OT: Jesse Jackson calls Dan Gilbert 'slave owner'

[STOMP]

Jesse Jackson...just wow. What a fucking idiot. LeBron was going to be paid more then 99% of white people ON THE PLANET. Yet a slave comparison comes out? When Gilbert was actually going to pay LeBron MORE money then anyone else? Jesse Jackson is eroding the credibility of reasonable anti-racist activism with this kind of stupidity.

in salary... of course where athletes can really hit another level is in endorsements. LJ's image seems to have taken at least a temporary hit, but there is no question that the Miami market is significantly bigger and more lucrative then Cleveland's. I also think that going forward the Heat stand a much better chance of winning (championships and in general) then the Cavs did... winning championships generally helps raise an athlete's marketability. I bet this coming year will illuminate how mediocre a cast was in place there

While unquestionably LJ's camp made some missteps this offseason, I think it's still very possible for this to evolve into a very positive business move.

oh and Gilbert and Jesse are tools

STOMP

 

[Idog1976]

in salary... of course where athletes can really hit another level is in endorsements. LJ's image seems to have taken at least a temporary hit, but there is no question that the Miami market is significantly bigger and more lucrative then Cleveland's. I also think that going forward the Heat stand a much better chance of winning championships then the Cavs did... winning championships generally helps raise an athlete's marketability

While unquestionably LJ's camp made some missteps this offseason, I think it's still very possible for this to evolve into a very positive business move.

oh and Gilbert and Jesse are tools

STOMP

Fair enough, I was more commenting on the absurdity of comparing LeBron being offered a max contract and all that entails (Cars, ladies, houses, travel, fun of all kinds) with that of someone living under chattel slavery. It's just fucking sick. People have lost their minds in this country over the past 10 years and the kind of slander that goes on as routine makes me ill.

 

[Idog1976]

Fair enough, I was more commenting on the absurdity of comparing LeBron being offered a max contract and all that entails (Cars, ladies, houses, travel, fun of all kinds) with that of someone living under chattel slavery. It's just fucking sick. People have lost their minds in this country over the past 10 years and the kind of slander that goes on as routine makes me ill.

One of these things is NOT like the other:

Versus

Slavery in America was very real and the devastation of it continues to this day. However, to compare those two men is just very, VERY wrong and undermines the very real fight against racism and the historical legacy of slavery.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He talked of LeBron as if he owned him. The Magic showed class when Shaq left.

Hmmm......could that be because Shaq showed class and didn't go on national TV to crap all over the Orlando fans? Just a thought.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

'Hymie town'

[video=youtube;bNz5XnvZHhk]

Jesse Jackson has no credibility and quite the hypocrite. Does he still have a grudge against the Jews?

A-fucking-men. Tired of his BS. Playing the race card here, when it's convenient. Ignoring it there, because it's convenient.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Even in 2010, there is still racism. Man, some of you are so bitter that you were born white.

Yes, and it goes all sorts of ways. Jesse Jackson is quite racist, IMO, towards whites and other races.

 

[STOMP]

Fair enough, I was more commenting on the absurdity of comparing LeBron being offered a max contract and all that entails (Cars, ladies, houses, travel, fun of all kinds) with that of someone living under chattel slavery. It's just fucking sick. People have lost their minds in this country over the past 10 years and the kind of slander that goes on as routine makes me ill.

Jesse lost his mind more then 10 years ago. I don't see why an established crazy person who always cries racism is even news when he does it again... does anyone here really give a shit about what JJ says about anything?

Gilbert is new to this, but I thought he was just idiotic in his recent headline grabbing statement.

STOMP

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

It crossed a line. Was more than just negative.

How so? Is this more of your spew? Back it up (i.e. like backing up your "I told ya'll Yi would be an all-star").

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

He talked of LeBron as if he owned him. The Magic showed class when Shaq left.

Yes, and the way Shaq went about his business when he left was of no disrespect to the Magic. A wee bit different.

 

[The Sebastian Express]

The poor White man burden

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I laugh at all of this. I mean, I was watching TV recently, and some young, white, popular actress was complaining about the papz. She likened their invasion into her personal space to rape, and she was being blasted for it.

Yet, some blacks can throw out slavery at every possible whim, and yet it's those the term is being thrown AT, not those throwing it, WHO GET BLASTED. Fuck that shit.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

One of these things is NOT like the other:

Versus

Slavery in America was very real and the devastation of it continues to this day. However, to compare those two men is just very, VERY wrong and undermines the very real fight against racism and the historical legacy of slavery.

One of these things is not like the other? Uh, duh........ That car is dead sexy!

