OT: Rasheed Wallace To Retire

[alex42083]

Shame. Wallace was a really good player and an interesting character. I really liked him as both a Blazer and Piston, and I'm glad he was a key part of a championship team.

I don't buy the "He could have been a Tim Duncan/Kevin Garnett if he wanted to, but he didn't try." Those are two of the greatest big men in the history of the game, Wallace simply wasn't as talented as they were. It's like saying Roy could be Michael Jordan if he really wanted to, he just doesn't try hard enough. We have two variables that none of us know: a player's "true talent level" and a player's desire. Depending on how you want to portray a player, you can set those variables appropriately to make them seem like an overachiever, underachiever or just right.

Wallace was truly gifted defensively and showed it. His offensive talent level was not amazing. It was good...he had shooting ability, but not like Nowitzki. He had some inside game, but not like Duncan. He didn't do everything at a high level like Garnett. He had several good tools on offense, no great ones, and it added up to a dangerous but not all-time great offensive player. Combined with his defensive greatness, I'd say he's just under Hall of Fame caliber, and that's not a disappointment for his talent level.

I hope Wallace ends up as a sports media personality or coach at some point.

I think you're selling Sheed's offensive skills short. You could go the other way and say in his prime, he had a better inside game than Dirk, had a lot better range than Duncan and was just as good overall as KG.

He had all the talent in the world and for a 6-11 guy to be a top-notch defender against the best players in the game, and the ability to score 20-25 points per game, shoot the 3 ball, and post up on anyone? That says a lot about what kind of player he could've been.
He just wasn't willing to put in the extra work in the weight room to keep his body in shape for a long career. He seems content with what he accomplished which is fine with me but I still don't think he realized his full potential.

 

[Webster's Dictionary]

Just watching that mix it's pretty amazing how much Lamarcus's style looks like Sheed. I hope Lamarcus gets just a little more of that nasty "I'm gonna take it in and get a dunk over or trough you right now whether you like it or not," attitude. We could really use some of that in this series.

 

[Minstrel]

I think you're selling Sheed's offensive skills short. You could go the other way and say in his prime, he had a better inside game than Dirk, had a lot better range than Duncan and was just as good overall as KG.

I don't agree that he had an overall game on par with KG. Wallace was a solid passer and ball-handler and a decent inside scorer and outside shooter. Garnett was a great passer and ball-handler (for his size), a great mid-range and inside scorer. Wallace's edge as a perimeter shooter doesn't make up for all of that.

And being better than the worst tool of great players isn't a big selling point. To be a dominant offensive player, you generally have to have at least one great tool. For Shaq, it was his crushing post game. For Duncan, his perfectly skilled post game. For Nowitzki, his great outside shot. A player needs to have one thing that is nearly unstoppable. None of Wallace's offensive skills rose to that level, so he couldn't impose his will offensively. He was a force when his solid weapons were working, but they could be stopped.

Wallace would have been much better off not having an outside shot, but being an amazing inside player. Or not having much inside game but being an amazing shooter. Since he didn't have that one amazing weapon, he did the right thing...use everything he had and hope something was working that night.

He had all the talent in the world and for a 6-11 guy to be a top-notch defender against the best players in the game, and the ability to score 20-25 points per game, shoot the 3 ball, and post up on anyone? That says a lot about what kind of player he could've been.

But he didn't have that ability, to score 20-25 points per game and to post up anyone. He was a great athlete, but he wasn't supremely talented on offense. He was a top notch defender and he had a good, not great, all-around game. That made him very valuable, but I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that he was actually an all-time great talent.

 

[jwhoops11]

I wonder how many people who have complained about Sheed not living up to his potential have themselves lived up to their own personal potential.

I know I could be a far better artist, writer, designer and database developer if I just gave a damn. Like Sheed, I'm better than 80% of the professionals out there at some of the things I do, but in my heart I know I could probably be in the top 5% if I just tried.

There's a lot of "pretty good, but not earth-shattering" out there in the world. Me and Sheed are just doing our little parts to contribute to it. It's not about potential, but about what makes us happy.

Sheed just figured out how to make a lot more money doing it (while also winning an NBA championship).

I'm down with what you're saying, but are you then telling us you don't put everything you've got into the work you do and are ok with that?

I just don't understand that mentality. There are areas of my life where this may be true, but work wouldn't be one of those. Each project I do I give my best effort as this is how I feel I'll be judged when I'm gone someday. I want to be judged as someone who you could rely on day in and day out to do the best work possible. I feel it's my obligation to a company who continues to CTC to me.

