OT: Rank the top ten PFs

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Denny Crane

Denny Crane

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Subject says it all. I'm curious who the top ten are.
 
1. Dirk
2. Amare
3. Aldridge
4. Gasol
5. Griffin
6. Randolph
7. Bosh
8. Love
9. Garnett
10. Boozer
 
Tough to leave off Duncan, Amare, Lee, Scola and Brand, but B-Roys list is pretty solid
 
1. Dirk
2. Gasol
3. Griffin
4. LA
5. Amare
6. Bosh
7. ZBo
8. Josh Smith
9. Love
10. Scola
 
Dirk N.
Amare S.
LaMarcus A.
Zach R.
Blake G.
Carlos B.
Pau G.
Chris B.
Kevin L.
David W.
 
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I think some player are too closely clustered to be accurately ranked against one another, so I prefer to divide them into tiers. Players are on the same tier are roughly as valuable. I'm ranking based on current value, no consideration of future value.

Nowitzki

P. Gasol
Amare
Bosh

Garnett
Duncan
Aldridge

Griffin
Randolph
Love
 
Mediocre Man said:
Tough to leave off Duncan, Amare, Lee, Scola and Brand, but B-Roys list is pretty solid
Click to expand...

Typical right wing reader, skips over important facts! look at number 2 on his list.
 
Minstrel said:
I think some player are too closely clustered to be accurately ranked against one another, so I prefer to divide them into tiers. Players are on the same tier are roughly as valuable. I'm ranking based on current value, no consideration of future value.

Nowitzki

P. Gasol
Amare
Bosh

Garnett
Duncan
Aldridge

Griffin
Randolph
Love
Click to expand...

Bosh?! Have you been watching the playoffs? Chris Bosh over either Aldridge or Randolph is flat out silly.
 
BlazerBeav said:
Bosh?! Have you been watching the playoffs? Chris Bosh over either Aldridge or Randolph is flat out silly.
Click to expand...

You realize that Bosh plays behind the 2 best players in the league right? Pau had a bad playoffs series, you wouldn't rank him lower. Plus Bosh was great against Chicago and pretty good against Philly.
 
BlazerBeav said:
Bosh?! Have you been watching the playoffs? Chris Bosh over either Aldridge or Randolph is flat out silly.
Click to expand...

Have you seen how Aldridge plays with Roy? Now imagine him playing with James or Wade, let alone both. He might not even dare to take a shot. Of course Bosh's production has gone down...he's nowhere near the player James or Wade is. He's still a better go-to guy than Aldridge based on his play in Toronto, IMO.

If Aldridge had a full season like his mid-December-to-mid-February run, he'd probably rank in the second tier.

Randolph is a liability on the defensive end, which prevents him from rising higher on the list. It's what also keeps Love and Griffin lower on the list.
 
I think LaMarcus is as good as any power forward in the league. Including Dirk. Dirk's better offensively, but LaMarcus is better defensively.
 
Minstrel said:
Have you seen how Aldridge plays with Roy? Now imagine him playing with James or Wade, let alone both. He might not even dare to take a shot. Of course Bosh's production has gone down...he's nowhere near the player James or Wade is. He's still a better go-to guy than Aldridge based on his play in Toronto, IMO.

If Aldridge had a full season like his mid-December-to-mid-February run, he'd probably rank in the second tier.

Randolph is a liability on the defensive end, which prevents him from rising higher on the list. It's what also keeps Love and Griffin lower on the list.
Click to expand...
In Bosh's best season as a Raptor, he led them to 47 wins, 1 less than Aldridge did last year; and in a worse conference.

Both guys didn't have much in the way of supporting cast either. I'd understand if you put them on the same tier, but I can't see how Aldridge is in a lower tier than Bosh.
 
Dirk.N
Amare.S
Zach.R
Pau.G
LaMarcus.A
Blake.G
Chris.B
Kevin.L
Carlos.B
Kevin.G
 
1. Dirk
2. Amare
3. ZBO
4. Griffin
5. Aldridge
6. Love
7. Gasol
8. Bosh
9. West
10. Boozer
 
B-Roy said:
In Bosh's best season as a Raptor, he led them to 47 wins, 1 less than Aldridge did last year; and in a worse conference.
Click to expand...

With the same teammates? I never have and never will evaluate player talent by wins and losses, since basketball is a team game. Isiah Thomas wasn't a better player than Michael Jordan when the Pistons were a superior team to the Bulls.

Saying "neither had much in the way of supporting casts" isn't terribly meaningful. It's not either "great supporting cast" or "not great supporting cast." There can be significant differences between even mediocre supporting casts. I'd much rather have the players the Blazers had around Aldridge this past season than the Raptors had around Bosh last year.

Bosh's production last year in Toronto was significantly better than Aldridge's this year. Aldridge doesn't play significantly better defense. He might (might) be slightly better defensively, but not to a large degree.
 
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Minstrel said:
With the same teammates? I never have and never will evaluate player talent by wins and losses, since basketball is a team game. Isiah Thomas wasn't a better player than Michael Jordan when the Pistons were a superior team to the Bulls.

Saying "neither had much in the way of supporting casts" isn't terribly meaningful. It's not either "great supporting cast" or "not great supporting cast." There can be significant differences between even mediocre supporting casts. I'd much rather have the players the Blazers had around Aldridge this past season than the Raptors had around Bosh last year.

