OT: LeBron vs. Jordan (first 6 years)

[VanillaGorilla]

Michael Jordan (first 6 years):
32.8 PPG
6.3 RPG
6.0 APG
3.3 TOPG
28% on three point field goals
.7 points per field goal attempt

LeBron James (career, 6 years):
27.5 PPG
7.0 RPG
6.7 APG
3.3 TOPG
33% on three point field goals
.8 points per field goal attempt

So, what is apparent from these stats is that Jordan scored more while being slightly less efficient at scoring and shooting a worse three point percentage. James rebounds better, records more assists and the same amount of turnovers, giving him a better assist to turnover ratio.

And all of this is while Jordan is 3 years older with the highest level of college experience.

Would be good if someone could post advanced stats.

 

[Wheels]

I still take Jordan, especially with a game on the line. Hell in the NBA today if there was 1 second on the clock and down by two, I could think of at least 4 or 5 people I want shooting those FT's before Lebron.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I still take Jordan, especially with a game on the line. Hell in the NBA today if there was 1 second on the clock and down by two, I could think of at least 4 or 5 people I want shooting those FT's before Lebron.

True. I'd rather shoot them myself haha

 

[Natebishop3]

Anyone who voted for LeBron has forgotten what Jordan was like. Go watch some tapes.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Jordan's 3 point percentage obviously indicates that he wouldn't be a good fit with the Blazers.

 

[Denny Crane]

Jordan didn't take many 3's. Even hitting 33% of them will make you a more efficient scorer.

However, Jordan in his 6th year did take a lot of 3's (3/game vs. his usual 1/game) and shot .376. His FG% was astounding for a wing. First six seasons:

.515, .457, .482, .535, .538, .526

Those are PF type %'s.

That said, I do think there's a great argument that LeBron is better at this stage in his career than Jordan was. He singlehandedly took his team to the finals. He's a lot bigger and stronger, but I don't think as dominant. Jordan had about thirty 50 point games, LeBron has 8 so far.

 

[kobe23]

you think jordan would be as dominant if he just entered the league now? or see LBJ go up against BIRD???

you cant compare them... coz of the era's they entered the league in

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Jordan was better at everything. He was a freaking master of the game. Whatever he wanted to do, he did

 

[NJNetz]

Stats don't tell the whole story, anyway.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Stats don't tell the whole story, anyway.

Well they might if better stats were quoted - they aren't pace adjusted, for example. Hard to compare.

Qualitatively, Jordan might be better because I hate him much more

 

[SteelBlaze1]

How long did it take Jordan before he got to the playoffs or the finals? Lebron has already been to both places. I still take Jordan though. He just willed his teams to victory more than anyone else.

 

[BlazersBlood]

Well Lebron was fresh out of high school. Maybe you should take Lebron's last 3 vs. Jordan's first 3.

 

[Wheels]

How long did it take Jordan before he got to the playoffs or the finals? Lebron has already been to both places. I still take Jordan though. He just willed his teams to victory more than anyone else.

how many teams like the Pistons did Lebron have to go through when they went to the finals though? I know you still said you'd take Jordan, but there is a little bit different talent level of the conference from the east back then, to the east when Lebron went to the finals.

 

[Wheels]

Well Lebron was fresh out of high school. Maybe you should take Lebron's last 3 vs. Jordan's first 3.

if you want to go into that then you have to add part of his 4th year cause Jordan only played a few games his 2nd year.

 

[Wheels]

PS Jordan scored more in his first (full) 3 years than Lebron's last 3 years. (even witht the 22 ppg average bringing him down in his injured year)

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

Fuck LeBronze.

 

[Wheels]

Fuck LeBronze.

lol well put.

 

[Minstrel]

I think Jordan and James are very, very similar in caliber. I'd give Jordan the edge on defense through his early career over James, but I think James has been slightly better on offense. Just as dominant a scorer and a slightly better passer. Jordan was a great passer, but James is even better.

