OT: NBA Officially Cracking Down On Flops

[NOVoodoo]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8433232/nba-finalizing-procedures-penalize-players-flopping

ELIZABETH, N.J. -- The NBA is about to act in hopes of stopping the floppers.

Spokesman Tim Frank said Thursday the league is finalizing procedures to deal with flopping, the art of falling down when little or no contact was made in an effort to trick referees into calling a foul.

Amen!

In other news, Chris Paul and Blake Griffin have applied for jobs at Burger King.

 

[MickZagger]

I thought they said that last year they were going to start calling T's on blatant floppers.

 

[julius]

Awww, why is the NBA picking on Adam Morrison?

 

[BBert]

Penalize the floppers? OK. How about penalizing the refs for calling obvious flops, while we're at it? Then maybe we can move onto penalizing the refs for blatant star treatment. Yeah, I must be drunk.

 

[mobes23]

I think they're going to need to make flopping an infraction to make it stop...maybe make it a technical or something.

 

[dviss1]

For those of you who don't know I am a HS Varsity referee (I also do some D3 and am working my way up).

In the rule book Faking being fouled is a technical foul. However, it is one rule that is almost never applied. The easiest way to combat the the flop is by the ref (1st of all) not being fooled by it. 2nd, DON'T CALL ANYTHING.... I've seen people flop all over the floor, Offensively and Defensively, and I tell them "You might get that call if you quit flopping". If a Defensive guy flops and then looks at me for a call, I tell his ass to "get up and stop flopping". As soon as a flop happens I address it with the player who thinks he should be getting a call.

There are 2 questions you ask yourself on almost every foul call and definitely any Block/Charge call.

1. Is the Defender a legal guarding defender (both feet facing the offense while owning your spot on the floor. One's feet can be moving and they do not need to be set.)

If the answer to this is no, the foul is ALWAYS on the Defense. If the answer is yes, you ask a 2nd question:

2. Did the offensive player go TO & THROUGH the Defense.

If the answer is no, you may have a no call (I air on the side of letting the players play) If the answer to this is yes than you have a charge.
BOTH questions need a positive answer before you come up with a charge.

All of this questioning and decision making needs to happen in split seconds. Bottom line:

Refs need to recognize WTF a fucking flop actually is! And when it happens they tell the player to get his/her ass up and stop flopping and that if it continues you will assess a Technical Foul for faking being fouled.

It's really that simple.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

It's about time!

 

[dviss1]

This is what they are doing??

"The procedures likely will involve a postgame review of the play by the league office, rather than an official calling an infraction during the game, Frank said.

Players likely would be fined if the league determined they flopped."

Just leave it to David Stern to find a revenue stream in the guise of "cracking down on flopping"... More like...

 

[mook]

Sounds pretty weak. Rasheed Wallace was happy paying a ridiculous number of fines just to vent his temper. Similarly, I suspect floppers are going to be happy to pay 5% of their income in fees just to ensure they continue receiving the other 95% of their income stream.

I think dviss1 has a better solution. Ignore the flops. I'd add that I'd hold guys who have a reputation for flopping to a higher standard. If you blow a whistle on a call that might be a 50:50 call, and you look on the floor and realize it's Ginobili, you shrug and say, "My bad, no foul. Inadvertent whistle." If the 50:50 play happens during a shot and the shot goes in, score it. Otherwise, give the offense back the ball and put 14 on the clock. Players will quickly learn that flopping actually hurts the team, because it makes guys like Ginobili less effective defenders.

Refs manage by reputation all the time in the NBA. I mostly hate it. But if the system exists, we might as well use it for good purposes.

 

[dviss1]

Sounds pretty weak. Rasheed Wallace was happy paying a ridiculous number of fines just to vent his temper. Similarly, I suspect floppers are going to be happy to pay 5% of their income in fees just to ensure they continue receiving the other 95% of their income stream.

I think dviss1 has a better solution. Ignore the flops. I'd add that I'd hold guys who have a reputation for flopping to a higher standard. If you blow a whistle on a call that might be a 50:50 call, and you look on the floor and realize it's Ginobili, you shrug and say, "My bad, no foul. Inadvertent whistle." Give the offense back the ball and put 14 on the clock. Players will quickly learn that flopping actually hurts the team, because it makes guys like Ginobili less effective defenders.

There is absolutely no way you can call an inadvertent whistle on a foul. You either see a foul or you don't. The bottom line is this:

The players are going to do WHATEVER the refs allow. If the refs don't give a call when a player flops, it puts players out of defensive position.
If you are out of defensive position, the offense scores. The coach gets upset and reiterates what the ref has already told you:

GET YOUR ASS UP AND STOP FLOPPING.

The players will adjust to the reffing and coaching.

SIMPLE.....