 

[jlprk]

Dude, while you were making money on T.V. I was WORKING with poor people of color helping them become self sufficient and working hard to make sure that any discrimination in their work place was dealt with appropriately. I also helped white people who had lost everything. I was in the trenches helping people of color. Don't make broad sweeping statements like that about people on this forum. The racism card

What was your job? Were you in the legal or welfare systems forcing blacks to obey a European ethical system against their heritage? Your choice of racist anecdotes ("race card," and people forced into prostitution more than once?..I don't know how that could be physically done without keeping someone in a cell..can you enlighten us) belies your orbit around putting people into jail. You don't sound liberating. You sound like a government employee, always on the lookout for things to report so you can ruin people's lives. Instead of making people restructure their lives, a person truly helping blacks would help the oppressed fight the dominant structure, instead of aligning himself with it.

And with that, I will add that Jesse Jackson should have shut up. Martin Luther King would have spent 99% of his time talking about poor people. But he might have barely mentioned the general trade system in pro sports, and done so years ago. He would have included the NCAA system of so-called amateurs. He would have included what Sonic fans called the broken model of cities getting teams only if the taxpayers subsidized the stadium and team, taking away money from the needy. King would have addressed the big picture instead of reacting to one speech. I'm not interested in defending fakes, whether black ones whose goal is to create a black class system, or white ones who aren't racist only as long as black people accept white norms, but who hate the hard core traditional black culture with little private property or government.

That transitions into the change in "culture" demanded by Pritchard and the Oregonian....

 

[Idog1976]

What was your job? Were you in the legal or welfare systems forcing blacks to obey a European ethical system against their heritage? Your choice of racist anecdotes ("race card," and people forced into prostitution more than once?..I don't know how that could be physically done without keeping someone in a cell..can you enlighten us) belies your orbit around putting people into jail. You don't sound liberating.

I'm assuming you are fucking kidding me right? What are you proposing be done some 400 years after most of these folks left the continent of Africa via force? You think we ought to work to recreate the Songhai Empire to make people who live in the 21st century be in an ethical system historically of black roots? Maybe you are a Marcus Gavey type with Back to Africa type ideas?

You sound like a stupid ideologue who hasn't a fucking clue how to help people other then condemn folks who don't conform to their anti-government ideology. I was helping folks with job and educational training. I guess I was suppressing them by FORCING them to make their lives better. You are the one who sounds like a racist ass with no whisper of a thought on how to better people's lives. I helped people go to the right authorities when they felt they had been wronged. I helped people get day care for their kids so they could work. I helped teen mom's get back into school, or into college.

What the fuck have YOU DONE to help people? I can't stand people who condemn the methods of those who are actually working to help people. Easy to sit in your Ivory tower and ciriticize other who are doing boots on the ground work. What was your effort donating to Smile Train? Until you volunteer at a soup kitchen or help a teen mother sort her life out I suggest you quit writing and start doing something that conforms to your ideals on how to help people.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I'd like to kick Jesse Jackson in the teeth. He's worthless. He doesnt do anything except open his mouth in an effort to get his name in the news. He serves no purpose.

 

[ABM]

I'm assuming you are..................

My response

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

I'm assuming you are fucking kidding me right? What are you proposing be done some 400 years after most of these folks left the continent of Africa via force? You think we ought to work to recreate the Songhai Empire to make people who live in the 21st century be in an ethical system historically of black roots? Maybe you are a Marcus Gavey type with Back to Africa type ideas?

You sound like a stupid ideologue who hasn't a fucking clue how to help people other then condemn folks who don't conform to their anti-government ideology. I was helping folks with job and educational training. I guess I was suppressing them by FORCING them to make their lives better. You are the one who sounds like a racist ass with no whisper of a thought on how to better people's lives. I helped people go to the right authorities when they felt they had been wronged. I helped people get day care for their kids so they could work. I helped teen mom's get back into school, or into college.

What the fuck have YOU DONE to help people? I can't stand people who condemn the methods of those who are actually working to help people. Easy to sit in your Ivory tower and ciriticize other who are doing boots on the ground work. What was your effort donating to Smile Train? Until you volunteer at a soup kitchen or help a teen mother sort her life out I suggest you quit writing and start doing something that conforms to your ideals on how to help people.

Repped.

 

[Wheels]

I swear this reminds me of Gene Wilder talking about how he hated the Johnny Depp WIlly Wonka and had a press conference about it... Who did he give his press conference to, the Dandelions in his back yard?

 

[Wheels]

you know its bad when I'm on the side of the person who allegedly made a racist comment... usually I jump all over the person who makes the comment lol.