This is what I'd hope a proffesional athlete would feel to a franchise paying him hundreds of thousands of times more than what my work does. He should feel an obligation to give his very best anytime he stepped on the court, in the interview room, or the weight room during the offseason.

Sheed, like you, only felt that obligation 80% of the time, and I'll always judge him negatively for it.

 

[maxiep]

I don't agree that he had an overall game on par with KG. Wallace was a solid passer and ball-handler and a decent inside scorer and outside shooter. Garnett was a great passer and ball-handler (for his size), a great mid-range and inside scorer. Wallace's edge as a perimeter shooter doesn't make up for all of that.

And being better than the worst tool of great players isn't a big selling point. To be a dominant offensive player, you generally have to have at least one great tool. For Shaq, it was his crushing post game. For Duncan, his perfectly skilled post game. For Nowitzki, his great outside shot. A player needs to have one thing that is nearly unstoppable. None of Wallace's offensive skills rose to that level, so he couldn't impose his will offensively. He was a force when his solid weapons were working, but they could be stopped.

Wallace would have been much better off not having an outside shot, but being an amazing inside player. Or not having much inside game but being an amazing shooter. Since he didn't have that one amazing weapon, he did the right thing...use everything he had and hope something was working that night.



But he didn't have that ability, to score 20-25 points per game and to post up anyone. He was a great athlete, but he wasn't supremely talented on offense. He was a top notch defender and he had a good, not great, all-around game. That made him very valuable, but I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that he was actually an all-time great talent.

Man, do I disagree with your post. Rasheed was a brilliant passer. His high release made his shot unblockable. He not only had three ball range, but had mastered the midrange game. His low post footwork--when he bothered to use it--was elite. Sabonis even mentioned how good it was. When he wanted to crash the boards, he used his lower body to box out as well as anyone in the league. As for defense, his long arms, footwork, vision and understanding of the game made him a lockdown guy. He would routinely shut down TD and KG, yet Cherokee Parks would light him up.

He had all the ability in the world to put up Chris Webber numbers, but that wasn't his thing. Mentally, he just was built differently. This city wanted to embrace him, but he could never get that chip off of his shoulder. We paid him based on his ability, but he never wanted to earn what he was paid.

I used to be angry at him for shortchanging the Blazers, but distance and time has softened that anger to just sadness for a should-have-been NBA career.

 

[Minstrel]

Man, do I disagree with your post. Rasheed was a brilliant passer. His high release made his shot unblockable. He not only had three ball range, but had mastered the midrange game. His low post footwork--when he bothered to use it--was elite. Sabonis even mentioned how good it was. When he wanted to crash the boards, he used his lower body to box out as well as anyone in the league. As for defense, his long arms, footwork, vision and understanding of the game made him a lockdown guy. He would routinely shut down TD and KG, yet Cherokee Parks would light him up.

Your description of his good points strikes me as a good description of Wallace at his best. In his best games, he was exactly like that. But "talent" isn't defined as one's best, IMO. That's one's ceiling. One's talent comes out in what one can do on a regular basis. Wallace was capable of dominating when everything was working, but he wasn't talented enough that his abilities were on every night. I guess you chalk that up to not trying some nights, I chalk it up to his talent not being good enough to be consistent.

Much like Outlaw...on his best nights, he looks a bit like Kobe Bryant on offense, with the crazy shots he swishes. Many nights, though, he can't do that...not because he isn't trying, but because his talent level isn't high enough to play at that high level all the time. Aldridge is also a bit like that...on his best nights, he looks as dominant as a prime David Robinson offensively. But there are plenty of 15/6 nights to go with the 32/15 nights.

 

[alex42083]

I don't agree that he had an overall game on par with KG. Wallace was a solid passer and ball-handler and a decent inside scorer and outside shooter. Garnett was a great passer and ball-handler (for his size), a great mid-range and inside scorer. Wallace's edge as a perimeter shooter doesn't make up for all of that.

And being better than the worst tool of great players isn't a big selling point. To be a dominant offensive player, you generally have to have at least one great tool. For Shaq, it was his crushing post game. For Duncan, his perfectly skilled post game. For Nowitzki, his great outside shot. A player needs to have one thing that is nearly unstoppable. None of Wallace's offensive skills rose to that level, so he couldn't impose his will offensively. He was a force when his solid weapons were working, but they could be stopped.

Wallace would have been much better off not having an outside shot, but being an amazing inside player. Or not having much inside game but being an amazing shooter. Since he didn't have that one amazing weapon, he did the right thing...use everything he had and hope something was working that night.

