OT: Kobe vs Jordan?

[Wheels]

I love how we bitch and moan about other players. I for one would KILL to have Kobe on this team, and have Titles. I'm not saying Kobe is MJ by any means, but people need to quit letting their hate cloud them. We would love to have Kobe on this team with what he has done, and won. Those who say they wouldnt are fools.

 

[MARIS61]

I love how we bitch and moan about other players. I for one would KILL to have Kobe on this team, and have Titles. I'm not saying Kobe is MJ by any means, but people need to quit letting their hate cloud them. We would love to have Kobe on this team with what he has done, and won. Those who say they wouldnt are fools.

Or maybe they dislike anal-rapists, ego-maniacs, and all-around bad people.

I'd love to have Kobe spend the next decade in Portland, in our correctional facility.

 

[MARIS61]

Good point.

How can a player with only a SINGLE MVP trophy be talked about as being the greatest player of all time? I mean hell Bob Pettit has more MVP trophies than Kobe.

As does Steve Nash.

 

[Wheels]

Or maybe they dislike anal-rapists, ego-maniacs, and all-around bad people.

I'd love to have Kobe spend the next decade in Portland, in our correctional facility.

I didnt leave you out of the post dont worry

 

[Wheels]

Or maybe they dislike anal-rapists, ego-maniacs, and all-around bad people.

I'd love to have Kobe spend the next decade in Portland, in our correctional facility.

right you know him personally

 

[Minstrel]

I love how we bitch and moan about other players. I for one would KILL to have Kobe on this team, and have Titles. I'm not saying Kobe is MJ by any means, but people need to quit letting their hate cloud them. We would love to have Kobe on this team with what he has done, and won. Those who say they wouldnt are fools.

That's a very different issue, though. I'd love to have Chris Bosh on the Blazers, but that doesn't make him arguably the GOAT. Not that Bosh is the talent that Kobe is, but disagreeing that Kobe is all that close to a prime Jordan isn't the same as hating on him. A lot of fabulous players weren't as good as Jordan. Personally, I'd say that only Wilt Chamberlain and maybe Oscar Robertson were on the same level as Jordan. LeBron James may end up on the same level one day as well. He's on his way.

 

[Wheels]

That's a very different issue, though. I'd love to have Chris Bosh on the Blazers, but that doesn't make him arguably the GOAT. Not that Bosh is the talent that Kobe is, but disagreeing that Kobe is all that close to a prime Jordan isn't the same as hating on him. A lot of fabulous players weren't as good as Jordan. Personally, I'd say that only Wilt Chamberlain and maybe Oscar Robertson were on the same level as Jordan. LeBron James may end up on the same level one day as well. He's on his way.

I agree with everything you say in this. But unfortunately I think a lot of people share the same sentiments like what Maris posted above. Thats what I'm referring to.

 

[STOMP]

I think this debate can be settled quite easily. It was never questioned with MJ if he was the best player in the game during his time.

I question it now and then in this sense... switch his career path on the Bulls with Hakeeem on the Rockets and who wins the titles? Hakeem with Pippen Horace and some three point shooters or Mike with the dogcrap HO played with for most of his career?

MJ was awesome no doubt, but it's a team game. Hakeem was clearly the best post player of his time and thats saying quite a bit considering who was playing...best post player I've seen. I wouldn't say one was better then the other as they're near impossible to compare... both absolutely dominated their competition individually. MJ won the titles with vastly superior teammates

btw... MJ over Kobe 8 days a week

STOMP

 

[handiman]

I question it now and then in this sense... switch his career path on the Bulls with Hakeeem on the Rockets and who wins the titles? Hakeem with Pippen Horace and some three point shooters or Mike with the dogcrap HO played with for most of his career?

Major knock on Hakeem's claim to the throne: He only won titles when Jordan was in retirement. Those were widely regarded as some of the weakest championship teams ever... That doesn't directly answer your question (which is impossible to answer with anything more than idle speculation), but it at least adds some context.