 

[maxiep]

What was your job? Were you in the legal or welfare systems forcing blacks to obey a European ethical system against their heritage? Your choice of racist anecdotes ("race card," and people forced into prostitution more than once?..I don't know how that could be physically done without keeping someone in a cell..can you enlighten us) belies your orbit around putting people into jail. You don't sound liberating. You sound like a government employee, always on the lookout for things to report so you can ruin people's lives. Instead of making people restructure their lives, a person truly helping blacks would help the oppressed fight the dominant structure, instead of aligning himself with it.

And with that, I will add that Jesse Jackson should have shut up. Martin Luther King would have spent 99% of his time talking about poor people. But he might have barely mentioned the general trade system in pro sports, and done so years ago. He would have included the NCAA system of so-called amateurs. He would have included what Sonic fans called the broken model of cities getting teams only if the taxpayers subsidized the stadium and team, taking away money from the needy. King would have addressed the big picture instead of reacting to one speech. I'm not interested in defending fakes, whether black ones whose goal is to create a black class system, or white ones who aren't racist only as long as black people accept white norms, but who hate the hard core traditional black culture with little private property or government.

That transitions into the change in "culture" demanded by Pritchard and the Oregonian....

Damn. You can really bring the crazy.

 

[jlprk]

I'm assuming...
You sound like a stupid ideologue...
What the fuck have YOU DONE to help people? I can't stand people who...

If there is anyone in this thread who has been screaming like an ideologue, it's you. Go back and read your posts. You ask when have I worked in a soup kitchen? Probably when you were in diapers. And for free, unlike your job. That was in between about a dozen other jobs doing accounting for various social help groups, beginning probably before you were born, judging by your energy in this thread. Plus a little more hands-on stuff. Plus my own family. Ever gone to your CPA firm job, where everyone is dressed to the hilt, with your mother's crap on your pants, right after you lifted her to her porta-potty so you could change her drenched sheets (that's urine, in case you've never helped people) and change her diapers? Ever had your wife divorce you because you did this every day and holiday for years? But back to the actual jobs.

Since all your assumptions are wrong, maybe you should question your assumptions about everything else. Instead of working in the comfort of the government job "helping" people to find minimum wage jobs and turning in the troublemakers, maybe you should live in a ghetto, as I have done as a white person, and find out why humans are as they are, instead of "helping people go to the right authorities when they have been wronged," as you put it. Maybe you should work where you are the only English-speaker (other than the owner employer) as I have done. Let's see your reaction when a Mexican 6 inches taller than you is angry that you deducted lunch money from his paycheck, and you have to explain to him and 20 of his friends your calculation--when none of them speak English. Your reaction would be to "go to the right authorities" so they can be put into jail. Let's see you deal with real people without your authority crutch.

For some reason, you want to compare resumes. You don't know how badly you will lose that contest. I'll show you mercy, end the resume comparison right here before I even begin, and return to the subject.

You will discover what it's like to be black if your live an authentic life without color of authority, immersed in poor people, and it will cause you to stop your nonsense about the "race card." Jesse Jackson should not have felt the way he did (he should feel that way about poor blacks, but not rich blacks), but when I see the reasons of those who oppose him, I have to criticize them more than I do him.

 

[KingSpeed]

Racism is almost non-existant once one attains enough money.

That's absurd. Racism has nothing to do with money. It's about how we treat someone of a certain race, regardless of economic status.

It's actually racist of you to basically say "if you have money, shut up and deal with my hate of you because you are black."

Back in the 40s, Lena Horne was a successful actress who was paid well. BUT- there were hotels who wouldn't let her stay there because she was black. There were hair dressers that wouldn't do her hair because she was black. She was treated as a second class citizen because she was black. MGM was making huge strides by signing her to a contract. But she was still the victim of racism every single day and I can't imagine it feels good to be treated that way regardless of how much money you have.

I'm gay. I've made some money, That doesn't mean I can't be the victim of homophobia.

 

[KingSpeed]

Dude, while you were making money on T.V. I was WORKING with poor people of color helping them become self sufficient and working hard to make sure that any discrimination in their work place was dealt with appropriately. I also helped white people who had lost everything. I was in the trenches helping people of color.

Don't make broad sweeping statements like that about people on this forum. The racism card is used inappropriately all the time and this detracts from ACTUAL systemic racism, like red lining, gerrymandering of districts and lack of funding for schools that are filled with minorities. These are REAL issues to draw attention to. This kind of ridiculous ABSURD cries of racism when there was nothing of the sort in there actually HARMS real cries against REAL racism

This is akin to the little boy who cried wolf. Say it enough when there is no cause and then people don't listen when someone is dealing with the very real and dangerous racism that exists in America today.

