OT - Nets sign Jason Collins.

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rasheedfan2005 said:
It was funny, one should be able to laugh at self.
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Sure if Jason came out with that scouting report it would be hilarious, he did not, instead it came off as a cheap shot at his sexuality. Still it is nice to seem him back in the NBA.
 
I must have missed the articles announcing the first gay Personnel Manager, first gay convenience store owner, first gay pool hustler, first gay message board moderator, first gay rock collector...hey, who was the first gay message board owner?
 
People forget that this is not such new news. Billy Jean King, Martina Navitrilova and Arthur Ashe all came out as pro tennis players decades ago. Arthur Ashe died of immune deficiency disorder and has a stadium named after him at the US open. Roman and Greek Olympians were openly gay before we were a country in the US. I'm glad Jason Collins got a roster spot but it's not because of his sexual preference. He's 7ft tall and shut down DHoward in a playoff series when he played for the Hawks. That's why he got signed. I'm pro choice but this is getting ink for the wrong reason in my opinion.
 
riverman said:
People forget that this is not such new news. Billy Jean King, Martina Navitrilova and Arthur Ashe all came out as pro tennis players decades ago. Arthur Ashe died of immune deficiency disorder and has a stadium named after him at the US open. Roman and Greek Olympians were openly gay before we were a country in the US. I'm glad Jason Collins got a roster spot but it's not because of his sexual preference. He's 7ft tall and shut down DHoward in a playoff series when he played for the Hawks. That's why he got signed. I'm pro choice but this is getting ink for the wrong reason in my opinion.
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Arthur Ashe wasn't gay. He received his illness via a drug transfusion that had HIV in it. It's one of the reasons blood is now tested for not only AIDS, but also hepatitis.
 
PapaG said:
Arthur Ashe wasn't gay. He received his illness via a drug transfusion that had HIV in it. It's one of the reasons blood is now tested for not only AIDS, but also hepatitis.
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Arthur Ashe was gay or actually bisexual and in the closet for most of his career. He came out when he was ill. He was also married. Either that or the documentary I watched about him was totally falsified so that's a possibilty. Point is there have been openly gay athletes before Jason Collins. The WNBA has had many as well.None of these things should detract from Jason Collins taking the steps he took and representing his lifestyle with dignity.
 
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PapaG said:
Arthur Ashe wasn't gay. He received his illness via a drug transfusion that had HIV in it. It's one of the reasons blood is now tested for not only AIDS, but also hepatitis.
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I have played tennis most of my adult life and he was an inspiration. I believe hepititus is usually a result of the immune system failing. Whatever it was, it opened awareness and you're right that it stimulated testing.
 
jlprk said:
In the 70s Dave Kopay was famous for announcing he was gay right after he retired from the NFL. Various gay people have been famous my whole life. Liberace was on TV all the time in the 50s. Here's a long list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LGBT_sportspeople
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Thanks for posting that link jlprk! I surprised Johnny Weir and a bunch of figure skaters aren't on the list as well though.
 
PapaG said:
That shows that a fan pulled from the stands could have a +8 in any given short stretch. He was probably nervous, and hasn't played this year, but he's been a bad NBA player for years. You can't teach size, though.
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You didn't watch the game. He played his role perfectly. You can't measure it with PER.
 
PapaG said:
Jason Collins has a PER of -12 after his first game, and WS/48 of -0.250.
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Does PER keep track of screens set or charges taken? Does it keep track of defense? Those are the things Collins does well. Could a fan from the stands do that? Don't think so. It's not a coincidence that the team was a +8 with him out there.
 
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PapaG said:
The Nets are also undefeated in games I've played in this year.
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Not true, to be "undefeated IN GAMES PLAYED," you would have to have actually played IN GAMES. Your logic is off.
 
KingSpeed said:
Does PER keep track of screens set or charges taken? Does it keep track of defense? Those at the things Collins does well. Could a fan from the stands do that? Don't think so. It's not a coincidence that the team was a +8 with him out there.
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Very well said KS! I wanted to sign him this season, wasn't a popular opinion at the time. He's a master at setting screens and those guys never get recognized for the defensive skillset it takes to do that
 
I am glad that gay athletes are starting to come out. It's been widely assumed of a huge number of female athletes which for some reason has never really seem discriminatory. I don't think guys typically are as sensitive about locker room issues as a lot of people try to imply. To me the flaw in this whole thing was Jason's timing. From a skill standpoint he was done and a free agent. So it gave a lot of homophobes the false ammunition that he wouldn't be signed due to acceptance in the locker room and his sexual orientation. It also gave pro gay rights people false ammunition that he was being discriminated against. It's almost like a person saying the weren't let into a movie theater because of their hair color when really it's because the show was sold out. We need to just accept people.
 
riverman said:
Very well said KS! I wanted to sign him this season, wasn't a popular opinion at the time. He's a master at setting screens and those guys never get recognized for the defensive skillset it takes to do that
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He would've been a great pickup for us this week. Would love to have him backing up Lopez. He also has Finals experience.
 
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Schilly said:
I am glad that gay athletes are starting to come out. It's been widely assumed of a huge number of female athletes which for some reason has never really seem discriminatory. I don't think guys typically are as sensitive about locker room issues as a lot of people try to imply. To me the flaw in this whole thing was Jason's timing. From a skill standpoint he was done and a free agent.
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He wasn't done. He is a true seven footer who is still a very good defender. He was very effective last night.
 
KingSpeed said:
He wasn't done. He is a true seven footer who is still a very good defender. He was very effective last night.
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Several commentators were impressed with his fitness level and athleticism after such a long layoff, he's a smart player. Knows the game well.
 
He's only played 70 games the last 3 seasons and typically a PER of about 3. Good defender not great.
 
Which is the point I was making. Collins being gay has nothing to do with his contract status, nor should it.
 
riverman said:
Arthur Ashe was gay or actually bisexual and in the closet for most of his career. He came out when he was ill. He was also married. Either that or the documentary I watched about him was totally falsified so that's a possibilty. Point is there have been openly gay athletes before Jason Collins. The WNBA has had many as well.None of these things should detract from Jason Collins taking the steps he took and representing his lifestyle with dignity.
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So you're outing Arthur Ashe? I don't give a crap about a documentary. Ashe was a great man and an inspiration to many, but he never, ever came out as being a homosexual. If you want him to be gay, that's on you. I don't care if he was gay or straight, but you're making claims that aren't supported by the man's own words.
 
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riverman said:
Wow, I learned something about tennis I wasn't aware of..way cool! I knew of some of his records but nothing of his personal history. Good work!
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Like millions of people over the course of history, he died from the stress the legal system put on him. The FBI was the national morals police then. The more subtle way now is to create a manhater class to police the nation's morals.
 
KingSpeed said:
Does PER keep track of screens set or charges taken? Does it keep track of defense? Those are the things Collins does well. Could a fan from the stands do that? Don't think so. It's not a coincidence that the team was a +8 with him out there.
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The only reason you're arguing that Collins is even a bad NBA player is because he's gay. If he hadn't have come out, you wouldn't be posting about him and his -12 PER.
 
I think it was a brilliant PR move by the Russian owner of the Nets to not only give Collins a 10-day deal, but also play him. Their team is going to be shit for a few years, and it pokes a stick in Putin's eye in a liberal NYC. If he's signed for the rest of the season, I'll believe it wasn't a PR stunt to get attention to a struggling team overloaded with bad contracts.
 
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