OT: New Look Knicks Dominating Heat

[KingSpeed]

Randolph playing well. Go Zach!

 

[Entity]

I'm splitting between that game and Jarrett Jack on Indiana right now. League Pass Broadband is pretty sweet. I'm also watching OKC get blown out.

 

[KingSpeed]

Durant is a bust.

 

[KingSpeed]

The real star from last year's draft is Yi. He kicked ass tonight. I think the Nets will surprise some people.

 

[Entity]

Close game between Sacto and Minny... not that anybody cares.

 

[CelticKing]

I predicted before the season that the Knicks would win more games then the Nets. I guess we'll find out in a few months.

 

[MickZagger]

Knicks look good. A lot of their players are going to thrive under D'Antoni's system. Heck, I think even Randolph can be very productive player under that system.

 

[Ed O]

Knicks look good. A lot of their players are going to thrive under D'Antoni's system. Heck, I think even Randolph can be very productive player under that system.

Zach is a productive player under any system.

The Knicks couldn't really put away the Heat, though, like they should have... and the Heat are pretty darn bad.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Zach is a productive player under any system.

The Knicks couldn't really put away the Heat, though, like they should have... and the Heat are pretty darn bad.

Ed O.

Zach is a productive fantasy player under any system. Whether that translates to victories? Well, the past tells us 'no' so far in his career.

 

[PapaG]

Haha.

Zach gives up 23/10 to Udonis Haslem!

 

[Ed O]

Haha.

Zach gives up 23/1o to Udonis Haslem!

Did you watch the game? Lee was guarding Haslem most of the time I was watching.

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

Zach is a productive fantasy player under any system. Whether that translates to victories? Well, the past tells us 'no' so far in his career.

Really? The last time we won playoff games was because Zach had been put into the starting lineup.

 

[PapaG]

Did you watch the game? Lee was guarding Haslem most of the time I was watching.

Ed O.

Zach can't even guard Udonis Haslem.

 

[Ed O]

Zach is a productive fantasy player under any system. Whether that translates to victories? Well, the past tells us 'no' so far in his career.

First of all, you're making a distinction without a difference. Zach has been a productive player. He scores and he rebounds. He produces. Fantasy production and real-life production have a tremendous amount of overlap.

Secondly, an individual's production "translating to victories" is almost meaningless.

For whatever reason you have a chip on your shoulder about Zach and are willing to overlook his positives just because of his negatives. I prefer to accept both.

Ed O.

 

[PapaG]

Really? The last time we won playoff games was because Zach had been put into the starting lineup.

Um, they lost that series to Dallas, and Zach as the #1 option has been a failure in two cities so far.

 

[Ed O]

Zach can't even guard Udonis Haslem.

What are you talking about?

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Um, no. They lost that series to Dallas.

Are you being dense on purpose?

They won playoff games because of Zach's play against Dallas. No one claimed that they won the series.

Sheesh.

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

Um, they lost that series to Dallas, and Zach as the #1 option has been a failure in two cities so far.

We didn't start Zach til Game 4. We were 3-1 with Zach.

 

[PapaG]

First of all, you're making a distinction without a difference. Zach has been a productive player. He scores and he rebounds. He produces. Fantasy production and real-life production have a tremendous amount of overlap.

Secondly, an individual's production "translating to victories" is almost meaningless.

For whatever reason you have a chip on your shoulder about Zach and are willing to overlook his positives just because of his negatives. I prefer to accept both.

Ed O.

Totally not true. I've said numerous times that Zach would be an excellent scoring/rebounding option off the bench for a good team, or a good (yet defensively deficient) option as a starter for a bad team. He just can't carry the weight that his contract demands him to carry on a winning team. If that's a "chip on my shoulder", fine, but history backs me up on my long-time "chip on my shoulder".

They gave up 115 points to Miami and barely won the game.

 

[PapaG]

Are you being dense on purpose?

They won playoff games because of Zach's play against Dallas. No one claimed that they won the series.

Sheesh.

Ed O.

Great. Then let's agree, since we are giving Zach credit as a surprise in the Dallas series, that they were one of the worst teams in the league after he was paid to be the primary option and franchise player.

Agree?

 

[Ed O]

Great. Then let's agree, since we are giving Zach credit as a surprise in the Dallas series, that they were one of the worst teams in the league after he was paid to be the primary option and franchise player.

Agree?

It's not a statement that's relevant.

Look at the players around Zach... the team dumped Rasheed and Bonzi (its two best players) and got nothing for them. It drafted high schoolers like Telfair and Webster that were unable to help Zach. It signed free agents like Juan Dixon and relied on Darius Miles (!) as the second-best player for the team.

Zach had no help, and so blaming HIM for the team's failures (when the team around him was so terrible) is simplistic or disingenuous.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Totally not true. I've said numerous times that Zach would be an excellent scoring/rebounding option off the bench for a good team, or a good (yet defensively deficient) option as a starter for a bad team. He just can't carry the weight that his contract demands him to carry on a winning team. If that's a "chip on my shoulder", fine, but history backs me up on my long-time "chip on my shoulder".

So do you NOT disagree with him being productive?

Or do you?

You're all over the board.

They gave up 115 points to Miami and barely won the game.

Fantastic. Who gives a shit?

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

Totally not true. I've said numerous times that Zach would be an excellent scoring/rebounding option off the bench for a good team, or a good (yet defensively deficient) option as a starter for a bad team. He just can't carry the weight that his contract demands him to carry on a winning team. If that's a "chip on my shoulder", fine, but history backs me up on my long-time "chip on my shoulder".

They gave up 115 points to Miami and barely won the game.

They're playing a style that gives up lots of points. Remember the Suns under D'Antoni?

 

[KingSpeed]

Enough about Zach though.

Durant= bust

 

[PapaG]

So do you NOT disagree with him being productive?

Or do you?

You're all over the board..

I already said that Zach is a productive fantasy player. Unless padding stats on bad teams somehow wins NBA championships???

 

[PapaG]

They're playing a style that gives up lots of points. Remember the Suns under D'Antoni?

If they only beat Miami 120-115 tonight, it will be another year of stat padding for a bad team for Ol' Z-RO.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I actually do agree with some of what PapaG is saying. Randolph is a horrible defender. and when you do stuff like this, I'd rather have him on the bench.

[video=youtube;7lvYf08X6tc]

 

[Ed O]

I actually do agree with some of what PapaG is saying. Randolph is a horrible defender. and when you do stuff like this, I'd rather have him on the bench.

It was a two-for-one situation. Clearly it would have been better had he made the shot, but if you have to pick a single play to criticize a guy for, I don't think that's a very strong one.

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

On the subject of Minny, by the way, I think they're for real this season. They have surrounded Al Jefferson with good pieces. They will give us hell this year. They could even beat us out for the playoffs. We'll see.

 

[Ed O]

I already said that Zach is a productive fantasy player. Unless padding stats on bad teams somehow wins NBA championships???

You made a distinction between "productive" and "productive fantasy" player.

It's bullshit.

He's productive in actual games, whether you want to add extra words or not.

Ed O.