OT: more proof that anyone can be a scout

[Rastapopoulos]

"Scout's take" on the whole Kobe vs. Lebron thing:

One Eastern Conference scout said there's no comparison between Bryant and James, noting the difference in how they perform in the clutch. Bryant has numerous game-winners, while James has a handful.

"Kobe is a killer, and to be that, you must be selfish," the scout said. "Kobe has a level of arrogance that he doesn't give a (darn) what anyone thinks. LeBron has always had to share, ever since his childhood. It's not in him to be selfish."

"Whatever that 'it' is, Kobe has it and LeBron doesn't yet. (James) can get to a point where he's dangerous, but to Kobe's level? I don't think so."

Their approaches with teammates vary as well. Michael Jordan, the player both are compared to, inspired his teammates because they admired him. Bryant, although he has talented teammates in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom, makes them bring their "A" game every night.

"They fear Bryant, but it's a fear born out of respect," the scout said.

James doesn't appear to have that force of personality, or that effect on his team. The scout went as far as to say James might need another great player besides him, as opposed to a bunch of role players.

Not only is this a huge steaming pile of horseshit, that whole stuff about "clutch" has been conclusively debunked.

Here's the test for you: swap Bryant for James. James gets Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Phil Jackson (et al), and Bryant gets Big Z, Big Cactus and Mike Brown. Anyone care to suggest that the Cavs will do better and the Lakers worse?

(I'll tell you one thing: Phil Jackson would be ECSTATIC.)

 

[MrJayremmie]

As an overall player, there is noone better than LeBron in the game right now.

 

[RR7]

If they were the same age, I'd take Kobe right now over Lebron.

 

[Nikolokolus]

And what is that bullshit about Jordan's teammates "admiring" him? He was an unholy terror and absolutely abused his teammates, there are tons of stories about them being absolutely ground in to dust by Jordan.

 

[Wheels]

If they were the same age, I'd take Kobe right now over Lebron.

age being a factor if I'm starting a franchise.. yeah Lebron for the future. But for now and the next couple years probably I take Kobe 15 times out of 10.

 

[Kaydow]

Hmmm. James "might need another great player besides him, as opposed to a bunch of role players."

How did Kobe do after Shaq left and before Gasol appeared and Bynum developed?

I honestly would flip a coin and take either. Kobe is the best closer since MJ, but Labron does so many things on the floor Kobe doesn't. Kobe is a better shooter, Labron is a better defender (he's Scottie Pippen on steroids defensively) They aren't the 1st and 2nd best players in the league, they are 1A and 1B IMO.

 

[RR7]

I think Lebron's defense is over rated by him being allowed to use his size to do stuff that would normally be called a foul. He bodies up a lto of people, which I know is generally the proper technique over using your hands, but he gets beat just as often as Kobe does, just that he's allowed to slam himself into, say, Roy and not worry about a call.

Age is obviously a large factor. It's also why, if it was thrown out, I would take Kobe. His experience has added elements to his game that come with time. Elements Lebron is able to gain as well with continud work.

 

[MrJayremmie]

What is interesting is that other than jump shots, usually the main reason people take Kobe over LeBron is his "Killer Instinct". To be honest, he is a good closer, but he isn't anything very special. He has hit a ton of game winners, but I think it is more because he has taken so many. His % is pretty damn low, Brandon Roy has a much higher %, as does LeBron (I remember these stats from a post here last year).

LeBron's overall defense, from man to man, to help, to blocking shots, is better than Kobe's in my opinion (2nd in DPOY voting last year, and has been on 1st team all-D for a couple of years I think). LeBron's passing is better. LeBron's rebounding is better. I also believe LeBron is a better scorer, as his PPG have indicated over the past couple years. At the same time, if we are talking pure scoring, i'd take Kobe over LeBron because his shooting and his undeniable skill on the offensive side of the ball, but as for just getting the ball through the hoop in any way, it is hard to say Kobe has a major lead on LeBron in that category.

Bron is also more athletic, fast, and strong.

As for the intangibles like clutch, leadership, etc... I think LeBron is every bit as good. He beat out Kobe in 4th quarter points the last couple of years I believe, has a higher % of made game winners (I believe -- don't quote me), and has actually had a lot of playoff success with not the greatest team around him. His playoff performances, like the 45 point game vs. Boston in game 7, or that incredible game vs. Detroit in Game 6 are amazing as well.

So my belief is that LeBron is the better player of the two, even though he is about 7 years younger! Kobe hasn't had very much success without an extremely good team around him.

My $.02

 

[Minstrel]

I think Kobe is a phenomenal player. He's been one of my favourite non-Blazers for a decade. But I think LeBron James and Michael Jordan are the two best players of my lifetime. I think both Bryant's and James' defense have been overrated a bit due to their offensive stardom...an amazing offensive performer who also plays at least competent defense often has his defense overrated relative to an offensive schlub who plays the same level of defense. But they are both solid and able to be great on defense for short stretches.

James, though, is the most unique mixture of power and speed I've ever seen in the NBA. He can play on the wing and blow past virtually any wing defending him, or he can play in the post and muscle up even against power forwards.

I've never bought the "clutch" argument, for any player. I've seen it debunked by statistical analysis, in both baseball and basketball, too many times.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Bryant is a poor man's Jordan. There have been hundreds of players of his body type and athleticism (if not his scoring skills). James is unique. The closest would be a cross between Charles Barkley and Scottie Pippen, only with better passing skills than either.

 

[RR7]

Who cares about unique body type. Yao has a unique body type. There are hundreds of people with a similar body as Olajuwon. I'd still take Olajuwon 10 times out of 10.

 

[jlprk]

The point he was making is that if you have 2 equal players (i.e. Bryant and James, not Yao and Olajuwon), a way to decide who's harder to replace is to pick the one who is more unique.

 

[DaRizzle]

Oh...is THIS thread the end all be all on the subject...oh, ok