The main thing is that Jordan remained at an absurdly high level for so long, even as his athleticism waned slightly. James has essentially matched Jordan's early career, which is amazing, but can he make the transition to mirror what is sometimes called the "Jedi Jordan" stage of Jordan's career...where he used basketball intelligence and modified his game to off-set losses in athleticism. James hasn't yet had to deal with lessened athleticism and that's always a tough transition to make without getting a bit worse.

 

[RR7]

How was Jordan less efficient? Has a better efg% and TS% than lebron does over their first 6 seasons.

I remember during the 88-89 season, Jordan was asked to play PG for a stretch of games. Can't remember now if it was due to an injury to someone else or what, but he ran the point for the Bulls, and had 10 triple doubles in 11 games. He had 7 in a row, and then missed on the 8th game, I believe, because of not enough rebounds, and then another 3 more in a row. He was simply amazing, and could do whatever he wanted on the court.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

lol well put.

lol

I used to like him. Until all this crap he has pulled lately with the playoffs and the Nike dunk tapes. I don't remember Jordan being a prick like that! He was always classy as far as I remember. I was a lot younger in the Jordan era though.

 

[PapaG]

I have to give Jordan the edge, with the deciding factor being he didn't treat the pre-game warm-ups as practice for the local dinner theater amateur night.

 

[Da_O]

I think Jordan and James are very, very similar in caliber. I'd give Jordan the edge on defense through his early career over James, but I think James has been slightly better on offense. Just as dominant a scorer and a slightly better passer. Jordan was a great passer, but James is even better.

I disagree that Lebron has been as dominant a scorer as Jordan. In Jordan's six years he averaged over 30 ppg 4 of those six seasons with his highest average in 86-87 being 37.1!

While Lebron has been dominant, he's been nowhere near the volume score Jordan was. Lebron averaged over 30 ppg only twice during his first six years with his highest average totaling 31.4, which is lower than any of Jordan's 30 ppg seasons during his first six years.

Someone earlier had said that Jordan had up to thirty 50 point games while Lebron has had only eight to this point.

No one in this thread has taken PER into account

Jordan-Lebron
25.8-18.3
27.5-25.7
29.8-28.1
31.7-24.5
31.1-29.1
31.2-31.7

In conclusion, Jordan was the more dominant scorer, better defender, and more efficient player. Lebron is the better passer but remember Jordan was no slouch topping 8.0 assists(which Lebron hasn't done) in 88-89. So I think you have to go with Jordan in this comparison.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

I disagree that Lebron has been as dominant a scorer as Jordan. In Jordan's six years he averaged over 30 ppg 4 of those six seasons with his highest average in 86-87 being 37.1!

While Lebron has been dominant, he's been nowhere near the volume score Jordan was. Lebron averaged over 30 ppg only twice during his first six years with his highest average totaling 31.4, which is lower than any of Jordan's 30 ppg seasons during his first six years.

Someone earlier had said that Jordan had up to thirty 50 point games while Lebron has had only eight to this point.

No one in this thread has taken PER into account

Jordan-Lebron
25.8-18.3
27.5-25.7
29.8-28.1
31.7-24.5
31.1-29.1
31.2-31.7

In conclusion, Jordan was the more dominant scorer, better defender, and more efficient player. Lebron is the better passer but remember Jordan was no slouch topping 8.0 assists(which Lebron hasn't done) in 88-89. So I think you have to go with Jordan in this comparison.

FTW.

 

[Da_O]

lol

I used to like him. Until all this crap he has pulled lately with the playoffs and the Nike dunk tapes. I don't remember Jordan being a prick like that! He was always classy as far as I remember. I was a lot younger in the Jordan era though.

Jordan was a prick to his teammates and cared only about winning.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZU7w5B0aQ1gC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=flaming+[expletive]+jordan&source=bl&ots=XKPBs2oay6&sig=RAe0ECaFeO6WWu89p9HzIE3jWg4&hl=en&ei=D4dzSv7SJ5PQtgP1x_ziCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=flaming%20***got%20jordan&f=false

But he's still the GOAT.

 

[mook]

I disagree that Lebron has been as dominant a scorer as Jordan. In Jordan's six years he averaged over 30 ppg 4 of those six seasons with his highest average in 86-87 being 37.1!