 

[Mr.Gunner]

People need to accept the fact that both players were the most dominant players during their time. its unfair to compare them, rules have changed, some teams have gotten stronger and some have weakened, you could argue MJ played against weaker teams since there was more expansion teams during his time, but you could also argue that fouls are more easily given during kobe's time and the list can go on and on. To say that Kobe isn't anywhere near MJ's level is BS. He is the closest thing to MJ. Vince Carter, T-Mac, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Wade, are very talented but have failed to maitain the same level as kobe. Has there ever been a better clutch shooter, more aggresive player after Jordan?...if so, who?. Lets stop the comparisons, at least till kobe retires, then we can see who was better or at least in our opinions. This will be a similar Pele Vs Maradonna opinion war, that will never end.

 

[kobeownslebron]

I think pure talen wise he's the greatest player we have ever seen but because Jordan has more titles than Kobe.

 

[kobeownslebron]

Kobe won three of his titles with Shaq and one of his titles with Pau Gasol. Jordan never played with an offensive presence in the post.

First off Jordan didn't face any great defenses like the Pistons or Celtics which is why never lost an NBA Finals.

Second you can't bring that into this argument because Kobe was as crucial to those titles if not more crucial than Shaq was because of his clutch shot making, same with Gasol plus when Gasol played soft it was Kobe who carried and elevated that team to the Finals 3 years in a row. If it wasn't for Kobe right now the Lakers would be irelevant right now.

You also make it sound like Jordan didn't play with any stars are you kidding me ? He played with Pippen who is a top 50 player off all time and Jordan didn't do shut in the playoffs until Pippen got there.

You highly doubt he'll get 6 titles ? When he beats your Celtics this year he'll be one ring away from it. With the team he has now they are the favorite for the next couple of years especially if they get Bosh this summer.

Is Jordan the GOAT yeah he is but not by far it's definitely a conversation and you really need to make a better argument than saying Kobe had Shaq and Gasol. Every great payer needs another great player to win titles.

2009 - Kobe and Gasol.
2008 - KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen.
2007 - Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker.
2006 - Wade & Shaq.
2005 - Duncan, Ginobli, and Parker.
2004 - Billups, Sheed, and Big Ben.
2003 - Duncan, Robinson, Ginobli, and Parker.
2000-2002 - Kobe and Shaq
1999 - Duncan and Robinson.
1991 - 1993, 1996-1998 - Jordan and Pippen.
1995 - Dream and Drexler

In the last 20 years only 1 team won a title with only having one star and that was the 1994 Rockets.

 

[huevonkiller]

I question it now and then in this sense... switch his career path on the Bulls with Hakeeem on the Rockets and who wins the titles? Hakeem with Pippen Horace and some three point shooters or Mike with the dogcrap HO played with for most of his career?

MJ was awesome no doubt, but it's a team game. Hakeem was clearly the best post player of his time and thats saying quite a bit considering who was playing...best post player I've seen. I wouldn't say one was better then the other as they're near impossible to compare... both absolutely dominated their competition individually. MJ won the titles with vastly superior teammates

btw... MJ over Kobe 8 days a week

STOMP

Kobe's best two years beat Hakeem's best two years in win shares. Kobe had a more dominant playoff run last year than Hakeem ever did.

Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the most overrated players because of those title runs. He was very good in the playoffs, he wasn't all-time historic. He was never on Jordan's level statistically.

That said Kobe's not on Jordan's level either. But by far neither is Olajuwon.

 

[blazerboy30]

People need to accept the fact that both players were the most dominant players during their time.

False.

Shaq was the most dominant player in the league for most of Kobe's career. Lebron has been the most dominant player in the league much of the rest of Kobe's career.

Jordan was the most dominant player in the game, by far, for a decade.

Kobe is a great player. But he isn't close to Jordan.

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Best ever???

1. Wilt
2. Jordan
3. Oscar

Kobe's not there yet. By far. He is very good, but not Big Dipper, MJ, or Big O good!!

 

[Minstrel]

This will be a similar Pele Vs Maradonna opinion war, that will never end.

The basketball version is Wilt vs. Jordan, not Kobe vs. Jordan.