 

[dviss1]

The only thing that needs to change is the way the game is officiated. Refs need to stop being spectators (Leon Wood)
and actually ref the game. Get in position to get an "open look" at the play (a look between offensive and defensive player
to determine who is creating contact). Referee the defense 1st. This is not happening. If this is done it is easy to see who
creates contact and who is flopping.

I think I'm a ref who can easily see the difference between a flop and actual contact. I'm also the ref who will tell you
"get up and stop flopping".

So if your kid plays in HS in Portland, and He/she's a flopper, I will tell your kid "flopping is soft" or
"you won't get that call flopping like a fish, so get up".

Moral of the story, teach your kids not to flop. It's a lie plain and simple.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

i think it might end up being techs assessed after the fact, and that would lead to suspensions.

at least they are headed in the right direction, nobody wants to be called out as being a flopper

 

[dviss1]

i think it might end up being techs assessed after the fact, and that would lead to suspensions.

at least they are headed in the right direction, nobody wants to be called out as being a flopper

See I think they are doing the exact opposite of what they need to be doing.

The simplest way to stop people from flopping is NOT to penalize it. NOT to fine people retroactively for it.... (shakes head)

It's to STOP rewarding it! If a player knows he/she ain't gonna get anything out of flopping except to get scored on and a seat on the bench, he/she ain't gonna flop!

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I thought they said that last year they were going to start calling T's on blatant floppers.

And the year before that.

And the year before that.

And the year before that.

And the year before that.

There's only one way to eliminate flopping. The NBA reviews all games. If a player flops, they miss a game.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Moral of the story, teach your kids not to flop.

Easy words to say, but the fact remains it's taught at every level and is the mainstay of Euro basketball.

 

[dviss1]

Easy words to say, but the fact remains it's taught at every level and is the mainstay of Euro basketball.

I guess you didn't read this:

"The simplest way to stop people from flopping is NOT to penalize it. NOT to fine people retroactively for it.... (shakes head)

It's to STOP rewarding it! If a player knows he/she ain't gonna get anything out of flopping except to get scored on and a seat on the bench, he/she ain't gonna flop!"

 

[mook]

There's only one way to eliminate flopping. The NBA reviews all games. If a player flops, they miss a game.

I'd be up for that. First time LeBron sits, though, there will be a shitstorm. But sometimes shitstorms can be healthy.

Well, not literally.

 

[dviss1]

There's only one way to eliminate flopping. The NBA reviews all games. If a player flops, they miss a game.

This will never happen so why advocate it? It's far too radical of an idea when the solution is plain and simple:

Refs need to STOP rewarding the flop. If a player flops let his ass go down and deal with the consequences of his fish flopping. If the ball goes out of bounds blow the whistle. Out of bounds off the guy (chris paul) who just flopped with it. If the offensive player gains an advantage from a defensive flop, there is NO need to even ACKNOWLEDGE the flop. Let his soft ass go down. And when the Offensive guy/gal scores, say NOTHING to the flopper unless he/she asks you a question (which they will). What's the answer to whatever STUPID (because it is stupid. you know you flopped) question they have?

YOU FLOPPED. STOP FLOPPING. (If they keep arguing THAT'S when you T em')

I'll bet, if they don't get a whistle from flopping all over the place that they won't do it anymore. The reason why they are doing it is because the ref isn't doing a good enough job to know the difference between a flop and actual contact that disrupts a players rhythm, balance, speed, or quickness.

So, the fix lies in more training for the refs. The Refs need to simply design a camp (this is done all the time) that simply addresses how best to determine the difference between a flop and real contact. Then they need to police it by ignoring the flopper and NOT rewarding them.

 

[dviss1]

The long and short of it is this:

The refs dictate how the game is played. Whether or not the game is free flowing and fluid largely depends on
how tight the refs are calling it. If the ref is blowing his whistle every time there's a flop this also stops the game
from being as fluid as it can be. The refs calling the flops are NOT having a patient whistle. They are guessing
and this needs to stop. Focusing on the difference between a flop and actual contact is no one else's job but the ref's.
And if the referee is constantly rewarding a guy for lying to him that ref is not doing a good job. (The NBA will never tell you this)

 

[Natebishop3]

It will be just like anything else. They won't call it on the stars, it will continue to effect games, and all you'll get after the fact is an apology after the game that the flop happened and maybe a fine for the offending player. If you want to start really stopping that shit, take away wins from teams that are caught flopping multiple times in a game. Five flops and you forfeit. BOOM! That shit will stop.

 

[crandc]

NateBishop, you took the words right out of my mouth, er, fingers. You really think they'll call a T on Kobe Bryant? No flipping way, they'll call it on A_am Morrison or some rookie. Then Stern will say, see, we are cracking down of floppers!

 

[handiman]

I think I'm a ref who can easily see the difference between a flop and actual contact.

