OT: Oh, That Ruben

[jlprk]

From Out of Bounds by Jeff Benedict

Thanks for the non-sarcastic information. I hadn't heard of Jeff Benedict. He teaches English at a Mormon college in conservative Virginia. His books choose political targets he feels are bad guys. He has a special interest in fighting Indian casinos. The quotes you gave may or may not be based upon the false information the police department fed out. The media didn't tell what that was, so there's no way to know.

Amazon says Benedict wants "to detail what he calls "the rash of lawlessness that is currently gripping the NBA." Benedict exposes how life as a touring player in the NBA offers vast amounts of free time and sex, encouraging criminal behavior and leading to a warped perception of women and their availability, as well as producing an environment "hot-wired" to produce incidents of sexual assault."

Anyway, my point is that contrary to what this thread was saying, Ruben did indeed receive much punishment and a severely decreased quality of life for the rest of his life--far more than he inflicted.

 

[crandc]

Amazing how jlprk "knows" all these facts that were not presented in court. And that the man who says women should not be allowed to speak on politics poses as a defender of women, and rapists too. It is true that well after the fact some people mistakenly suggested the woman was under age, which she was not. News flash; it's still rape if she's over 21.

BTW it is Whoopi, not Whoopie. But it was not a typo typo.

And she was essentially doing what jlprk and the defenders of Patterson and Bryant (and others) do. He's talented (not to mention rich and powerful) so it's not really rape rape. I mean, doesn't every domestic worker "really" want to screw her employer's husband? Doesn't every 13 year old "really" want a 40 year old man to dose her with drugs and alcohol and have forced vaginal and anal intercourse while she cries and pleads with him to stop? Doesn't every hotel waitress really want a basketball player to make her kiss his dick?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

He was masturbating in his own bedroom when his nanny, who he had a long affair with (the affair was over at the time of the incident) interrupted him. They had sexual relations. According to Patterson and his wife, the sex was consensual. He pleaded no content, he and his wife didn't want the thing to get dragged out. This is not similar to the Kobe case at all.

It's pretty close to the difficult cases of marital rape. Many rapist have many victims. To lump Patterson with these is unfortunate. It happened in the Jailblazer era.

 

[crandc]

He was masturbating in his own bedroom when his nanny, who he had a long affair with (the affair was over at the time of the incident) interrupted him. They had sexual relations. According to Patterson and his wife, the sex was consensual. He pleaded no content, he and his wife didn't want the thing to get dragged out. This is not similar to the Kobe case at all.

It's pretty close to the difficult cases of marital rape. Many rapist have many victims. To lump Patterson with these is unfortunate. It happened in the Jailblazer era.

The court records are that he forced her to have sex. There was no mention of an affair. That was invented years later. You know, like Al Gore saying he invented the Internet and Saddam Hussein's illegal weapons. Repeat enough and someone will think it's true. Nothing difficult unless you really really want to believe poor l'il Ruben was the sad victim of a scheming bitch.

And Patterson had/had a long history of violent actions starting at least in college. That's why he was drafted in the 2nd round; talent-wise he would have been a first round pick but teams were wary. Turns out they were right. So I really can't cry for a millionaire who can't keep his overpaid ass out of trouble. He's not unfortunate; he has been more fortunate than 99.9% of the world's population.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

The court records are that he forced her to have sex. There was no mention of an affair. That was invented years later. You know, like Al Gore saying he invented the Internet and Saddam Hussein's illegal weapons. Repeat enough and someone will think it's true. Nothing difficult unless you really really want to believe poor l'il Ruben was the sad victim of a scheming bitch.

I remember reading it in an oregonian article at the time, not years later.

And Patterson had/had a long history of violent actions starting at least in college. That's why he was drafted in the 2nd round; talent-wise he would have been a first round pick but teams were wary. Turns out they were right. So I really can't cry for a millionaire who can't keep his overpaid ass out of trouble. He's not unfortunate; he has been more fortunate than 99.9% of the world's population.

