OT: Magic sign Matt Barnes

[alex42083]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_y...vLYF?slug=aw-barnes072109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

In an aggressive summer of spending, the Orlando Magic have agreed with Matt Barnes(notes) on a two-year, $3.2 million contract, a league source said Monday night.

I'd say the Orlando Magic have had a terrific offseason after letting the idiot Hedo go. And Barnes really came for cheap... I always liked his game.

Vince Carter
Brandon Bass
Matt Barnes
Ryan Anderson
Matched offer sheet to Marcin Gortat

Magic have done a great job, and shown they're willing to spend for a title.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I agree, excellent off season by the Magic.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yes, but they won't grow. Their GM probably doesn;t like his guys.

Barnes wouldn't have helped us, but it's still just amazing to see most every other team go out and try to improve their roster while we get nothing done.

 

[STOMP]

Barnes wouldn't have helped us, but it's still just amazing to see most every other team go out and try to improve their roster while we get nothing done.

Portland didn't lose a starter or main cog like Orlando did and they dealt a decent rookie. I think it's very debatable whether the Magic have improved their roster over last year.

At this point I'd put Portland's chances of improving their record over last year ahead of Orlando's.

STOMP

 

[axs88]

Portland didn't lose a starter or main cog like Orlando did and they dealt a decent rookie. I think it's very debatable whether the Magic have improved their roster over last year.

At this point I'd put Portland's chances of improving their record over last year ahead of Orlando's.

STOMP

How did they not improve?

In terms of value/production (regardless of positions):

Carter > Hedo
R. Anderson = C.Lee
Bass >> Battie
Barnes = Alston

 

[Mediocre Man]

Portland didn't lose a starter or main cog like Orlando did and they dealt a decent rookie. I think it's very debatable whether the Magic have improved their roster over last year.

At this point I'd put Portland's chances of improving their record over last year ahead of Orlando's.

STOMP

They improved a ton, what are you talking about

They lost Hedo, and gained Carter, Bass and Barnes

 

[Tince]

Who was the person on here that said Barnes is as good at Ariza? They must think this is an amazing signing.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

They improved a ton, what are you talking about

They lost Hedo, and gained Carter, Bass and Barnes

They also lost Courtney Lee. Lee is better now and has a better future than both Bass and Barnes.

I agree with Stomp. We havent lost anyone (Frye/Sergio dont count) and we gain Webster and a guy named Oden who should be much more effective.

 

[Mediocre Man]

They also lost Courtney Lee. Lee is better now and has a better future than both Bass and Barnes.

I agree with Stomp. We havent lost anyone (Frye/Sergio dont count) and we gain Webster and a guy named Oden who should be much more effective.

Webster....really....You too BB?


What in the world has Webster done to make people think he is going to help out team so much? Where is he going to play, and who's minutes is he going to take?

Anderson is as good as Lee is I think too.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

^^ I have faith in Webster. If he can stay healthy (big IF), then I think he'll be very effective and help us win a few more games. He'll take Outlaws minutes. He can play better D than Outlaw, rebound MUCH better than Outlaw, and has a much higher bball IQ than Outlaw.

Saying Anderson is as good as Lee is crazier then any of us having faith in Webster. Lee has proven he's a very solid NBA player / starter. Anderson hasnt proven anything... yet.

 

[Mediocre Man]

^^ I have faith in Webster. If he can stay healthy (big IF), then I think he'll be very effective and help us win a few more games. He'll take Outlaws minutes. He can play better D than Outlaw, rebound MUCH better than Outlaw, and has a much higher bball IQ than Outlaw.

Saying Anderson is as good as Lee is crazier then any of us having faith in Webster. Lee has proven he's a very solid NBA player / starter. Anderson hasnt proven anything... yet.

8 pts/1 asst/2 rbnds isn't a very solid NBA player to me, but ok.

Here are the per 36 minute stats of Travis last year, and Martell the year before, when he was healthy. I am not sure why you think Martell is a MUCH better rebounder. Travis, who sucks, also has a higher offensive rating and defensive rating than Webster. I just don't get the love for him. He scored 24 points in a quarter against Utah. That's it.

Rk            Player  Season Age  G GS   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
1      Travis Outlaw 2008-09  24 81  6 2246 6.2 13.6 .453 1.4 3.8 .377 2.8 3.9 .723 1.1 4.2 5.3 1.3 0.8 0.9 1.5 2.7 16.6
2    Martell Webster 2007-08  21 75 70 2132 4.7 11.1 .422 2.1 5.4 .388 2.1 2.8 .735 0.9 4.1 5.0 1.5 0.7 0.5 1.4 2.7 13.5

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Outlaw is 3 years older and has a ton more NBA experience. Give Martell 3 healthy years of NBA action and he'll put up better #'s than Travis, IMO.

