact that you had to sift through RealGM to find examples of dramatic changes in opinion speaks volumes.

I question/regret the point of this thread.

 

[Nikolokolus]

While I'm nowhere close to the biggest Raptor insider, I was under the impression that Jack (or DeRozan, if he can take the job) will be the starter at the 2. I didn't know Bellinelli was in the running for the starting job. Is that legit?

I doubt Jack will start at the 2 spot since he's undersized as a front line shooting guard. Bellinelli on the other hand has length and can shoot it some and they'll probably try to work DeRozan into the backup 2 spot with an eye on making him the long term starter (assuming he pans out). Jarret will probably spell Calderon and then play off the ball if Hedo is on the floor.

All in all I think they'll probably have an 8 man rotation with Jack, DeRozan and Johnson getting the lion's share of the reserve minutes. Reggie Evans will probably pick up spot minutes when Bosh is getting a blow or if Johnson is unavailable.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Combining those two with a slash doesn't make them the same thing. This signing has been questioned and debated about by Raptors fans and everyone else since Day 1. Regret, though? There are Raptors fans who regretted it right away, but those who took a "wait-and-see" approach haven't suddenly changed stances because of his performance at Eurobasket. I think the fact that you had to sift through RealGM to find examples of dramatic changes in opinions speaks volumes.

I question/regret the point of this thread.

You can try to spin the quotes from your fellow Raptors fans anyway you like, but did you not even read the very first quote - from the Raptors forum right here on S2:

"the more i think about this signing, the more i fret"

Sounds an awful lot like someone is regretting the decision based on this article and Hedo's performance at Eurobasket.

But hey, whatever. The proof will be in the pudding. And even if Raptors fans don't universally regret this signing now, I suspect most will eventually. Whether it's when they can't make it past the first round this season, whether it's after they lose Bosh next summer and return to the lottery, or whether it's paying a 33, 34, 35 year old Hedo $10, $11 and $12 million over the last three years of this contract, there will come a time when most Raptors fans will feel at least a twinge of regret over this signing. Don't let that rain on your parade. Enjoy this season. It's the best one you'll get from Hedo.

BNM

 

[The_Lillard_King]

So BC is an idiot and will regret signing Hedo to such a long and expensive contract . . . but in KP we trust eventhough he offered a simialr deal for Hedo . . .

 

[Nikolokolus]

So BC is an idiot and will regret signing Hedo to such a long and expensive contract . . . but in KP we trust eventhough he offered a simialr deal for Hedo . . .

Don't question the "logic" ... in KP we trust.

 

[mook]

Call me crazy, but I bet sometime down the road we somehow wind up with Turkoglu in a trade where his bad contract is coupled with something of value. One or two years down the road when it's undeniable that the Raptors are winning no more than 42 or so games and it's time to blow the whole thing up. By then he could still be a nice backup for Batum.

 

[Chutney]

You can try to spin the quotes from your fellow Raptors fans anyway you like, but did you not even read the very first quote - from the Raptors forum right here on S2:

"the more i think about this signing, the more i fret"

Sounds an awful lot like someone is regretting the decision based on this article and Hedo's performance at Eurobasket.

But hey, whatever. The proof will be in the pudding. And even if Raptors fans don't universally regret this signing now, I suspect most will eventually. Whether it's when they can't make it past the first round this season, whether it's after they lose Bosh next summer and return to the lottery, or whether it's paying a 33, 34, 35 year old Hedo $10, $11 and $12 million over the last three years of this contract, there will come a time when most Raptors fans will feel at least a twinge of regret over this signing. Don't let that rain on your parade. Enjoy this season. It's the best one you'll get from Hedo.

BNM

You fret something when you're afraid it won't live up to your expectations. Regret kicks in when you've officially given up on those expectations. Most Raptors fans hold the exact same stance on the Hedo deal that they did a month ago. Hedo's Eurobasket performance has changed virtually nothing (it's added the worry that he'll be worn out this season, that's about it).

The proof will ultimately be in the pudding. You'll find no argument there. "Wait-and-see" approaches are based upon that assumption.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Call me crazy, but I bet sometime down the road we somehow wind up with Turkoglu in a trade where his bad contract is coupled with something of value. One or two years down the road when it's undeniable that the Raptors are winning no more than 42 or so games and it's time to blow the whole thing up. By then he could still be a nice backup for Batum.