Not unfortunate? He's a moron without the life skills you and I take for granted. Life has a way of punishing people like this repeatedly, whether they have $ or not. I don't particularly feel sorry for RP, but I don't think he should be lumped in with most multi-victim rapists.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

He was masturbating in his own bedroom when his nanny, who he had a long affair with (the affair was over at the time of the incident) interrupted him. They had sexual relations. According to Patterson and his wife, the sex was consensual. He pleaded no content, he and his wife didn't want the thing to get dragged out. This is not similar to the Kobe case at all.

It's pretty close to the difficult cases of marital rape. Many rapist have many victims. To lump Patterson with these is unfortunate. It happened in the Jailblazer era.

Sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. No one is going to plead guilty to rape, have be listed as a sex offender for life because they got caught masturbating and then had consensual sex with the person who caught them.

 

[crandc]

Not unfortunate? He's a moron without the life skills you and I take for granted. Life has a way of punishing people like this repeatedly, whether they have $ or not. I don't particularly feel sorry for RP, but I don't think he should be lumped in with most multi-victim rapists.

I don't think multiple assault is a lack of life skills. Some people without life skills are depressed, or reclusive, or have 50 cats,or walk around talking to themselves, or are homeless. Assault takes more than a lack of life skills.

This may, obviously neither you or I know, be his only rape offense, but I don't think someone gets a free pass for one rape. And it was certainly not his only violent act.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. No one is going to plead guilty to rape, have be listed as a sex offender for life because they got caught masturbating and then had consensual sex with the person who caught them.

That was my thinking. Other points that stood out for me was that the book claimed that the nanny had not previously spent the night without Ruben's wife there and that a third party witnessed her telling the wife about the assault. The author is definitely trying to prove a point and will slant facts to support his claim, but those seem like they would be easy to sue against for libel.

Agree that Ruben paid a price since his name is always brought up as Ruben Patterson - Registered Sex Offender. However, financially it was not that bad. He got a full MLE deal with a trade kicker. I doubt that he could have gotten a better contract at the time. He wore out his welcome at many stops after the Blazers and was deemed uncoachable.

I loved his effort on the court. There were just too many off the court incidents for me to cheer for him without feeling guilty.

 

[jlprk]

Sly said twice that no one pleads guilty unless they're guilty. Actually, prosecutors routinely put up every charge they can think of (to see what will stick), with half of those charges gross exaggerations, to motivate the plaintiff to plea bargain and save the taxpayers money. A person who is guilty of half the charges, must plea bargain guilty to them all, if his plea is to be accepted. In these cases, the standard penalty (be it 3 years or whatever) exists only to scare the person into plea bargaining down to (something like) 10% of the standard penalty. During the Reagan years, penalties were greatly increased. The effect (and possible purpose) was to get more plea bargains accepted and save money. Also, some people say we should look at the police report to find the details of what someone is really guilty of. But police reports are not neutral. They are constructed as slanted tools for one side, the prosecution, and wordings are often tilted.

So I don't know whether Sly is right that no one ever pleads guilty unless they're guilty, but a more sophisticated rendition is that many plead guilty to double the charges of which they are guilty.

Response to Charcoal Filter's posts: This is a debater I can respect. No hatred, no sarcasm, no hysterical emotions, has perspective.

 

[jlprk]

Amazing how jlprk "knows" all these facts that were not presented in court. And that the man who says women should not be allowed to speak on politics poses as a defender of women, and rapists too...And she was essentially doing what jlprk and the defenders of Patterson and Bryant (and others) do.

This pile of BS is an example of throwing out charges to see what will stick (what the defendant will be too tired to defend). Now that Crandc has put all this BS up, I have to spend 20 minutes to write about it. This is how those in power stay there--by lowering a debate to personal attacks. So I have to respond point by point to this minutiae of crap.

Crandc lies when she insinuates I have ever defended Kobe Bryant. In fact, in this thread I compared how his acts were worse than Ruben's.