 

[RR7]

So Matt barnes improves their roster, but Martell can't help out ours? Ok.

Damn, look how green that grass is. Pretty.

 

[Idog1976]

The magic are in win now mode. The Blazers are in win when it's convenient to Vulcan's bottom line mode...Just kidding. sort of. I mean the Bass signing is pretty sweet I gotta say.

 

[BalancedMan]

Magic:

Nelson/Johnson/Lue
Pietrus/Reddick
Carter/Barnes
Lewis/Anderson/Bass
Howard/Gortat

Honestly that's not a bad lineup at all. I would be a bit concerned because now they're a bit too front-loaded in the front court with Howard/Gortat/Bass all being interior players. Orlando worked due to the pick-and-roll and because they had 4-three point shooters on the floor at all times (which made it impossible to double Howard), although they did use Howard and Gortat together for stretches in the playoffs. Now, when that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see lineups where Carter slides to the 2, Lewis to the 3 and then perhaps Bass at the 4 with Howard/Gortat at the 5.

But given his production in the playoffs, Orlando clearly feels that Pietrus is ready to be a starter (he was originally last year before he got hurt anyways). They get a good backup in Anderson who plays a similar role to Lewis (and they could play together). And Barnes is a great signing. He's a decent defender and can hit the open 3, which is what made him effective in Golden State and Phoenix. If Carter or Pietrus get hurt, Barnes can step up and play the spot-starter role very easily in my mind.

The advantage is that they're very versatile, with many players who can play both wing positions (SG, SF = Carter, Pietrus) or can play the SF and PF (Lewis, Anderson, Barnes). Add that with their solid bigs and good performance from Nelson, and you can see why they are expected to have another very good year ahead.

I think they've probably had the best off-season, in my opinion. Especially considering they lost Hedo to FA and yet have made moves to bolster their bench and remain extremely competitive.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So Matt barnes improves their roster, but Martell can't help out ours? Ok.

Damn, look how green that grass is. Pretty.

Martell has no spot on this team. that's the difference. Batum and Outlaw are both equal to if not better than Martell is right now. Cunningham showed that he has decent promise as well. Webster's career averages have stayed all but flat his first three years.

The reason he helps them more is because he fills a needs. He is also a much better passer, defender and rebounder than Martell is.

 

[DennisRodman]

Who was the person on here that said Barnes is as good at Ariza? They must think this is an amazing signing.

It is an excellent signing. They are different players, but to get Barnes for that cheap, definitely an excellent addition.

 

[RR7]

The magic have two PFs in Bass and Anderson, which likely slides Rashard Lewis to SF, Vince Carter to SG, Pietrus backing them both up, as well as JJ Reddick. So there isn't really a spot for him there either. They have the same minutes crunch that we would, if not more. So again, I don't see where he is a big help to their roster, and it's a laughable position to think Martell will help us at all.

 

[Mediocre Man]

and it's a laughable position to think Martell will help us at all.

This we agree on

I know it was a typo. Sure Martell will help us, but the people in here saying we don't need an upgrade because we have Martell coming back need their heads examined.

 

[Tince]

It is an excellent signing. They are different players, but to get Barnes for that cheap, definitely an excellent addition.

I never said it was a bad signing.

 

[STOMP]

They improved a ton, what are you talking about

I don't think so and I'm fine with being on the opposite side of an opinion from you. I'd rate the Blazers chances for internal improvement from their young roster to easily exceed the Magic's mishmosh of moves.

They lost Hedo, and gained Carter, Bass and Barnes

they also lost Lee and Alston. Bass looks to be a poor fit beside DH as neither has game away from the hoop and Barnes is meh...

It's easy to confuse activity with progress. Their greatest potential for improvement hinges on Howard hitting his Free Throws.

STOMP

 

[BrianFromWA]

STOMP, I know there was a 4 page thread on this earlier, but what gives you the warm fuzzy that Bayless and Batum (I don't have an issue with counting on Oden improvement) will get better with summer work and ~15mpg, when Sergio didn't improve much in 3 years, Jack and Telfair didn't improve much is a far greater amount of minutes, and we've seen minimal improvement from Outlaw and Webster with starter's minutes (if not position) over the last couple of years?

I submit that Roy and LMA's improvement (as well as solid play from Joel and Blake, to some extent) was a far greater impact on our 21-to-54 than anything that Jack, Telfair, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Khryapa, (all young guys at the 1 and 3 picked b/w 6 and 30 on Nate's watch) did to improve. I count Oden in that "high lottery talent--expect to improve a ton" category, but not necessarily Bayless or Batum or Rudy. What gives you that optimism that the "young roster" will improve more than talented, proven players playing they way they have (I'm not necessarily including Barnes in this comment--VC and Bass)?

