OT: LBJ-Bosh-Wade/Rose

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One thing I haven't seen commented upon is the influence of Pat Riley. He is the biggest hardass in the League this side of Jerry Sloan. What would happen the first time James' entourage tried to get special treatment? I think they'd be glued to a wall with Riley's hair gel and slapped around.
 
Nikolokolus said:
The NBA is about to get a lot less interesting to me. Lack of competitiveness around the league, no chance for small market teams to build a roster through deft trades and smart drafting. It will be great spectacle, but terrible sport.
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That is the one thing that the NBA isn't figuring out. If other teams don't start getting A share of the pie, the fans will lose interest. Why should I watch the NBA if my team is never going to have a chance. If it is just some bullshit dog and pony show where a couple of guys determine who is going to win, just hand them the title and get it over with. The NFL has it right. The competition is fierce, the league is balanced, and most teams only stay on top for a couple of years at a time.
 
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hasoos said:
That is the one thing that the NBA isn't figuring out. If other teams don't start getting A share of the pie, the fans will lose interest. Why should I watch the NBA if my team is never going to have a chance. If it is just some bullshit dog and pony show where a couple of guys determine who is going to win, just hand them the title and get it over with. The NFL has it right. The competition is fierce, the league is balanced, and most teams only stay on top for a couple of years at a time.
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Repped. That's why the NFL has surpassed MLB as the most popular sport. The NBA is choosing the MLB model.
 
LeBron isn't going to Miami, Bosh basically alluded to it in the Miami Herald.

The guy that reported the summit was interviewed last night on NBAtv (Ira Winderman I believe). He said the trio was supposed to meet at a charity Golf event but LeBron and Wade couldn't make it.

If I've looked at this correctly, the Raptors will basically have max contract cap space next off-season if Chris walks. They can get a much better sign and trade or just let Chris leave. But they're sacrificing all that for a quick sign and trade for Beasley (who nobody seems to want)? Doesn't make sense to me. I'd like see someone other than a Heat homer report the details. These off-season updates have been confusing.
 
I hope NY gets shut out completely.

The attitude of 'we can get anybody because we're New York' is annoying.

I hope LBJ stays in Cleveland or goes to Chicago.

Miami with Bosh/Wade is interesting. However, they'll have three fringe starters and a bench of D-League call-up's.
 
huevonkiller said:
LeBron isn't going to Miami, Bosh basically alluded to it in the Miami Herald.

The guy that reported the summit was interviewed last night on NBAtv (Ira Winderman I believe). He said the trio was supposed to meet at a charity Golf event but LeBron and Wade couldn't make it.

If I've looked at this correctly, the Raptors will basically have max contract cap space next off-season if Chris walks. They can get a much better sign and trade or just let Chris leave. But they're sacrificing all that for a quick sign and trade for Beasley (who nobody seems to want)? Doesn't make sense to me. I'd like see someone other than a Heat homer report the details. These off-season updates have been confusing.
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The problem I have with sign and trades is that a lot of the time, the teams do not have a choice to what is coming back. They basically have to take another teams salary dump. Fuck that. Why would any team want to help another team by letting them dump salary? If they are going to include good players in the sign and trade that is one thing. But we all know that isn't the case. It always ends up the player is leaving, and you can take this in return for him to get paid what he wants, or you can let him walk. IMO most of the time, it is well worth letting the player walk. You don't want the players they are sending in return. You don't want their salary on your team. On top of it, why would you want to help the guy who is leaving your team? Hell look at Cleveland. If Lebron leaves, with the salary albatross they have on their team, they aren't going to want some more role players in return. Fuck that. If Lebron left, I would say "adios, your not getting paid as much there, and we aren't going to help you get paid more, and we aren't going to help your team have salary available to pick up more players to help you out on your quest to a title."
 
I tweeted this to Bucher and haven't gotten a response...

Since Wade'll get 10.5% max, and Bosh's S&T will be 10.5% max, who does MIA have left to send to CLE in an S&T. Normally you could just do a 2nd-round draft pick, but suppose CLE said something like "Eff You, LeBron...you get your 30M less and like it?" Could LBJ handle being the 3rd-highest-paid player on a team? :)
 
Maybe Durant and Wall will want to come here and we can form the next super team that faces the Bulls for the next decade...

Seriously though, the thought of LeBron and Bosh going to either one scares me.
 
huevonkiller said:
Interesting article by Woj on free agency. His sources are usually solid.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AkA49VnuoCUyHYp32yEJE9q8vLYF?slug=aw-lebronnets063010
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Very interesting indeed. Ever since NJ has traded Yi to have 30m projected cap space (same as Bulls), I've been wondering if they really are an inferior option to the Bulls (who appear to make the most basketball sense)... Other than Chicago, only NJ can offer him a place to play with a good PG and (more importantly) a good center. Yes, Rose is better than Harris but not by a lot. Rose has way more room to improve probably, BUT I think Brook Lopez is a much better prospect than Joakim Noah. 3 years younger, 20 PER (compared to Noah's 18), bigger, better low post option (worse rebounder).