But he didn't have that ability, to score 20-25 points per game and to post up anyone. He was a great athlete, but he wasn't supremely talented on offense. He was a top notch defender and he had a good, not great, all-around game. That made him very valuable, but I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that he was actually an all-time great talent.

I think it's the fact that he could post up on anyone, shoot the 3 ball, run the floor and be a great athlete as a 6-11 big guy is what made him a great talent. He had the talent to do anything he wanted on the floor, he had the all-around game, which is what's rare to find in guys his size.

That's what made him a great talent. Talent is the ability to do all different things on the floor, and Sheed showed he could but not on a regular basis, which was the most frustrating thing with him.

You heard it all the time from NBA analysts such Doug Collins back in the 2000 WCF, and even Hubie Brown today, about the "what if?" with Sheed and if he had that focus and desire, he'd be one of the best.

 

[barfo]

I hope Wallace ends up as a sports media personality or coach at some point.

He'd be great, but I don't have the sense that he'd be interested at all. I'm betting he disappears from the public eye altogether now.

barfo

 

[Stevenson]

Sheed always played on his own terms. I thought he showed a lack of respect for the talent he was given...

He disrespected his talent, he disrespected his teammates, he disrespected the fans, he disrespected the media, he disrespected refs, he disrespected his organization, he disrespected this city. Did I miss anything?

Good riddance.

 

[Minstrel]

I think it's the fact that he could post up on anyone

Well, anyone can. Even I could. I assumed you meant, post up on anyone to successfully create points. I don't think Wallace had that ability. When he was on, he could post up pretty effectively (even then, though, not all that effectively against top-tier defenders).

Talent is the ability to do all different things on the floor, and Sheed showed he could but not on a regular basis, which was the most frustrating thing with him.

Talent is the ability to increase your team's chances of winning through your impact on the floor. Shaq could do fewer things on the court than Steve Nash or many other players, but I'd say Shaq was much more talented. The goal is not to be versatile, it's to be effective. Sometimes versatility is what makes one effective, but ultimately it boils down to how effective one is. Wallace was pretty effective, not not dominating. When he was on fire, he was dominating, but that can be said for most players. On average, his offensive weapons were solid but not great.

You heard it all the time from NBA analysts such Doug Collins back in the 2000 WCF, and even Hubie Brown today, about the "what if?" with Sheed and if he had that focus and desire, he'd be one of the best.

You hear it all the time about many players. The idea that lots of players "coulda been the best" had they just tried harder or wanted it more or played differently is a bit silly, IMO. People just enjoy myth-making, because a story about how a player "could have been the greatest but blew it" is more interesting than accepting a player who was simply a good player and nothing more.

 

[Uther TheGardener]

dont care..not an nba fan just a blazer fan....

 

[Big Frame]

Shame. Wallace was a really good player and an interesting character. I really liked him as both a Blazer and Piston, and I'm glad he was a key part of a championship team.

You didnt like him as a Hawk?

Im going to miss him like a hole in my head. It seams like he allways got thrown out of big games, or he didnt even show up. drove me crazy.

 

[Minstrel]

You didnt like him as a Hawk?

Ha, I thought about adding "But I hated him as a Hawk," but I thought people might take that seriously.

 

[HailBlazers]

Shocking News! Considering, I thought he retired about three years ago

 

[crandc]

I'm betting he disappears from the public eye altogether now.

barfo

Me too. Sheed clearly loved playing the game of baskeball but just as clearly disliked, to say the least, the public/PR aspects of the job. He blew off interviews, autographs, "meet the team" events, etc. and disliked All Star games. He'll probably play with his kids, friends, neighbors.

 

[Ed O]

I would still enjoy seeing a link for this. I haven't seen anything about him retiring other than this thread.

Ed O.

 

[retroblazers]

seeing his highlight reel makes you wonder why we don't throw more alley oops to lamarcus and oden

 

[BasX]

I would still enjoy seeing a link for this. I haven't seen anything about him retiring other than this thread.

Ed O.

Agreed. I've seen more news of him playing next year, then anything of this. This news would be flying everywhere.

 

[mook]

I'm down with what you're saying, but are you then telling us you don't put everything you've got into the work you do and are ok with that?

I just don't understand that mentality. There are areas of my life where this may be true, but work wouldn't be one of those. Each project I do I give my best effort as this is how I feel I'll be judged when I'm gone someday. I want to be judged as someone who you could rely on day in and day out to do the best work possible. I feel it's my obligation to a company who continues to CTC to me.