And since Kobe is past his prime and never rose to a prime Jordan's level, it's never going to be a legitimate debate, IMO. I agree with those who say that while Jordan was clearly the dominant player of his era, Kobe never was. Other players, like Shaq, Garnett, Duncan in the past and James, Wade and Paul now, were on the same level or better.

Kobe was one of a handful of the best players of his generation. Jordan was easily the best player of his generation and arguably the greatest ever.

 

[Mr.Gunner]

False.

Shaq was the most dominant player in the league for most of Kobe's career. Lebron has been the most dominant player in the league much of the rest of Kobe's career.

Jordan was the most dominant player in the game, by far, for a decade.

Kobe is a great player. But he isn't close to Jordan.

I see that you failed to read my post, Jordan was easily most dominant cause he did not have much competition during his time, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Barkley,Ewing, the rest were probably on his team which he had a better overall team than kobe's ever had. And how has James over shadowed kobe's carrer?... the guy is a media darling and has nothing to prove on championship level and is a choker in the big games something kobe isn't. Shaq in the other hand was the most dominant player during his LA carreer, never quite managed to keep the same level. Both of your so called greater than kobe players will be sitting at home watching the NBA finals, probably hoping Kobe doesn't get his 5th ring.

 

[Mr.Gunner]

The basketball version is Wilt vs. Jordan, not Kobe vs. Jordan. It's porbably the least accurate comparison, not the same position.

And since Kobe is past his prime and never rose to a prime Jordan's level, it's never going to be a legitimate debate, IMO. I agree with those who say that while Jordan was clearly the dominant player of his era, Kobe never was. Other players, like Shaq, Garnett, Duncan in the past and James, Wade and Paul now, were on the same level or better.

Kobe was one of a handful of the best players of his generation. Jordan was easily the best player of his generation and arguably the greatest ever.

The post is filled with lots of BS...lol

 

[Wheels]

The post is filled with lots of BS...lol

Whats BS about it? Kobe being past his prime? Being a handful of best players? I would say his comments can be taken just as subjectively as your comments.

 

[Luther]

I see that you failed to read my post, Jordan was easily most dominant cause he did not have much competition during his time, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Barkley,Ewing, the rest were probably on his team which he had a better overall team than kobe's ever had. And how has James over shadowed kobe's carrer?... the guy is a media darling and has nothing to prove on championship level and is a choker in the big games something kobe isn't. Shaq in the other hand was the most dominant player during his LA carreer, never quite managed to keep the same level. Both of your so called greater than kobe players will be sitting at home watching the NBA finals, probably hoping Kobe doesn't get his 5th ring.

I stopped reading your post after you said he didn't have competition during his time. You must have Kobe's balls in your eye sockets or something. Defense was much better when Jordan was playing. The rules allowed defenses to be more effective so even if the players weren't as good on defense (which is completely false) the rules would allow those players to be much much more physical with Jordan. You can't touch players on the perimeter these days and it makes for easier scoring. At the end of the day, without Shaq (the most dominant big man of all time) Kobe has 1 ring....Not much to hang your hat on when comparing a career to MICHAEL JORDANS....This isn't even close for so many reasons.

 

[kobeownslebron]

The basketball version is Wilt vs. Jordan, not Kobe vs. Jordan.

And since Kobe is past his prime and never rose to a prime Jordan's level, it's never going to be a legitimate debate, IMO. I agree with those who say that while Jordan was clearly the dominant player of his era, Kobe never was. Other players, like Shaq, Garnett, Duncan in the past and James, Wade and Paul now, were on the same level or better.

Kobe was one of a handful of the best players of his generation. Jordan was easily the best player of his generation and arguably the greatest ever.

Kobe past his prime ? Have you not seen the playoffs LMAO. When you average 27, 5, and 5 during the season and 30, 5, 5 in the playoffs with a shitload of injuries you are in your prime.

Think before you speak kid.

 

[Shapecity]

Kobe best player on the planet today, but he's not better or will ever be better than Jordan or Magic.

