OT: Jordan in the HOF

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DaRizzle said:
Nobody can deny his talent, but make no mistake, he is a bonafide asshole. It seems that him being an asshole fueled his competitive drive, but he is STILL an asshole. Calling people out like that in a HOF speech?!? Are you serious? Giving his college coach shit for not being on SI, giving his HS coach and Leroy Smith an "i told you so", calling out other HOF's for the All Star game freeze out and then saying (paraphrase)" I think I proved myself" with a snide look on his face, telling his kids he wouldnt want to be them, because of who he is. He calls out the Bulls organization saying only players win 'ships. Oh really Mr. Jordan? Then explain the Celtics and Lakers dominance over generations you moron. Saying he is right and Tex Winter was wrong in that one game he mentioned. For god sake the dude is living out the last days of his life after a stroke and all you want to do is talk over the applause when his name was mentioned and try to prove everybody else is wrong and you are right.

The one that took the cake for me was him calling out Byron Russell and then shoving it into John Stocktons face. He gives that story and then says "Remember John?" and John sits there with a stoic look on his face. Hey Jordan, how about you dont shove possibly the most saddening moment in John Stocktons career in his face ON HIS HOF NIGHT TOO NO LESS!!!

Classless SOB, who just happened to be one of if not the best player of all time
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Whatever, they were funny little anecdotes. The BRYON "not Byron" Russell story was hilarious. The dude had the balls to walk up to MJ and tell him he could shut him down. I think he deserves a little ribbing for that. And Stockton was one of the dirtiest players in NBA history, so I really don't give a shit if he thought it was out of line.

It was an actual glimpse into Jordan's personality. He has always been so guarded and polished. This was the longest I have ever heard him speak openly. You know what? I think a lot of us would have been in the same situation if we were given the chance. Nobody gives a musician shit for writing a song about how he's famous now, and the girl that left him is broke. It's human nature. You've never wanted to prove someone wrong?
 
Natebishop3 said:
It's human nature. You've never wanted to prove someone wrong?
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Its of my opinion that if you can prove somebody wrong and not actually say "I told you so" it makes it that much sweeter. You know the naysayer knows they were wrong but then on top of that you did it with class...IMO that hurts even worse for the naysayer because then they cant call them out for being a prick either
 
DaRizzle said:
Its of my opinion that if you can prove somebody wrong and not actually say "I told you so" it makes it that much sweeter. You know the naysayer knows they were wrong but then on top of that you did it with class...IMO that hurts even worse for the naysayer because then they cant call them out for being a prick either
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Then you must hate Kobe.
 
DaRizzle said:
Its of my opinion that if you can prove somebody wrong and not actually say "I told you so" it makes it that much sweeter. You know the naysayer knows they were wrong but then on top of that you did it with class...IMO that hurts even worse for the naysayer because then they cant call them out for being a prick either
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Everyone always points out the sore losers, but a sore winner is just as bad in my opinion. You should win, and to a lesser extent lose, with grace.
 
Can you imagine Tim Duncan saying things like that in his induction speech? Better yet, did Bill Russell? I don't think so.

And while I agree with DaRizzle on almost nothing, he's right that Jordan is an asshole, and he does also concede that Kobe is.

All of this "you have to be a jerk to be great" stuff is just bullshit. It's something that people who are jerks tell themselves in the hope that it makes them great. And it's funny: would Jordan's line about "but there is an 'I' in "win"" have been a good one if the Bulls hadn't hired Tex Winter (who, by the way, is the reason Jerry Krause refuses to attend the Hall of Fame because they haven't honored him)? Jordan would've just been a taller Allen Iverson.
 
EFF MJ!
I thought I was done hearing about him when he retired? Will people please remove their mouths from his nuts? Its the same ting with Bron today. Too much exposure..simply sick of both of them.
 
DaRizzle said:
Nobody can deny his talent, but make no mistake, he is a bonafide asshole. It seems that him being an asshole fueled his competitive drive, but he is STILL an asshole. Calling people out like that in a HOF speech?!? Are you serious? Giving his college coach shit for not being on SI, giving his HS coach and Leroy Smith an "i told you so", calling out other HOF's for the All Star game freeze out and then saying (paraphrase)" I think I proved myself" with a snide look on his face, telling his kids he wouldnt want to be them, because of who he is. He calls out the Bulls organization saying only players win 'ships. Oh really Mr. Jordan? Then explain the Celtics and Lakers dominance over generations you moron. Saying he is right and Tex Winter was wrong in that one game he mentioned. For god sake the dude is living out the last days of his life after a stroke and all you want to do is talk over the applause when his name was mentioned and try to prove everybody else is wrong and you are right.

The one that took the cake for me was him calling out Byron Russell and then shoving it into John Stocktons face. He gives that story and then says "Remember John?" and John sits there with a stoic look on his face. Hey Jordan, how about you dont shove possibly the most saddening moment in John Stocktons career in his face ON HIS HOF NIGHT TOO NO LESS!!!