Bosh's production last year in Toronto was significantly better than Aldridge's this year. Aldridge doesn't play significantly better defense. He might (might) be slightly better defensively, but not to a large degree.
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The Bosh I was talking about was the Bosh in 06-07. TJ Ford and Calderon were good then, Parker was not bad, and they had a relatively injury free season. Despite playing in a worse confederence, he still didn't win as many games as Aldridge did last year. He lost 7 more games last year than he did on 06-07. I feel like were arguing the common topic of whether or not wins factor into player comparisons. I think they should be somewhat weighted against their performance, and that's my position.

Besides, we're arguing about them as players NOW. You can argue that Bosh is playing next to Wade/LeBron, but his efficiency in almost every area has dropped from last year, and that's not something I would expect to happen to him with a lesser role.
 
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B-Roy said:
Besides, we're arguing about them as players NOW. You can argue that Bosh is playing next to Wade/LeBron, but his efficiency in almost every area has dropped from last year, and that's not something I would expect to happen to him with a lesser role.
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His scoring efficiency went down, which is not something I would have expected. His Offensive Rating was pretty much in line with his past years and his Defensive Rating went way down (lower is better). He had his best season by Win Shares.

Not to say any of these metrics are ideal or definitive, but I think they corroborate what I'd consider the common sense hypothesis, which is that Bosh didn't suddenly become a worse player. I think he's simply not being utilized optimally, because utilizing three stars optimally is harder than just one. And he's obviously the lowest on the totem pole of the "big three" so if anyone gets used sub-optimally, it will be him.

I don't think he's way ahead of Aldridge, and I think Aldridge had a period of last season where he was playing like the Toronto Bosh. He just didn't play that way for the entire season. If Aldridge can play with more aggression and remain productive, he'd be about as good as anyone. His willingness to fade into the background for periods (even as the no-doubt best player on the team) makes it unclear, as of now, as to whether he can be a consistently elite player, IMO.
 
I think Amare is too high on most people's lists. His total lack of defense would drop him down to no better that 5th for me.

As far as Bosh goes, his shot has really been off from the perimeter in most of the games I've watched. I think LA's outside stroke puts him in the top 3 at this position.
 
Minstrel said:
I think some player are too closely clustered to be accurately ranked against one another, so I prefer to divide them into tiers. Players are on the same tier are roughly as valuable. I'm ranking based on current value, no consideration of future value.

Nowitzki

P. Gasol
Amare
Bosh

Garnett
Duncan
Aldridge

Griffin
Randolph
Love
Click to expand...

This is pretty much my list as well, although I'd put Randolph above Griffin and group him with Duncan a Aldridge, and move Garnett into Randolph's slot.
 
e_blazer said:
His total lack of defense would drop him down to no better that 5th for me.
Click to expand...

Reading these lists makes me realize how terrible defense is at the 4 spot these days. KG is the only guy on these lists I would categorize as above average on defense.
 
Run BJM said:
Reading these lists makes me realize how terrible defense is at the 4 spot these days. KG is the only guy on these lists I would categorize as above average on defense.
Click to expand...

I would still definitely categorize Duncan as a good defender. He's not what he once was, but in his prime he was one of the best defensive power forwards ever. Now he's merely very good.

I also think Pau Gasol is extremely underrated on defense. I think he's above average. Bosh and Aldridge I consider average to above average.
 
Minstrel said:
I would still definitely categorize Duncan as a good defender. He's not what he once was, but in his prime he was one of the best defensive power forwards ever. Now he's merely very good.

I also think Pau Gasol is extremely underrated on defense. I think he's above average. Bosh and Aldridge I consider average to above average.
Click to expand...

Agree that Duncan is a good defender even in his current state but hes not making it on many of these lists. I'd rank guys like Pau and Aldridge average and Bosh looks better this year (more committed to defense and less of an offensive load to carry). They do what I expect of guys at their position, size, and athletic ability to do but don't exceed it.

Just a few years ago who were the top PFs? Duncan, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, Brand, Rasheed, Marion were in the discussion and they could all play defense (Brand was somewhat average but the rest were at least above average IMO). Now you've got an old ass KG and you're lucky if the rest of them aren't complete sieves on defense.
 
Here's the top 10 PF's from last season based on win-share.

1. Gasol
2. Love
3. Aldridge
4. Nowitzki
5. Randolph
6. Bosh
7. Odom
8. Griffin
9. Brand
10. KG
 
BlazerBeav said:
Bosh?! Have you been watching the playoffs? Chris Bosh over either Aldridge or Randolph is flat out silly.
Click to expand...

Bosh is averaging 19/9 in the playoffs and hit a game winning shot in the NBA Finals

BRoy's list is close, but leaving off Duncan is silly. They didn't win 60 games by accident last season. Take Duncan off that team, they don't win 50.
 
KingSpeed said:
Bosh is averaging 19/9 in the playoffs and hit a game winning shot in the NBA Finals

BRoy's list is close, but leaving off Duncan is silly. They didn't win 60 games by accident last season. Take Duncan off that team, they don't win 50.
Click to expand...
I count Duncan as a center.
 
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