Crandc lies when she says I am "the man who says women should not be allowed to speak about politics." Can you show me the post, liar? I have voted for many, many women over the years. I believe in absolute equality of the sexes (and also of sexual orientation) and have spoken to my own detriment in job situations when the group including the boss was telling jokes. I will guess at the source of her confusion. In one thread, Crandc criticized what she called "anarchists" rioting in the streets as "cowboy behavior." As usual, I went easy on her, not noting her sexist analogy. And I didn't mention Stonewall. I said that 40 years ago (she's maybe 3 years younger than me and she know this) before the left was run by feminists, demonstrations (and yes, a few riots) were more commonplace. But after women took over leftism, such actions in the streets are now called "cowboy behavior." I was putting down her use of the word "cowboy," while gently not calling her out for being sexist. She then knee-jerked that I was sexist for saying "when women took over." She survives by capitalizing upon the niceness of her male opponent. So based upon that exchange, she now throws BS up onto the wall to see whether it will stick--"the man who says women should not be allowed to speak about politics" gets only my contempt. She's lower than I thought. After Hillary Clinton lost to Obama, I politely asked her on BBB why she and feminists hadn't pushed for Hillary (I had stated several times over the months that I was for Hillary over Obama, while Crandc remained silent) she said that feminists couldn't get excited over someone like Hillary. I politely didn't say--Okay, but you can sure get excited about hating men.

The "cowboy" post was the only time I have ever debated with her. Oh yeah, the one other time was at the start of the Iraq War, when she and her pro-war pals kept starting war threads on ESPN to ferret out us antiwar posters and intimidate us (she didn't make death threats, but a few did on other team boards--on the Blazer board a few [not she] only talked in general about making violence against us). In one thread, after an American civilian mercenary had been killed (who knows who was fighting by then--the Iraqi Army had been defeated within a week), Crandc criticized the Iraqis defending their country from foreign invaders for not obeying the Geneva Convention about civilians not being attacked. (Half of Americans there were civilian contractors, including mercenaries, bounty hunters, etc. The biggest Iran-Contra hearing discovery was that American wars now heavily use civilians as cover from Congressional laws regulating military behavior.) Her stupidity was flabbergasting, but typical from her pro-war friends in those threads. She never helped the antiwar side. (Half the time her purpose was to convert the thread into talking about gay issues.)

As for "amazing how jlprk knows what was presented in court," as I explained, my source was that I reviewed the Seattle Times and P-I before posting. She hints that I made it up. I didn't say it was presented in court (although his attorney might have said it in the courtroom after the hearing, the article doesn't say the exact room). Contrary to Crandc's emotional style in her personal accusations, I was careful not to word it as saying that the prosecutor overtly agreed, and I specifically said that the prosecutor did not deny Ruben's lawyer when he noted that there was police misconduct.

John Wolfe, Patterson's attorney, echoed Fogen [Ruben's agent] in his argument. "This was a routine case until the Bellevue Police Department decided they didn't like the deal" that had been reached with the prosecutor's office, he said. The third-degree charge and Alford plea were part of a pre-arranged deal agreed upon between Wolfe and the prosecutor's office. Johnson [the female prosecutor] did not disagree with Wolfe's charge of police misconduct.

http://www.seattlepi.com/basketball/23174_sonx16.shtml

Crandc derailed the thread into false personal attacks, forcing me to spend an hour defending myself, which is the goal of her age-old ad hominem technique--to reduce and tire your opponent by arguing about nothing. As usual, the method succeeded.

 

[Idog1976]

Crandc lies when she says I am "the man who says women should not be allowed to speak about politics."

I had to read that part a couple of times myself. I think she's referring to the Mormon author, I might be wrong.

In one thread, after an American civilian mercenary had been killed

Was that when those Blackwater Mercs were killed? Kind of hard to call them civilians and non-state actor suicide bombers "terrorists" and not civilians. It's all such a clusterfuck over there but of course Obushma is just continuing to follow orders from the same string pullers Bush took his marching orders from. Sad that people still buy into the false dichotomy of Democrat vs. Republican.

I still can't believe this thread isn't in the OT: Forum!!!

 

[crandc]

My head has exploded.

I would point to an OT thread where jlprk unaccountably accused me of being a law and order right-winger, surely a first. And said this is what women tend to be so women should not participate in political discussion. Not an exact quote but the gist of it.