I don't doubt your effort or ability, but until you ref at the NBA level, I don't think you have any more insight than the rest of us about how tough some of these calls are to make at professional game speed. Many of the LeBron/Wade head jerks look like legit fouls until watching them on slow-mo. It may sound lame that the NBA is proposing a post-game analysis approach, but that's really the only way to decide on a lot of the calls. No one wants full instant replay in-game.

 

[noknobs]

Figures, as soon as the Blazers bring in a bunch of Euros they go and do this...

 

[Ed O]

This will never happen so why advocate it? It's far too radical of an idea when the solution is plain and simple:

Refs need to STOP rewarding the flop.

Refs aren't intentionally rewarding flops. They're calling the game to the best of their ability. If they stop calling all flops, then they will ALSO miss lots of plays where people get elbows to the throats and shoulders to the teeth.

I don't think it's realistic to tell refs "be better at your job" and expect things to get better. I'd guess they already do that and HAVE done it.

Presumably any post-game review of flops will be used as learning opportunities for refs and tracking of ref efficacy (which refs keep getting fooled?) as well as punishing floppers by hitting them in the pocketbook.

Ed O.

 

[dviss1]

I don't doubt your effort or ability, but until you ref at the NBA level, I don't think you have any more insight than the rest of us about how tough some of these calls are to make at professional game speed. Many of the LeBron/Wade head jerks look like legit fouls until watching them on slow-mo. It may sound lame that the NBA is proposing a post-game analysis approach, but that's really the only way to decide on a lot of the calls. No one wants full instant replay in-game.

You honestly don't know how many NBA/college players I've reffed. I don't like to drop names but it's pretty easy to get an open look. For someone who it sounds like has never reffed a game in his life, you may not understand.

And no one is advocating for that straw man of an argument. Real time it's easy to see if someone flops. You just don't know what to look for.

 

[dviss1]

Refs aren't intentionally rewarding flops. They're calling the game to the best of their ability. If they stop calling all flops, then they will ALSO miss lots of plays where people get elbows to the throats and shoulders to the teeth.

I don't think it's realistic to tell refs "be better at your job" and expect things to get better. I'd guess they already do that and HAVE done it.

Presumably any post-game review of flops will be used as learning opportunities for refs and tracking of ref efficacy (which refs keep getting fooled?) as well as punishing floppers by hitting them in the pocketbook.

Ed O.

They are not calling games to their best ability. They are being lazy. When you have 3 refs on the floor it's pretty easy to make sure you watch the competitive matchup in you area.

When Tyson chandler gets ejected in the clip below it's because Leon wood was looking at the top of the key at the ballhandler and NOT at his competitive matchup which is RIGHT in front of him. NBA refs are lazy. And it takes a ref to know that they are. If you are just a fan and don't even know the Primary Areas of Responsibility that an official has to watch then you don't know what they're looking at or why they are calling calls out of their area. Bottom line is NBA refs are lazy and it is not nearly as good as college officiating.

[video=youtube;ibE8wylk-cw]

 

[dviss1]

punishing floppers by hitting them in the pocketbook.

Ed O.

Do you really think this is going to deter the 16MM dollar man Chris Paul from Flopping in the finals to help give him an edge?

Nope. He's gonna flop no matter how much you fine him. Refs know how to stop this. But NBA refs are lazy.

 

[handiman]

You honestly don't know how many NBA/college players I've reffed. I don't like to drop names but it's pretty easy to get an open look. For someone who it sounds like has never reffed a game in his life, you may not understand.

And no one is advocating for that straw man of an argument. Real time it's easy to see if someone flops. You just don't know what to look for.

I'm not trying to offend you, but you're digging yourself into a corner. Take a deep breath and revisit what people have said... So what if you've reffed a few NBA and college players here and there? That has nothing to do with reffing NBA game speed. Until you've done that, you have no basis for saying that it's easy to catch all the flops. Just armchair quarterbacking like the rest of us.

 

[dviss1]

I'm not trying to offend you, but you're digging yourself into a corner. Take a deep breath and revisit what people have said... So what if you've reffed a few NBA and college players here and there? That has nothing to do with reffing NBA game speed. Until you've done that, you have no basis for saying that it's easy to catch all the flops. Just armchair quarterbacking like the rest of us.

Again, you've never reffed a game in your life. I ref about 100+ per year. So again I'm sure I have more insight than you ever will. Just sayin.

 

[handiman]

Again, you've never reffed a game in your life. I ref about 100+ per year. So again I'm sure I have more insight than you ever will. Just sayin.

Ok, since you want to be stubborn about it... How about a quick look at the NFL? All those replacement refs were even more qualified than you to step up a [big] level, having worked the smallish conferences. Guess what, they were shit at the NFL level, because they couldn't handle the game speed of having everyone that big, fast, and strong, and having to make decisions that much faster. Like you, they probably felt it was little different than what they had already experienced. They were flat out wrong.

No one likes a cocky ref.