I didn't make a sweeping statement. I said "some of you."

And I don't give a shit about the work you've done. Do the work for the good of it. Don't do it so that you can brag about it and act like you're a fucking know it all.

By the way, getting and making a TV show is WORK. You have no idea what goes into producing a minute of television. I know I could do the work you do. I bet you couldn't do the work I do. Or have the perseverance and ability to work under pressure to even get the job in the first place. it's WORK.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Jackson is an open racist. He always has been. He's made millions, tens of millions for himself promoting racism.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I wish Dan Gilbert owned me.

 

[Bob Dobalina]

If there is anyone in this thread who has been screaming like an ideologue, it's you. Go back and read your posts. You ask when have I worked in a soup kitchen? Probably when you were in diapers. And for free, unlike your job. That was in between about a dozen other jobs doing accounting for various social help groups, beginning probably before you were born, judging by your energy in this thread. Plus a little more hands-on stuff. Plus my own family. Ever gone to your CPA firm job, where everyone is dressed to the hilt, with your mother's crap on your pants, right after you lifted her to her porta-potty so you could change her drenched sheets (that's urine, in case you've never helped people) and change her diapers? Ever had your wife divorce you because you did this every day and holiday for years? But back to the actual jobs.

Since all your assumptions are wrong, maybe you should question your assumptions about everything else. Instead of working in the comfort of the government job "helping" people to find minimum wage jobs and turning in the troublemakers, maybe you should live in a ghetto, as I have done as a white person, and find out why humans are as they are, instead of "helping people go to the right authorities when they have been wronged," as you put it. Maybe you should work where you are the only English-speaker (other than the owner employer) as I have done. Let's see your reaction when a Mexican 6 inches taller than you is angry that you deducted lunch money from his paycheck, and you have to explain to him and 20 of his friends your calculation--when none of them speak English. Your reaction would be to "go to the right authorities" so they can be put into jail. Let's see you deal with real people without your authority crutch.

For some reason, you want to compare resumes. You don't know how badly you will lose that contest. I'll show you mercy, end the resume comparison right here before I even begin, and return to the subject.

You will discover what it's like to be black if your live an authentic life without color of authority, immersed in poor people, and it will cause you to stop your nonsense about the "race card." Jesse Jackson should not have felt the way he did (he should feel that way about poor blacks, but not rich blacks), but when I see the reasons of those who oppose him, I have to criticize them more than I do him.

Who the heck are you? I ask that respectfully cause you kind of scare me. Seriously though, I bet you have quite an interesting story to tell.

 

[Natebishop3]

I didn't make a sweeping statement. I said "some of you."

And I don't give a shit about the work you've done. Do the work for the good of it. Don't do it so that you can brag about it and act like you're a fucking know it all.

By the way, getting and making a TV show is WORK. You have no idea what goes into producing a minute of television. I know I could do the work you do. I bet you couldn't do the work I do. Or have the perseverance and ability to work under pressure to even get the job in the first place. it's WORK.

Oh please Eric.... I've done professional acting, and while it's long hours, it's hardly "work" compared to most jobs, especially since you were "the talent."

 

[CelticKing]

 

[Idog1976]

I didn't make a sweeping statement. I said "some of you."

And I don't give a shit about the work you've done. Do the work for the good of it. Don't do it so that you can brag about it and act like you're a fucking know it all.

By the way, getting and making a TV show is WORK. You have no idea what goes into producing a minute of television. I know I could do the work you do. I bet you couldn't do the work I do. Or have the perseverance and ability to work under pressure to even get the job in the first place. it's WORK.

Said by someone who has never done the kind of work I do or the soul crushing emotional drain of it for a pittance compared to what you make for your "one minute of television".

My point about economics is once there is enough money in the hands of enough people of any group change begins to happen. For instance the Civil Rights movement in the US was due ENTIRELY to WWII putting African Americans into factories whilst the white men were in Europe. The middle class blacks created by this era in turn lead to people like MLK Jr. and others who were able to use their relatively advantageous (when compared with blacks of a few decades before) position to educate, inform and begin to make social change. It was ultimately the mental fortitude of dealing with true adversity that helped see folks through that period and the beginings of reform in this country. Without question greater access to capital (hence the impact of the boycotts) and education made all the difference in the world for the African American experience.