I protested the Iraq war before the US even arrived there, now I am prowar? And was asking ESPN to ferret out antiwar protesters? Criticized Iraqis for not following Geneva? The kindest thing I can say is jlprk is confusing me with someone else. Or else he's flat out delusional.

I also explicitly said that those who used the excuse of injustice in the Meserle verdict to break windows and rob stores were not "anarchists". I don't recall using the word cowboy.

And I did not say jlprk defended Bryant. I was speaking generally, that a man who is talented somehow in a lot of people's minds (like the otherwise sensible Whoopi Goldberg) gets a pass for rape.

I also did not say feminists generally were not excited about Hillary Clinton; clearly a lot of feminists were. I have said I am not a Democrat and did not vote for either Clinton or Obama. I supported socialist candidates because I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want, like continuing the Afghan war. Others disagree with me, which is fine, but don't put views on me I never held or stated. Notice no links to my alleged crimes.

Now that jlprk has attempted, I hope unsuccessfully, to make the discussion about me, or rather about some imaginary pro-war anti-feminist law and order right winger he says is me, can we simply agree to be relieved that Ruben Patterson is no longer the Blazers', or their fans', problem?

 

[Idog1976]

My head has exploded.

I would point to an OT thread where jlprk unaccountably accused me of being a law and order right-winger, surely a first. And said this is what women tend to be so women should not participate in political discussion. Not an exact quote but the gist of it.

Didn't know that. I was mostly responding to the idea (not yours) that a Mercenary armed to the teeth and in body armor can be called a civilian. I've agreed with you from word go about Ruben for what it's worth.

 

[jlprk]

I'll just stick in my answers. I can't have 50 little quote windows. Capitals don't mean I'm shouting, they just differentiate my answers.
--------------
I would point to an OT thread where jlprk unaccountably accused me of being a law and order right-winger, surely a first. YOU ARE PRETTY CONSERVATIVE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU REALIZE IT. And said this is what women tend to be so women should not participate in political discussion. Not an exact quote but the gist of it. NOT THE GIST AT ALL. AFTER YOU LABELED STREET ACTION AS COWBOY BEHAVIOR, I SIMPLY NOTED THAT BEFORE WOMEN TOOK OVER THE LEFT, IT WAS AGGRESSIVE, AND IS MUCH WEAKER NOW BECAUSE OF WEAK BELIEFS LIKE YOUR SAYING THAT STRONG ACTION IS COWBOY BEHAVIOR.

I protested the Iraq war before the US even arrived there, now I am prowar? YOU NEVER POSTED SUCH AT THE OUTBREAK. YOU FOUND THINGS TO CRITICIZE WITH IRAQI BEHAVIOR BUT NOT AMERICAN. And was asking ESPN to ferret out antiwar protesters? NO, I SAID THAT OTHERS STARTED THREADS FOR THAT, NOT YOU. GET THE DETAILS RIGHT. Criticized Iraqis for not following Geneva? THAT WAS THE ONLY IRAQ POST YOU MADE BACK THEN TO WHICH I RESPONDED. The kindest thing I can say is jlprk is confusing me with someone else. Or else he's flat out delusional. THAT ONE POST WAS YOU.

I also explicitly said that those who used the excuse of injustice in the Meserle verdict to break windows and rob stores were not "anarchists". I don't recall using the word cowboy. LOOK AT IT. IT'S THERE.

And I did not say jlprk defended Bryant. I was speaking generally, that a man who is talented somehow in a lot of people's minds (like the otherwise sensible Whoopi Goldberg) gets a pass for rape. IT'S IN A QUOTE WINDOW IN MY POST ABOVE.

I also did not say feminists generally were not excited about Hillary Clinton; clearly a lot of feminists were. I have said I am not a Democrat and did not vote for either Clinton or Obama. I supported socialist candidates because I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want, like continuing the Afghan war. Others disagree with me, which is fine, but don't put views on me I never held or stated. Notice no links to my alleged crimes. IT'S NOT A CRIME. AFTER YOU SAID I OPPOSE WOMEN HAVING POLITICAL OPINIONS, I SIMPLY NOTED THAT I POSTED A FEW TIMES FOR HILLARY OVER OBAMA, AND WHEN I ASKED YOU BACK THEN WHY YOU DIDN'T, YOU SAID YOU WERE UNEXCITED ABOUT HER.