 

[Mr.Gunner]

I stopped reading your post after you said he didn't have competition during his time. You must have Kobe's balls in your eye sockets or something. Defense was much better when Jordan was playing. The rules allowed defenses to be more effective so even if the players weren't as good on defense (which is completely false) the rules would allow those players to be much much more physical with Jordan. You can't touch players on the perimeter these days and it makes for easier scoring. At the end of the day, without Shaq (the most dominant big man of all time) Kobe has 1 ring....Not much to hang your hat on when comparing a career to MICHAEL JORDANS....This isn't even close for so many reasons.

I see that you admit, Shaq was the most dominant big man of his generation and that I can agree. I like the fact that you somehow ignore the other 3 rings kobe has, because Shaq single-handedly won all games whithout his help...lol you expect me to take that serious?....Then Jordan has no rings, cause he never had pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Harper, Longley on his team.

 

[huevonkiller]

I stopped reading your post after you said he didn't have competition during his time. You must have Kobe's balls in your eye sockets or something. Defense was much better when Jordan was playing. The rules allowed defenses to be more effective so even if the players weren't as good on defense (which is completely false) the rules would allow those players to be much much more physical with Jordan. You can't touch players on the perimeter these days and it makes for easier scoring. At the end of the day, without Shaq (the most dominant big man of all time) Kobe has 1 ring....Not much to hang your hat on when comparing a career to MICHAEL JORDANS....This isn't even close for so many reasons.

There are various stats that adjust for defense. I'm not sure defenses were better, since teams can play zones now and FTs have decreased since 2006. Kobe also had more win shares in the second title run. So he is a very elite leader and impressive player, he's just overstated in the media now.

 

[Wheels]

I would like to take this moment, to welcome the mouthy noobs.

 

[Wheels]

Kobe past his prime ? Have you not seen the playoffs LMAO. When you average 27, 5, and 5 during the season and 30, 5, 5 in the playoffs with a shitload of injuries you are in your prime.

Think before you speak kid.

so you think Kobe is in his physical prime right now?

 

[huevonkiller]

Kobe best player on the planet today, but he's not better or will ever be better than Jordan or Magic.

Disagree Shape, he's certainly in Magic's league, and has reached a similar prime. Kobe is the Magic-level type of winner in this era (I think he wins this year), not the best player though.

 

[Shapecity]

I see that you admit, Shaq was the most dominant big man of his generation and that I can agree. I like the fact that you somehow ignore the other 3 rings kobe has, because Shaq single-handedly won all games whithout his help...lol you expect me to take that serious?....Then Jordan has no rings, cause he never had pippen, Kukoc, Kerr, Harper, Longley on his team.

I agree Kobe doesn't get his fair share of credit for those championship runs with Shaq. He was doing a lot of the work in the 4th period because Shaq was a liability at the free throw line.

 

[Masbee]

People need to accept the fact that both players were the most dominant players during their time. its unfair to compare them, rules have changed, some teams have gotten stronger and some have weakened, you could argue MJ played against weaker teams since there was more expansion teams during his time, but you could also argue that fouls are more easily given during kobe's time and the list can go on and on. To say that Kobe isn't anywhere near MJ's level is BS. He is the closest thing to MJ. Vince Carter, T-Mac, Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, Wade, are very talented but have failed to maitain the same level as kobe. Has there ever been a better clutch shooter, more aggresive player after Jordan?...if so, who?. Lets stop the comparisons, at least till kobe retires, then we can see who was better or at least in our opinions. This will be a similar Pele Vs Maradonna opinion war, that will never end.

Kobe as a "Clutch" player or shooter is a media myth. There is no factual basis to substantiate this myth.

He does take a shitload of "clutch" shots. Thus he can compile a neat video montage of all his big made shots, after editied out all the many, many, many misses - including a whole ton where Kobe forces up bad shots while his open teamates stand around watching.

 

[huevonkiller]

I agree Kobe doesn't get his fair share of credit for those championship runs with Shaq. He was doing a lot of the work in the 4th period because Shaq was a liability at the free throw line.

His numbers weren't that great in two title runs. I can understand why he doesn't always get credit for those.