OT: Is the Gobert trade the worst ever?

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The thing about some of the old trades in history, especially the old Yankee and Celtic trades.......teams were essentially forced to make them because they needed the money to either stay afloat or simply could not afford to keep their best players. Dynasties were built because of it.
 
It's nowhere close to the worst trade ever but it was fucking stupid the day it was announced and it looks just as stupid if not worse today. The redeeming thing about this trade is that if the Wolves have the sense to cash in KAT for what they could get for him, they can still have a roster that makes sense. It won't likely be a contender but it could make the playoffs.

The big problem I have is that I didn't think that Gobert was necessarily worth Kessler, Vanderbilt, Beasley and PatBev... even though those guys are all role players, newsflash: so is Gobert. I get it that he's dominant in the paint on the defensive end of the court but that's just it he's only a defensive specialist. Dude has never had a season where he broke the threshold of 16ppg, the guy's career high is 2.0apg. He is a screen setter and cleanup guy on offense who can't defend the perimeter on defense. So I have a hard time thinking that he was worth Kessler, Vanderbilt, Beasley and PatBev and then there are those FRPs: 2023 unprotected, 2025 unprotected, 2027 unprotected, 2029 top 4 protection.

It's a clusterfuck for sure just not close to the worst we've seen.
 
Why are people responding with more than one word?

"No".

That's it.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Minnesota actually has had some of their best games when neither Towns or Gobert play. Naz Reid is really a good player when he gets the minutes to show it and they don't have to worry about involving him in the offense. I think both Russell and Edwards play best when they can just be themselves and not worry about Towns. I think they need to trade Towns. If they could somehow get Siakam, maybe involving a third team, depending on what Toronto wants to do in the future, which I think Toronto doesn't even know yet....
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Good centers compared to guys barely in the NBA just make very little difference to a team winning in 2022. It's the most irrelevant position. Think of them as a kicker or punter in the NFL

Not saying they don't have a very unique attribute compared to the general public. But there's way more than 50 of these guys on the planet aged 20-30 that can perform at a relatively similar level.

Compared that to Dame, Curry, LeBron, Giannis, etc. There's never enough of these guys to fill out NBA rosters.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
This is a misrepresentation. It was a bad trade to begin with, but now people are just piling on. I forget where I saw it, but when Gobert is on the court the Wolves have a top-10 defense, and when he's off, they're among the league worst, so that's not the issue. It's funny that people have REALLY started to unload since KAT went out, when the Wolves have been about the same. Why dump on Gobert when KAT makes no difference to your record?

Yes, it was an unbalanced trade - the league should prevent a team giving up that many first rounders. But if the Wolves could get a couple of really solid 3-and-D guys for KAT (plus a couple of first rounders back), they'd be back in business. People also forget that "the real" Ant came in very out of shape, and is learning how to play with Gobert. (To his credit, he's become a much better passer this season.) The Wolves are a cursed franchise, sure, but "worst trade ever" is ridiculous hyperbole.

(I should note that I was always a firm believer that Gobert was the one behind the Jazz's good record and Mitchell got all the credit. I am definitely re-evaluating that view! Gobert is kind of a dinosaur in today's NBA, certainly with THAT contract. Maybe if Nurk gave him three point shooting lessons?)
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NBA should get rid of all the Stephen rule restrictions about keeping consecutive picks, but limit teams to trading 4 years out instead of 7. 7 years from now it'll be different coach, GM, star player, maybe different owner... So it's only the fans that get screwed that far out.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Good centers compared to guys barely in the NBA just make very little difference to a team winning in 2022. It's the most irrelevant position. Think of them as a kicker or punter in the NFL

Not saying they don't have a very unique attribute compared to the general public. But there's way more than 50 of these guys on the planet aged 20-30 that can perform at a relatively similar level.

Compared that to Dame, Curry, LeBron, Giannis, etc. There's never enough of these guys to fill out NBA rosters.
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What?
First off without a good Center you ain’t winning.
Second, without a good kicker you ain’t winning either.
Worst post of yours I read in a long time.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
What?
First off without a good Center you ain’t winning.
Second, without a good kicker you ain’t winning either.
Worst post of yours I read in a long time.
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looking at the last 15 NBA champions:

upload_2022-12-28_21-16-54.png

the Lakers had Gasol. Spurs had Duncan but he was close to aged out that year only averaging 16 & 9 in the playoffs; Kawhi was MVP. The Raptors had an aged-out Gasol who average 9 & 6 in the playoffs. The Lakers had AD but he played PF while Howard & McGee played C. Buck had Lopez who was a 4th option.