Rose > Harris
Noah < Lopez
Gibson << Favors

Reinsdorf <<< Prokhorov
Cap space: draw
Chi < NY
Thibodeau < Johnson (Johnson is more proven at least)

And they can get the same sidekick for him (Amare/Boozer/Johnson etc.), especially if Bosh goes to Miami.
 
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axs88 said:
Rose > Harris
Noah < Lopez
Gibson << Favors
Reinsdorf <<< Prokhorov
Cap space: draw
Chi < NY
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CHI with its inferior roster made the playoffs, while NJ lost the most games of anyone in the league?
 
yuyuza1 said:
CHI with its inferior roster made the playoffs, while NJ lost the most games of anyone in the league?
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I'm not saying they had the better roster (that would be laughable). Both of those teams are stripped down for 2010-11 now -- a lot of players that contributed to the Bulls success are no longer under contract (just like a lot of Nets players who contributed to NJ being the worst team). I was merely comparing their current players and most important assets (market, ownership). Which one do you disagree with?
 
axs88 said:
I'm not saying they had the better roster (that would be laughable). Both of those teams are stripped down for 2010-11 now -- a lot of players that contributed to the Bulls success are no longer under contract (just like a lot of Nets players who contributed to NJ being the worst team). I was merely comparing their current players and most important assets (market, ownership). Which one do you disagree with?
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The only significant player CHI is losing is Hinrich, who is not the difference between 41 wins, and 12 wins. I'm saying that you're >> <<< system is flawed. CHI is far better.
 
yuyuza1 said:
The only significant player CHI is losing is Hinrich, who is not the difference between 41 wins, and 12 wins. I'm saying that you're >> <<< system is flawed. CHI is far better.
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+Salmons/Warrick, Brad Miller, Flip Murray, Jannero Pargo.

Never mind though, as you seem to want to argue about something else than what my post was about.

It's all good though, working and posting at the same time can be difficult. :)
 
Nikolokolus said:
The NBA is about to get a lot less interesting to me. Lack of competitiveness around the league, no chance for small market teams to build a roster through deft trades and smart drafting. It will be great spectacle, but terrible sport.
Click to expand...

A bit like the 1980s, where you had "superteams" like the Lakers and Celtics, who won 8 of the 10 titles. The league was pretty popular back then. I guess you basically had to have "your team" and then decide who you liked between the Lakers and Celtics.

As for the original question, I'd be okay with it for the "wow" factor also. I enjoyed watching the Bulls play brilliant basketball (of course, part of that was their defensive brilliance, which none of the proposed superteams would feature). It would suck to have such a roadblock to Portland winning a title, but...I'm not totally sure I ever really believed Portland would win a title anytime soon. It takes such a convergence of dynamics. Maybe if Oden hadn't suffered big injuries and Aldridge had had his break-out season, I wouldn't be so pessimistic. (I do think Portland had a small chance last year if they had remained healthy, and again have a small chance in the coming year with health...if a James/Wade/Bosh type of team doesn't emerge.)
 
axs88 said:
+Salmons/Warrick, Brad Miller, Flip Murray, Jannero Pargo.

Never mind though, as you seem to want to argue about something else than what my post was about.
Click to expand...

Not really. I was actually being serious.

Salmons did not even play in their last 31 games during their playoff push or the playoffs.
Warrick played 10mpg and had 0.6 PER (seriously).
Brad Miller played 18mpg and had a 3.7 PER.
Flip Murray played 19mpg and had 17 PER --- I'll give you this one.
Pargo played 4mpg and had 1.6 PER.

Like I said, these players are not significant at all, and did not contribute to CHI's late season playoff push.

And, I'm on my lunch break.
 
You seem to be using playoff numbers, but were quoting their regular season record. If we're going by games played, then it should be mentioned they had Tyrus Thomas, John Salmons and others for the greater half of the season. Eh, why am I even arguing your strawman, when I never said the Nets were a better team last year than Chicago?
 
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axs88 said:
Very interesting indeed. Ever since NJ has traded Yi to have 30m projected cap space (same as Bulls), I've been wondering if they really are an inferior option to the Bulls (who appear to make the most basketball sense)... Other than Chicago, only NJ can offer him a place to play with a good PG and (more importantly) a good center. Yes, Rose is better than Harris but not by a lot. Rose has way more room to improve probably, BUT I think Brook Lopez is a much better prospect than Joakim Noah. 3 years younger, 20 PER (compared to Noah's 18), bigger, better low post option (worse rebounder).

Rose > Harris
Noah < Lopez
Gibson << Favors

Reinsdorf <<< Prokhorov
Cap space: draw
Chi < NY
Thibodeau < Johnson (Johnson is more proven at least)

And they can get the same sidekick for him (Amare/Boozer/Johnson etc.), especially if Bosh goes to Miami.
Click to expand...

I think that's a reasonable comparison. The NBA really is all about your top three or four players. LeBron just played on a pretty deep team, but with nobody else who could dominate. If I'm LeBron, I look at Noah/Rose and Lopez/Favors, and ask myself: who is most likely to be an incredible (and complementary) second banana? Of those four guys, I'd put my money on Lopez.