Yep. I don't put everything into my work. I put a decent amount in, and coast on talent. I got talented by working insanely hard in my 20's. But back then I was single and ambitious about my career.

Now? I'd rather be 100% there for my two kids and my great wife, my dogs and my extended family. I'm more productive now than I was back when I worked hard because I'm just smarter. But I've come to accept that nothing I'll ever work on will matter as much as these other things.

Rasheed could've spent all summer every summer in the gym practicing his shot and his low post moves. He could've spent 4 hours a day in a gym building on his frame. As a fan paying big bucks to see him play, that's what you hope to see.

But my guess is that he spent a lot of July, August and September hanging with his kids and his family. He got to see a lot more of his kids growing up than a fanatical workaholic like Kobe probably did.

Sheed won't be remembered in the Hall of Fame. Kobe will. But sometimes it matters more who you remember, than who remembers you.

 

[Tortimer]

He disrespected his talent, he disrespected his teammates, he disrespected the fans, he disrespected the media, he disrespected refs, he disrespected his organization, he disrespected this city. Did I miss anything?

Good riddance.

+repped Can't stand the jerk and the NBA is going to be a lot better with him gone and forgotten.

 

[Tortimer]

Yep. I don't put everything into my work. I put a decent amount in, and coast on talent. I got talented by working insanely hard in my 20's. But back then I was single and ambitious about my career.

Now? I'd rather be 100% there for my two kids and my great wife, my dogs and my extended family. I'm more productive now than I was back when I worked hard because I'm just smarter. But I've come to accept that nothing I'll ever work on will matter as much as these other things.

Rasheed could've spent all summer every summer in the gym practicing his shot and his low post moves. He could've spent 4 hours a day in a gym building on his frame. As a fan paying big bucks to see him play, that's what you hope to see.

But my guess is that he spent a lot of July, August and September hanging with his kids and his family. He got to see a lot more of his kids growing up than a fanatical workaholic like Kobe probably did.

Sheed won't be remembered in the Hall of Fame. Kobe will. But sometimes it matters more who you remember, than who remembers you.

Get real! Your just trying to make Sheed out to be some kind of real caring person. He is a jerk plan and simple.

 

[mook]

Get real! Your just trying to make Sheed out to be some kind of real caring person. He is a jerk plan and simple.

You've met his kids, wife and extended family and know they hate him?

I've read more than one family guy complain about how grueling it is.

Not everybody has Kobe Bryant's motor. Probably a good thing.

 

[Tortimer]

You've met his kids, wife and extended family and know they hate him?

I've read more than one family guy complain about how grueling it is.

Not everybody has Kobe Bryant's motor. Probably a good thing.

No, I don't know his wife and kids. Do you? There isn't nothing I have ever seen that would make me think Sheed cares about anything or anyone but himself.

 

[crandc]

No, I don't know his wife and kids. Do you? There isn't nothing I have ever seen that would make me think Sheed cares about anything or anyone but himself.

Well, let's see. He and his wife have a so-called blended family. Each has a son from a previous relationship and they have a son and daughter together. Although not the biological father of the oldest, he is clearly the father in that young man's (he is well into his teens now) life. In an interview, he stressed that just because his father is a rich and famous basketball player does not mean his son does not have to clean up his room or listen to his mother. And the kids could not come to games unless they completed their homework.

During the off season Sheed is a "househusband". He explained that due to his travel and work schedule, during the NBA season his wife has to pretty much take responsibility for the home and family by herself, so this is his way of equalizing the situation. He takes primary responsibility so she is free to go out with her friends and her sisters or just kick back.

At the time of his trade to Detroit, his wife was pregnant with their daughter. He talked about how she was facing a difficult choice. Either go to Detroit and find a new doctor in the midst of a pregnancy, and he said it was not easy for a woman to suddenly develop that kind of trust in a doctor (very true, and how many men know or care?) or stay behind with the doctor she was familiar with but have to go through pregnancy and delivery thousands of miles from her husband. He said it was her decision and he'd back her whatever she decided.

After the Pistons won the championship, they made the ritual visit to the White House and Sheed spoke scornfully of Bush, saying "I ain't got shit to say to him. I never voted for him." But at that visit, Sheed brought his infant daughter and when Bush picked up the baby girl and rocked her, Sheed was all smiles. It sure did not change his overall opinion of Bush (or mine) but as a father he has to smile at anyone who pays attention to his little girl.

Whatever you can say about him, questioning his family devotion is just BS.

And yes, he's also done some good charity work.