 

[Masbee]

Magic:

Nelson/Johnson/Lue
Pietrus/Reddick
Carter/Barnes
Lewis/Anderson/Bass
Howard/Gortat

I would go like this:

Nelson
Carter
Lewis
Bass
Howard

 

[Mediocre Man]

I would go like this:

Nelson
Carter
Lewis
Bass
Howard

Yes, Carter is a SG, who can play the 3

Nelson/Johnson/Lue
Carter/Pietrus/Reddick
Lewis/Barnes
Bass/Anderson
Howard/Gortat

Nice off season, but they still need to add a big I think. Although Lewis showed he can play there in that offense, and Bass could play the 4 if need be for short stretches

 

[axs88]

I don't think so and I'm fine with being on the opposite side of an opinion from you. I'd rate the Blazers chances for internal improvement from their young roster to easily exceed the Magic's mishmosh of moves.

they also lost Lee and Alston. Bass looks to be a poor fit beside DH as neither has game away from the hoop and Barnes is meh...

It's easy to confuse activity with progress. Their greatest potential for improvement hinges on Howard hitting his Free Throws.

STOMP

If Barnes is meh, Alston is just the same. Bass can stick the midrange jumper (59% of his shots). They also received Ryan Anderson who is arguably a better prospect than Lee (3 years younger and +4 PER despite shooting bad).

I'm not crying about Portland not making any moves (yet). But to discredit what the Magic have done this offseason just to make the Blazers inactivity look less unimpressive is laughable. Activity without progress is what Toronto did, not the Magic.

 

[alex42083]

It could certainly be a case that the Magic ruined their chemistry, but you can't fault them for trying to win and bring in some real talent at some good cheap deals.

Losing Hedo hurt.. but Courtney Lee is not irreplaceable by any means like they traded some big up-and-coming star. And who cares about Alston, the guy played no D and they got their All-Star PG in Nelson back, along with a vet like Johnson to back him up.

Orlando is still a Top 2-3 team in the East, and could easily see themselves back in the NBA Finals. I like their moves.

 

[STOMP]

STOMP, I know there was a 4 page thread on this earlier, but what gives you the warm fuzzy that Bayless and Batum (I don't have an issue with counting on Oden improvement) will get better with summer work and ~15mpg, when Sergio didn't improve much in 3 years, Jack and Telfair didn't improve much is a far greater amount of minutes, and we've seen minimal improvement from Outlaw and Webster with starter's minutes (if not position) over the last couple of years?

I submit that Roy and LMA's improvement (as well as solid play from Joel and Blake, to some extent) was a far greater impact on our 21-to-54 than anything that Jack, Telfair, Sergio, Webster, Outlaw, Khryapa, (all young guys at the 1 and 3 picked b/w 6 and 30 on Nate's watch) did to improve. I count Oden in that "high lottery talent--expect to improve a ton" category, but not necessarily Bayless or Batum or Rudy. What gives you that optimism that the "young roster" will improve more than talented, proven players playing they way they have (I'm not necessarily including Barnes in this comment--VC and Bass)?

it seems you're just relisting your views from that thread... mine haven't changed either and don't want to spend that much time avoiding work rewording the same views.

Basically I never thought much about the talent level of the guys you listed as examples of failures to improve. Rudy and Batum were already better as rooks then any of those guys. I think much more of Greg, Roy, LA, Rudy, and Batum as talents and feel they've got more to tap into. I don't think any of those guys have plateaued.

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

If Barnes is meh, Alston is just the same. Bass can stick the midrange jumper (59% of his shots). They also received Ryan Anderson who is arguably a better prospect than Lee (3 years younger and +4 PER despite shooting bad).

I'm not crying about Portland not making any moves (yet). But to discredit what the Magic have done this offseason just to make the Blazers inactivity look less unimpressive is laughable. Activity without progress is what Toronto did, not the Magic.

laugh all you want today... I'm not impressed. Hopefully both teams will enjoy a healthy season and we'll truly be able to judge which team improves their record the most. The Magic's ability to spread teams out took a significant hit with the loss of Hedo... teams will be able to keep both Bigs inside to help on Howard much more then before. And feel free to add Bass to the mehs... 6'6 PFs are usually backups for a reason.

one question for you funny man... since you listed some ages of prospects, why did you fail to mention the ages of the prime time time guy they lost compared to the guy they added? 33 is not exactly on the upswing for an NBA SG.

STOMP