Classless SOB, who just happened to be one of if not the best player of all time
Click to expand...
Pretty much sums it up..yet everyone gobbles it up b/c its Michael Jordan. So glad I didn't root for that butthole when I was a kid and everyone else did.
Still, to this day, I have a shirt that says "I want to be like Mike(mike is crossed out) and replaced with Clyde.
Clyde may have not been better, but he is a much classier person..also verythankful our new superstar BRoy is humble as well.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
All of this "you have to be a jerk to be great" stuff is just bullshit. It's something that people who are jerks tell themselves in the hope that it makes them great.
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Is it really BS?

There is a type of personality (EG Russell, Duncan) that can play their best without being hyper-emotional - but they are the exceptions. With most great players, it is more a matter of knowing when to turn it off. Bird was a total prick on the court, but mostly a gentleman off it. Kobe seems almost clueless in this department. Jordan was/is somewhere in between.

Put it this way: Clyde was a very good player who liked to win/ Jordan was a great player because he would die (or kill) to avoid losing. Like you, I liked Clyde. I would have liked him even better if he had led Portland to a title, instead of riding Hakeem to one in Houston!
 
oldmangrouch said:
Is it really BS?
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Since you ask - yes. It's a very American (or more broadly, Western) cultural idea, not some biological imperative.

There is a type of personality (EG Russell, Duncan) that can play their best without being hyper-emotional - but they are the exceptions.
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Wait - I thought it was Jordan who was supposed to be unique?

Put it this way: Clyde was a very good player who liked to win/ Jordan was a great player because he would die (or kill) to avoid losing. Like you, I liked Clyde. I would have liked him even better if he had led Portland to a title, instead of riding Hakeem to one in Houston!
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Ah yes, Hakeem. What a tool he was! Everyone used to comment - "Great player, but collosal asshole!" And of course Hakeem and Clyde had the benefit of playing under Hall of Fame coach Domjanovich. Poor Jordan had to struggle along under Phil Jackson's inept leadership. Whatever happened to that chump after he didn't have Jordan to lean on?
 
MAS RipCity said:
Still, to this day, I have a shirt that says "I want to be like Mike(mike is crossed out) and replaced with Clyde.
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I liked the sign that somebody held up in the '92 finals: "To Air is Human, to Glide, Divine"
 
MAS RipCity said:
Pretty much sums it up..yet everyone gobbles it up b/c its Michael Jordan. So glad I didn't root for that butthole when I was a kid and everyone else did.
Still, to this day, I have a shirt that says "I want to be like Mike(mike is crossed out) and replaced with Clyde.
Clyde may have not been better, but he is a much classier person..also verythankful our new superstar BRoy is humble as well.
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And yet, Clyde wore a Rockets jacket at the 50 greatest ceremony. Not very classy.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Since you ask - yes. It's a very American (or more broadly, Western) cultural idea, not some biological imperative.



Wait - I thought it was Jordan who was supposed to be unique?



Ah yes, Hakeem. What a tool he was! Everyone used to comment - "Great player, but collosal asshole!" And of course Hakeem and Clyde had the benefit of playing under Hall of Fame coach Domjanovich. Poor Jordan had to struggle along under Phil Jackson's inept leadership. Whatever happened to that chump after he didn't have Jordan to lean on?
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Jordan may be an unusual talent, but he is hardly unique in personality.

As for Hakeem, he is an example of a player who knew when to turn it on and off. Great person off the court, but a totally focused competitor on it.

Clyde? He kind of had it backward. A gentleman on the court, and an asshat off it. (Sorry, but when he wore the Rockets gear to the "50 greatest of all time" ceremony, he reverted to being just another player.)
 
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Fuck Wojo. Seriously. Jordan did a little ribbing up there. It was good natured and it was what drove Jordan to be the competitor that he was. What group of friends don't give each other shit every chance they get? Sounds like Wojo needs to quit being such a sensitive bitch and learn to take things in stride like most guys do.
 
Yet another counterexample to the "great players are egotistical narcissists" theory is Bill Walton. Possibly the greatest college player ever, and a great NBA player when not injured (which was sadly seldom). Now, he's a bit of a buffoon, but if anything he praises everybody else BUT himself. Totally team oriented.

Also: Magic Johnson. Say what you will about him, but he wouldn't give a classless speech dissing everybody whom he felt ever slighted him like that. And there's a man who has actually gone on to amazing success in other fields (he's earned FAR more as a businessman than he ever did as a player), unlike Jordan who appears to suck at everything else. If "being a jerk" was really what drove him to success, wouldn't it help in other fields, given that he's clearly always a jerk?
 
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Basically what this thread comes down to is: the people who hate him think he was a douche. The people who like him thought he was great.
 
44Thrilla said:
Basically what this thread comes down to is: the people who hate him think he was a douche. The people who like him thought he was great.
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you forgot my category:

people who think hes a douche and possibly the GOAT...you can be both and he was/is both
 
DaRizzle said:
you forgot my category:

people who think hes a douche and possibly the GOAT...you can be both and he was/is both
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I'm in this. Don't like him as a person, but he was an amazing player.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
All of this "you have to be a jerk to be great" stuff is just bullshit. It's something that people who are jerks tell themselves in the hope that it makes them great.
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Agreed. This. +1. etc.

barfo
 
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