A group of top prep players went to the University of North Carolina on a recruitment visit. After the tour of the facility, they all wanted to go out and do some partying. All but one. One player had heard that there was an older professor at UNC who had been one of the famed Tuskegee Airmen during World War II and he wanted, instead of partying, to look up this professor and hear this bit of history first hand. That one high school player was Rasheed Wallace.

He's a talented artist who interned with an architect in high school. His mom hoped he'd become an architect but he became a basketball player instead. Maybe a second career?

 

[Tortimer]

Well, let's see. He and his wife have a so-called blended family. Each has a son from a previous relationship and they have a son and daughter together. Although not the biological father of the oldest, he is clearly the father in that young man's (he is well into his teens now) life. In an interview, he stressed that just because his father is a rich and famous basketball player does not mean his son does not have to clean up his room or listen to his mother. And the kids could not come to games unless they completed their homework.

During the off season Sheed is a "househusband". He explained that due to his travel and work schedule, during the NBA season his wife has to pretty much take responsibility for the home and family by herself, so this is his way of equalizing the situation. He takes primary responsibility so she is free to go out with her friends and her sisters or just kick back.

At the time of his trade to Detroit, his wife was pregnant with their daughter. He talked about how she was facing a difficult choice. Either go to Detroit and find a new doctor in the midst of a pregnancy, and he said it was not easy for a woman to suddenly develop that kind of trust in a doctor (very true, and how many men know or care?) or stay behind with the doctor she was familiar with but have to go through pregnancy and delivery thousands of miles from her husband. He said it was her decision and he'd back her whatever she decided.

After the Pistons won the championship, they made the ritual visit to the White House and Sheed spoke scornfully of Bush, saying "I ain't got shit to say to him. I never voted for him." But at that visit, Sheed brought his infant daughter and when Bush picked up the baby girl and rocked her, Sheed was all smiles. It sure did not change his overall opinion of Bush (or mine) but as a father he has to smile at anyone who pays attention to his little girl.

Whatever you can say about him, questioning his family devotion is just BS.

And yes, he's also done some good charity work.

A group of top prep players went to the University of North Carolina on a recruitment visit. After the tour of the facility, they all wanted to go out and do some partying. All but one. One player had heard that there was an older professor at UNC who had been one of the famed Tuskegee Airmen during World War II and he wanted, instead of partying, to look up this professor and hear this bit of history first hand. That one high school player was Rasheed Wallace.

He's a talented artist who interned with an architect in high school. His mom hoped he'd become an architect but he became a basketball player instead. Maybe a second career?

What the hell I never said one bad thing about his family. Read the posts! I didn't mention anything about his family. There a ton of people that love and care for their family and some of them are jerks, serial killers etc. Sheed is a jerk plan and simple. You can say he is a great family man but that still doesn't change anything. People have to live with their actions towards other people not just their family.

 

[Shooter]

You've met his kids, wife and extended family and know they hate him?

Are you serious? I'm sure Jeffrey Dahmer's parents loved him, too, but that doesn't change the fact that he was a serial killer. Wives will love their husbands, and children will love their fathers, no matter what they have done, and no matter how heinous. That's just the way it is.

 

[free_lafrentz]

Is there a LINK anywhere yet that supports this rumor? As far as I can tell ESPN is reporting Sheed might get moved to San Antonio in the offseason in their "rumors" section.

 

[crandc]

What the hell I never said one bad thing about his family. Read the posts! I didn't mention anything about his family. There a ton of people that love and care for their family and some of them are jerks, serial killers etc. Sheed is a jerk plan and simple. You can say he is a great family man but that still doesn't change anything. People have to live with their actions towards other people not just their family.

Whoa, take a chill pill. You said you'd heard nothing to convince you that Rasheed Wallace cared for anyone but himself. I was attempting to show he cares for his family among other things. I realize that some serial killers et al care for their families and merely caring for one's family does not make one a good person. But you said he cared for no one but himself. I disagree and showed evidence to back up my case.

 

[tlongII]

Sheed is the one player I have a Love/Hate relationship with. He was as talented as any player I've ever seen, but he was a crazy mofo.

 

[Denny Crane]

Seems like teams won lots of games with him as part of the core. His 15/7 kind of career stats don't tell the whole story about his contributions to winning teams.

He was consistently good, and a great shooter for a big man - few that I can think of were or are ~35% shooters from 3pt range.

He was clearly a key player for the Pistons over the past several seasons, especially those where they were so strong as a defensive team.

People say the Pistons won a championship with no stars, but I'd argue that Billups was one, Sheed was one, and Ben Wallace had a few seasons where he was the best defensive player in the history of the NBA or close to it.