While Lebron has been dominant, he's been nowhere near the volume score Jordan was. Lebron averaged over 30 ppg only twice during his first six years with his highest average totaling 31.4, which is lower than any of Jordan's 30 ppg seasons during his first six years.

Someone earlier had said that Jordan had up to thirty 50 point games while Lebron has had only eight to this point.

No one in this thread has taken PER into account

Jordan-Lebron
25.8-18.3
27.5-25.7
29.8-28.1
31.7-24.5
31.1-29.1
31.2-31.7

In conclusion, Jordan was the more dominant scorer, better defender, and more efficient player. Lebron is the better passer but remember Jordan was no slouch topping 8.0 assists(which Lebron hasn't done) in 88-89. So I think you have to go with Jordan in this comparison.

Nice post.

Yeah, it does seem like LeBron isn't quite matching the greatest NBA player of all time yet. But it's not like LeBron is so far back that he couldn't eventually overtake him. Especially when you consider that Jordan had 4 years of mileage in college too. It's not probable, but it's at least possible.

LeBron seems to be on track for at least the Wilt/Magic/Bird/Russel level of greatness.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

Jordan was a prick to his teammates and cared only about winning.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZU7w5B0aQ1gC&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=flaming+[expletive]+jordan&source=bl&ots=XKPBs2oay6&sig=RAe0ECaFeO6WWu89p9HzIE3jWg4&hl=en&ei=D4dzSv7SJ5PQtgP1x_ziCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v=onepage&q=flaming%20***got%20jordan&f=false

But he's still the GOAT.

Holy cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 What a dick!

 

[BlayZa]

the thing that sets Jordan apart from everyone else is linked to the above ^, and unwavering desire to win at all costs - and the skill set to do it himself if needed.

 

[Minstrel]

I disagree that Lebron has been as dominant a scorer as Jordan. In Jordan's six years he averaged over 30 ppg 4 of those six seasons with his highest average in 86-87 being 37.1!

While Lebron has been dominant, he's been nowhere near the volume score Jordan was. Lebron averaged over 30 ppg only twice during his first six years with his highest average totaling 31.4, which is lower than any of Jordan's 30 ppg seasons during his first six years.

I don't think you can compare raw scoring averages. The pace of games is quite different today from the second half of the '80s and Jordan also dominated the ball more.

Jordan's usage rates for his first six seasons were: 29.8, 38.6, 38.3, 34.1, 32.1, 33.7
Jame's usage rates for his first six seasons were: 28.2, 29.7, 33.6, 31.0, 33.5, 33.8

Three of those seasons, they had similar usage rates, three of those seasons Jordan was significantly to much higher. Overall, Jordan took more of his team's shots in his first six seasons than James did. When you combine that with the pace differences, I think the scoring averages don't tell the story at all.

No one in this thread has taken PER into account

Jordan-Lebron
25.8-18.3
27.5-25.7
29.8-28.1
31.7-24.5
31.1-29.1
31.2-31.7

This is very true, but bear in mind that Jordan started two years older than James. When you compare by age, you get:

Age 21: 25.8 / 28.1
Age 22: 27.5 / 24.5
Age 23: 29.8 / 29.1
Age 24: 31.7 / 31.7

The splits are Jordan / James.

There is no real difference between those sets of PERs. James was significantly better at 21, Jordan was significantly better by almost the same amount at 22, and they were almost identical at ages 23 and 24. I don't think James should be penalized for putting up PERs of 18.3 and 25.7 at ages when Jordan was playing for UNC.

When pace, usage and age are factored into your analysis, they come out pretty equally in terms of production. I'd be willing to give Jordan the edge on defense, but not a large one considering that James has become a mainstream contender for Defensive Player of the Year. I'd agree Jordan has been a bit better, but they're extremely close overall.

 

[Wheels]

Holy cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 What a dick!

that was INTENSE

 

[Eastoff]

you know where lebron got that chalk thing from? Jordan used to fuck with the announcers and clap chalk at them before games.