I just don't see C's as being a key anymore. It's true you need competence, but you don't need excellence. More than that though is you don't need to pay much for the C position. Warriors won last season with Looney and Bjelinca combining for 7M. Bucks won with Lopez making 12.6M. Cleveland won with Tristan Thompson making 14M
 
I thought the Clyde for Otis Thorpe trade was awful. It’s like we were doing Clyde a favor. I feel we could have got a lot more.

There’s been so many bad trades in the NBA if you think back.
 
wizenheimer said:
looking at the last 15 NBA champions:

View attachment 52455

the Lakers had Gasol. Spurs had Duncan but he was close to aged out that year only averaging 16 & 9 in the playoffs; Kawhi was MVP. The Raptors had an aged-out Gasol who average 9 & 6 in the playoffs. The Lakers had AD but he played PF while Howard & McGee played C. Buck had Lopez who was a 4th option.

I just don't see C's as being a key anymore. It's true you need competence, but you don't need excellence. More than that though is you don't need to pay much for the C position. Warriors won last season with Looney and Bjelinca combining for 7M. Bucks won with Lopez making 12.6M. Cleveland won with Tristan Thompson making 14M
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Give it a rest. That was absolutely an idiotic post.
The center position played by a 7 footer or a guy 6-9 anchors your defense. It’s absolutely the most important position on the court. Always has been and always will be.
Now let’s talk about Kickers. Tell me exactly how many games this year both pro and college have been won by the fucking kicker?
Next go look up who holds the records for scoring in the NFL? It’s all fucking KICKERS!
Get that shit outta here!

Just admit that was a terrible take and move on.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
The center position played by a 7 footer or a guy 6-9 anchors your defense. It’s absolutely the most important position on the court. Always has been and always will be.
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This does not read like a post from someone interested in listening to others' opinions and/or having a legitimate conversation.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
This does not read like a post from someone interested in listening to others' opinions and/or having a legitimate conversation.
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Probably not. If you read the post that I was originally responding to about Centers not being an important position and comparing it to kickers in football you would understand.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Give it a rest. That was absolutely an idiotic post.
The center position played by a 7 footer or a guy 6-9 anchors your defense. It’s absolutely the most important position on the court. Always has been and always will be.
Now let’s talk about Kickers. Tell me exactly how many games this year both pro and college have been won by the fucking kicker?
Next go look up who holds the records for scoring in the NFL? It’s all fucking KICKERS!
Get that shit outta here!

Just admit that was a terrible take and move on.
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talk about idiotic....I didn't mention one fucking thing about kickers...that was you guys and I wasn't participating in that at all.

what I did say was that C's not a key position and should be paid like it; for certain they shouldn't be paid like Gobert, unless they are Jokic or Embiid. I'll expand by saying like all positions, C is morphing into something more varied than traditional C's
 
wizenheimer said:
talk about idiotic....I didn't mention one fucking thing about kickers...that was you guys and I wasn't participating in that at all.

what I did say was that C's not a key position and should be paid like it; for certain they shouldn't be paid like Gobert, unless they are Jokic or Embiid. I'll expand by saying like all positions, C is morphing into something more varied than traditional C's
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Sorry man. Got you confused with the other post.
My bad. I’ll look at the poster better next time.
 
blazerkor said:
It's nowhere close to the worst trade ever but it was fucking stupid the day it was announced and it looks just as stupid if not worse today. The redeeming thing about this trade is that if the Wolves have the sense to cash in KAT for what they could get for him, they can still have a roster that makes sense. It won't likely be a contender but it could make the playoffs.

The big problem I have is that I didn't think that Gobert was necessarily worth Kessler, Vanderbilt, Beasley and PatBev... even though those guys are all role players, newsflash: so is Gobert. I get it that he's dominant in the paint on the defensive end of the court but that's just it he's only a defensive specialist. Dude has never had a season where he broke the threshold of 16ppg, the guy's career high is 2.0apg. He is a screen setter and cleanup guy on offense who can't defend the perimeter on defense. So I have a hard time thinking that he was worth Kessler, Vanderbilt, Beasley and PatBev and then there are those FRPs: 2023 unprotected, 2025 unprotected, 2027 unprotected, 2029 top 4 protection.