Also, the Nets can sell LeBron on creating a legacy. Not just being part of a dominating franchise, but defining that dominating franchise like only very, very few players ever have (Jordan, Tim Duncan).

Comparing win totals between Chicago and New Jersey last year seems pointless to me. Chicago was honestly trying to compete for a playoff spot. Deng, the guy LeBron would be replacing in the starting lineup, played the second most minutes on the team last year. The third most minutes went to Hinrich, who isn't even on the team anymore. Ditto with Brad Miller, who played the fifth most minutes on the team (almost the exact same number as Noah). That's a total of 7000+ minutes out of 19,000 minutes in the regular season.

New Jersey was clearly tanking as hard as possible to get a top pick. It was all about getting Harris and Lopez lots of court time, tanking to get a top 3 pick, and clearing out space to be players for the LeBron James Bonanza. They pretty much succeeded on all fronts.

I can see why Chicago is a media front-runner for LeBron. But the more I think about the intangibles (distance from Cleveland, budding young center, ability to dominate a franchise, the billionaire thing, playing in New York) the less far-fetched New Jersey seems.
 
maxiep said:
It's a chickenshit move, IMO. I'm a believer if you're a good enough player, people will want to come to you. Furthermore, the people of Cleveland have been beyond loyal to LeBron and he's about to shit all over them by going to their primary rival. How would we feel if Clyde decided to go to the L*kers in 1990 because we fell short against Detroit? It would be a betrayal of all the affection we had shown him.

LeBron should stay in Cleveland, Bosh should either stay in Toronto or give them an opportunity for a sign and trade. Wade is already staying in Miami, so good for him. Amare will get traded, but it's unlikely he'll leave the Suns for nothing.

I have no problem with trades for stars; I have a real problem with players getting together and trying to form "superteams". That's how shit bands like Damn Yankees get started.
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Co-sign.

But apparently, Lebron is still 'slightly' leaning towards Cleveland (with them possibly acquiring maybe Dirk, Bosh, JJ or Amare in a sign-and-trade). And then Chicago/Miami.

lol @ the knicks.
 
Honestly, I hope LeBron never wins a title, because I think that would considerably diminish his greatness, so I hope the super team never happens.
 
mook said:
I think that's a reasonable comparison. The NBA really is all about your top three or four players. LeBron just played on a pretty deep team, but with nobody else who could dominate. If I'm LeBron, I look at Noah/Rose and Lopez/Favors, and ask myself: who is most likely to be an incredible (and complementary) second banana? Of those four guys, I'd put my money on Lopez.

Also, the Nets can sell LeBron on creating a legacy. Not just being part of a dominating franchise, but defining that dominating franchise like only very, very few players ever have (Jordan, Tim Duncan).

Comparing win totals between Chicago and New Jersey last year seems pointless to me. Chicago was honestly trying to compete for a playoff spot. Deng, the guy LeBron would be replacing in the starting lineup, played the second most minutes on the team last year. The third most minutes went to Hinrich, who isn't even on the team anymore. Ditto with Brad Miller, who played the fifth most minutes on the team (almost the exact same number as Noah). That's a total of 7000+ minutes out of 19,000 minutes in the regular season.

New Jersey was clearly tanking as hard as possible to get a top pick. It was all about getting Harris and Lopez lots of court time, tanking to get a top 3 pick, and clearing out space to be players for the LeBron James Bonanza. They pretty much succeeded on all fronts.

I can see why Chicago is a media front-runner for LeBron. But the more I think about the intangibles (distance from Cleveland, budding young center, ability to dominate a franchise, the billionaire thing, playing in New York) the less far-fetched New Jersey seems.
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Yep, I've always thought it was NJN. Just my opinion though. Once I saw Lopez I knew.
 
Everyone is talking as if Cleveland can offer Lebron the most money...am I the only person that thinks a Russian billionaire might have some back channel ways to get a lot more money to him than that? Granted it would be in violation of the CBA...but do you really think the Russian is worried about that?
 
Blazer_Hippie said:
Everyone is talking as if Cleveland can offer Lebron the most money...am I the only person that thinks a Russian billionaire might have some back channel ways to get a lot more money to him than that? Granted it would be in violation of the CBA...but do you really think the Russian is worried about that?
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He's not considering Cleveland just because of the money. He's going to accept less money almost anywhere he goes, and he's still entertaining offers from half a dozen teams.
 
Blazer_Hippie said:
Everyone is talking as if Cleveland can offer Lebron the most money...am I the only person that thinks a Russian billionaire might have some back channel ways to get a lot more money to him than that? Granted it would be in violation of the CBA...but do you really think the Russian is worried about that?
Click to expand...

You're thinking like the new owner for the nets who is promising to make Lebron a "global icon" if he signs with the nets.

The self-made mogul has carefully crafted a detailed and daring plan to make James a billionaire. The Nets will show him the map of the world, where the mogul has gone in China and India and Russia to make his billions and convince James that there’s a blueprint here for him too.
 
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