I'm sure that racism continues to happen for those who are rich. The difference is THEY HAVE RECOURSE. A prime example (my wife is of Jewish descent by the way) is that of Holocaust victims. For instance the Roma (gypsies to use a racist term) people were killed at a much higher rate per capita then the Jews and yet there is nary a whisper of their suffering when the Holocaust is remembered. However, the educated and relatively wealthy Jews have a made a real point to stamp out Anti-Semitism in response. No wealth and education does not fix everything, but it makes a huge fucking difference.

Ultimately racism, sexism, homophobia etc. are all predicated on power. Money is power if 90% of the wealth in the world was held by black gay men, I have a feeling society would suddenly have a VERY different attitude towards those two minorities.

As to your absurd statement about the rigors of television, give me a fucking break. I have a good friend who was in Avatar so I know about the incredible amount of effort that goes into television and movies (he's done both) and I guarantee you he would never EVER change positions with me and my former job. How do I know? He's told me, because unlike you he actually gets how difficult my job is. Aren't you between jobs right now? I tell you what why don't you pad your resume with some "life experience" and volunteer at DHS for just 3 months as opposed to the years I put in and we will revisit this conversation.

Try working with a few heroin addicted 15 year old boys who are prostitutes and get back to me about the RIGOR of working on scrubs.

P.S. Rich gay men's (and women's) political contributions have had more to do with pushing forward gay rights then just about anything. It was when Harvey Milk began to get the RICH gays to go along with him that things REALLY changed.

 

[Idog1976]

If there is anyone in this thread who has been screaming like an ideologue, it's you. Go back and read your posts. You ask when have I worked in a soup kitchen? Probably when you were in diapers. And for free, unlike your job. That was in between about a dozen other jobs doing accounting for various social help groups, beginning probably before you were born, judging by your energy in this thread. Plus a little more hands-on stuff. Plus my own family. Ever gone to your CPA firm job, where everyone is dressed to the hilt, with your mother's crap on your pants, right after you lifted her to her porta-potty so you could change her drenched sheets (that's urine, in case you've never helped people) and change her diapers? Ever had your wife divorce you because you did this every day and holiday for years? But back to the actual jobs.

Since all your assumptions are wrong, maybe you should question your assumptions about everything else. Instead of working in the comfort of the government job "helping" people to find minimum wage jobs and turning in the troublemakers, maybe you should live in a ghetto, as I have done as a white person, and find out why humans are as they are, instead of "helping people go to the right authorities when they have been wronged," as you put it. Maybe you should work where you are the only English-speaker (other than the owner employer) as I have done. Let's see your reaction when a Mexican 6 inches taller than you is angry that you deducted lunch money from his paycheck, and you have to explain to him and 20 of his friends your calculation--when none of them speak English. Your reaction would be to "go to the right authorities" so they can be put into jail. Let's see you deal with real people without your authority crutch.

For some reason, you want to compare resumes. You don't know how badly you will lose that contest. I'll show you mercy, end the resume comparison right here before I even begin, and return to the subject.

You will discover what it's like to be black if your live an authentic life without color of authority, immersed in poor people, and it will cause you to stop your nonsense about the "race card." Jesse Jackson should not have felt the way he did (he should feel that way about poor blacks, but not rich blacks), but when I see the reasons of those who oppose him, I have to criticize them more than I do him.

Funny I've done volunteer work on three almost four continents including Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Turkey, Guatemala and the US. So Uh, I've done what you said. You know what got me worked up Jlprk is that you called me a racist. Something you haven't apologized for and what made me go off on you in the first place. I've helped homeless kids in Turkey and burn victims in Costa Rica. I've worked with the elderly and developmentally disabled adults. It's possible your "resume" is better then mine but only due to age.

I think Jesse Jackson has undermined his own credibility and those of other people working to help people of color in America and I stand by that statement. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. It's pretty straight forward really.

What kills me is that you and I SHOULD if you are telling the truth (which I have no way of knowing although I've been talking about that job since I first logged on here where as this is the first I've heard of YOUR humanitarian exploits) be on the same team. Yet your ridiculous criticism of me and ideological statements against aligning people with the system of the "man" is just that ridiculous. I mean you criticized me for helping people due to some convoluted ivory tower argument about the legacy of colonialism and European conquest something I'm well aware of.

The problem I have is my inability to roll back history leaving me with the best option of empowering people to deal with REAL WORLD circumstances. Not fantasy lands where people don't need wealth or property of any kind to do well. Sure some tribes in New Guinea or deep in the Amazon might function on that level, but the reality is we live in a post colonial world due to European conquest. The best we can do is empower and educate people so they can attain their goals and if they chose help their people.