Now that jlprk has attempted, I hope unsuccessfully, to make the discussion about me, or rather about some imaginary pro-war anti-feminist law and order right winger he says is me, can we simply agree to be relieved that Ruben Patterson is no longer the Blazers', or their fans', problem? YOU WERE THE ONE WHO GOT PERSONAL, FORCING ME TO DO THE SAME. AD HOMINEN ATTACKS ALWAYS HAVE THAT RESULT. YES, I'M TOTALLY IN FAVOR OF DROPPING THE PERSONAL STUFF, IN FACT THE WHOLE THREAD.
------------
Putting that in capital letters makes it look like I'm shouting, but it was just to differentiate my comments from yours. Look, you can't be all bad if you think you think you're a socialist. But your posts don't reflect that self-concept. If I try to see you sympathetically, the formulation would be--maybe you're not a hypocrite, maybe you're just too paranoid to argue for what you say you are.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'll just stick in my answers. I can't have 50 little quote windows. Capitals don't mean I'm shouting, they just differentiate my answers.
--------------
I would point to an OT thread where jlprk unaccountably accused me of being a law and order right-winger, surely a first. YOU ARE PRETTY CONSERVATIVE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU REALIZE IT.

crandc=conservative?

 

[MARIS61]

The court records are that he forced her to have sex. There was no mention of an affair. That was invented years later. You know, like Al Gore saying he invented the Internet and Saddam Hussein's illegal weapons. Repeat enough and someone will think it's true.

I guess that's why you have repeatedly over the years posted that Ruben was convicted ofraping his nanny, even though you know that to be a lie.

He has never even been charged with rape.

He was a black man in Seattle facing a racist police force, a racist press, a racist populace, and nearly certain lengthy jail sentence and years away from his family and career. So his lawyer advised him to cut a deal, which he did. The evidence was weak, the nanny unbelievable, so the DA accepted.

The Lake Oswego police who investigated the spousal abuse charge said it was a clear case of self-defense and defense of his children as his wife was throwing plates at him and was violently out of control. An officer at the scene said Ruben's locking her in a closet was "prudent".

 

[BGrantFan]

My head has exploded.

I would point to an OT thread where jlprk unaccountably accused me of being a law and order right-winger, surely a first. And said this is what women tend to be so women should not participate in political discussion. Not an exact quote but the gist of it.
I protested the Iraq war before the US even arrived there, now I am prowar? And was asking ESPN to ferret out antiwar protesters? Criticized Iraqis for not following Geneva? The kindest thing I can say is jlprk is confusing me with someone else. Or else he's flat out delusional.
I also explicitly said that those who used the excuse of injustice in the Meserle verdict to break windows and rob stores were not "anarchists". I don't recall using the word cowboy.
And I did not say jlprk defended Bryant. I was speaking generally, that a man who is talented somehow in a lot of people's minds (like the otherwise sensible Whoopi Goldberg) gets a pass for rape.
I also did not say feminists generally were not excited about Hillary Clinton; clearly a lot of feminists were. I have said I am not a Democrat and did not vote for either Clinton or Obama. I supported socialist candidates because I'd rather vote for what I want and not get it than vote for what I don't want, like continuing the Afghan war. Others disagree with me, which is fine, but don't put views on me I never held or stated. Notice no links to my alleged crimes.
Now that jlprk has attempted, I hope unsuccessfully, to make the discussion about me, or rather about some imaginary pro-war anti-feminist law and order right winger he says is me, can we simply
agree to be relieved that Ruben Patterson is no longer the Blazers', or their fans', problem?

Fucking Christ on a crutch! If you two jerks have to play stupid me-too games could you please show enough class or decency or basic humanity to NOT do so on a thread discussing the sexual assault of a young woman?

Thank you.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Fucking Christ on a crutch! If you two jerks have to play stupid me-too games could you please show enough class or decency or basic humanity to NOT do so on a thread discussing the sexual assault of a young woman?

Thank you.

Repped.

 

[Idog1976]

This thread has gone off the deep end.