OK, I'll bite. You're crazy.

 

[Boob-No-More]

So BC is an idiot and will regret signing Hedo to such a long and expensive contract . . . but in KP we trust eventhough he offered a simialr deal for Hedo . . .

Nice strawman.

Did you not read the post where I explained why Hedo in Portland made more sense than Hedo in Toronto?

Basically, Portland, which won 54 games in the West last season, is MUCH closer to contending than Toronto, which won 33 games in the East last year. So, adding one piece like Hedo could instantly push the Blazers into serious title contention. Adding him to the Raptors doesn't come close to making them serious contenders this year, or any year after. If they fail to make the play-offs, or lose in the 1st round, they could lose their best player and be in the lottery for years to come - all while having a huge chunk of their cap space tied up in an over the hill Hedo - thus hampering any rebuilding effort. With a younger, more talented roster, Portland won't be in the lottery anytime soon. So, Hedo can go from starter to back-up as he declines, and Batum improves - all the while with the Blazers remaining viable title contenders.

Different team, different situations.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

You fret something when you're afraid it won't live up to your expectations. Regret kicks in when you've officially given up on those expectations. Most Raptors fans hold the exact same stance on the Hedo deal that they did a month ago. Hedo's Eurobasket performance has changed virtually nothing (it's added the worry that he'll be worn out this season, that's about it).

Again, you are spinning what was written by your fellow Raptors fans:

"At first I thought this would be a good signing for the Raps, but now I think we made a crippling mistake"

"He has Iverson type shots. I really think that the Raps will regret siging this guy."

"We just signed this old f*ck to a 5yr, $50M+ contract. Any athlete who gets that sort of money should not be following up his signing by stumbling into training camp worn out. If you don't see this as a bad sign, you are delusional."

BNM

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Again, you are spinning what was written by your fellow Raptors fans:

"At first I thought this would be a good signing for the Raps, but now I think we made a crippling mistake"

"He has Iverson type shots. I really think that the Raps will regret siging this guy."

"We just signed this old f*ck to a 5yr, $50M+ contract. Any athlete who gets that sort of money should not be following up his signing by stumbling into training camp worn out. If you don't see this as a bad sign, you are delusional."

BNM

For the record, I found a pic of a couple of those Raptor's posters you quoted...

 

[barfo]

Call me crazy, but I bet sometime down the road we somehow wind up with Turkoglu in a trade where his bad contract is coupled with something of value. One or two years down the road when it's undeniable that the Raptors are winning no more than 42 or so games and it's time to blow the whole thing up. By then he could still be a nice backup for Batum.

So you are saying Turkoglu is to KP as Kemp is to Whitsitt?

barfo

 

[Chutney]

Again, you are spinning what was written by your fellow Raptors fans:

"At first I thought this would be a good signing for the Raps, but now I think we made a crippling mistake"

"He has Iverson type shots. I really think that the Raps will regret siging this guy."

"We just signed this old f*ck to a 5yr, $50M+ contract. Any athlete who gets that sort of money should not be following up his signing by stumbling into training camp worn out. If you don't see this as a bad sign, you are delusional."

BNM

I chose to ignore the RealGM posts for obvious reasons. But even among those ones, I counted only a couple where the poster had the dramatic change of heart that you're trying to paint the whole fanbase with. After all, there've been lots of Raptors fans who have been pessimistic about the signing all along.

This change you keep trying to point out simply doesn't exist. The fans who hated the signing still hate it. The fans who loved it still love it. The fans who are unsure are still unsure. And the fans who seem to swing to either extreme on a weekly basis (the RealGMians) are doing the still swinging. The only thing Turkoglu's Eurobasket performance has done is make fatigue a topic of conversation.

 

[Natebishop3]

So BC is an idiot and will regret signing Hedo to such a long and expensive contract . . . but in KP we trust eventhough he offered a simialr deal for Hedo . . .

For the Blazers it made sense. What's another 50 million on Hedo when we already have a maxed out Brandon Roy, an extension forthcoming with LMA, and the looming extensions for Oden, Rudy, and Batum. Not to mention we have to decide if we want to keep TO, Blake, and Joel.

I was also of the mind that Hedo would have been a decent fit here. He could feed the post. He could hit the three. He could create. I wasn't as against the signing as some. I'm still psyched to have Miller, mostly because I think a pass-first point guard (who can score), will be a big step in the right direction for this team.