It's a clusterfuck for sure just not close to the worst we've seen.
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Nowhere close? Think of how many potential all stars they may get with the picks plus all the players they got! Meanwhile, Minnesota got worse and they owe him $170 million. What trade is worse than that?
 
Strenuus said:
Why are people responding with more than one word?

"No".

That's it.
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Wait til you see what Utah gets with the picks. Nets traded us 1 pick for Gerald Wallace and we got Dame. Now imagine them trading us FIVE picks! No one has convinced me there has been a worse trade.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Sorry man. Got you confused with the other post.
My bad. I’ll look at the poster better next time.
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I was wondering about that because you usually don't come out so hot in a post, at least not toward me, even when I do make an idiot post
 
Fairly-Hard said:
What?
First off without a good Center you ain’t winning.
Second, without a good kicker you ain’t winning either.
Worst post of yours I read in a long time.
Click to expand...
Last two champs had role playing centers making less than the MLE. There's "good" enough centers to win a title available to every team in the league, just like a kicker or punter in the NFL. Center is an irrelevant NBA position in 2022.

Who was the last team to win a title with a center as the best player? Statistically as it's one of five positions it should be one out of five years. The last was probably Shaq, although maybe some even argue on his teams it was actually Kobe/Wade making the big title winning shots.

So Hakeem in 1995 was the last team a center dominantly led his team to a title, almost 30 years ago.
 
When I said "irrelevant" position I meant in terms of allocating scarce team resources to fulfil it. NBA teams need to have competent coaches, 9th men, practice facility, etc to win. But all 30 teams can get those needs met without sacrificing huge amounts of the salary cap or draft picks as in the Gobert trade. Similar to how all NFL teams can get a good kicker, there's more than 32 of them on the planet.

Teams can't all have great wings or dominant offensive guards, or in the NFL elite quarterbacks. There aren't enough of them. So those are more important positions to allocate limited resources to in building a contending team.

Paying massive salary for a center as well as draft picks is stupid in 2022 (and 2023....) Minnesota is in a terrible position because of that decision. I'd argue the Blazers are in a worse position similarly from the Nurk contract, although obviously to a much lesser extent as the cost was much less.
 
So have we moved on from thinking that the Powell and RoCo trade to the Clippers was the worst trade ever?
 
WesleyMatthews said:
just like a kicker or punter in the NFL. Center is an irrelevant NBA position in 2022.
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This is where you lose all credibility in my opinion. Again If you think the Warriors don't win last year without Loony and Green (Who plays center quite a bit) and Wiseman you are dead wrong.
Your idea that the money they make correlates directly to their value is laughable.
You do realize Giannis plays center quite a bit right? There are pages on the (Nurk shooting threes) Idea about what Lopez brought coupled with his defense not to mention Bobby Portis.
Do you not watch what happens to the Blazers when Nurk is out of the game? I love Drew and his effort but he ain't Nurk.
Have you ever heard "It takes Big men longer to get the game to slow down"? That is because they are being asked to do things all the other positions don't have to do. Things that don't show up in the stat sheet.

I will say this once again. Find any team on the NFL or College that has not won a game this year because of their kicker. Now you try to add "Punter" to the mix? That right there tells me you have never played the game at any level above High School if that. You obviously have no idea.

The Comparison is not only wrong it's flat out ridiculous.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
In unrelated news:



I like the idea of Team Divorce...
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I jump on a Bandwagon pretty much every year after the Blazers are out. I usually choose a team I'm pulling for. This year if the Blazers get knocked out I'm probably going to pull for Jokic to get a ring before Luka.
You don't have to divorce your team to be a fan of the game.
 
Maybe.
Because Minny is not a FA draw (similar to Portland), this trade will cripple the Wolves for a decade.

Yes, some other trades involving HOFers for jank are tough to take, but most of those didn't impedes a team's to progress in the future.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
In unrelated news:



I like the idea of Team Divorce...
Click to expand...

Never understood the concept that you could have a lifelong favorite team and NOT enjoy watching and rooting for other teams. As a kid growing up, they always had the Celtics/Sixers/Bucks/ and other teams on CBS every weekend. That was probably the reason my 2nd favorite team growing up was Philly. Also loved the Run TMC teams in The Bay.
 
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