OT: Rose Done for the Year

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yuyuza1 said:
smh. Younger and better player = same?

Noah is in his prime. He's an elite defender with DRTG of 98 over the last 4 seasons (one w/o Thibs too). The guy AVERAGED 4 assists per game. You compare him to Dale Davis whose career high was 1.5/g. Come on, man.
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Funny.... the year before we traded for Dale, he averaged MORE points, MORE rebounds, MORE blocks, better PER. So maybe he wasn't so clearly better... :dunno:
 
There is a reason Bulls fans bend over backwards trying to come up with LA to CHI deals. They understand how potent a LA-Noah combo can be.
 
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mook said:
I'm right there with you, dude. He's averaging 4 assists/game, which is phenomenal out of your center.

Just imagine a typical offensive possession--Lillard drives, kicks out to Batum, throws it into Aldridge, Aldridge misses his jumper, Noah rebounds and throws it to Wes in the corner for the wide open 3, which he kills. Shit man, I just gave myself a hardon.

Great defense and even more great passing is exactly what we need from the center position. He was made to play next to LMA.
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Ummm that play happens all the time except with Freeland making the pass.
 
To be fair to Nate, the statistical comparisons of Noah/Davis the year before they were traded are pretty close in some ways. It's that age difference that really makes up for it, IMO.

Plus it's a different NBA now. Mobile, active big men who can block shots from driving PG's without fouling are at a premium now. Your threat comes from the penetrating guard, not the big man who abuses you in the post.

Dale Davis was more of a positional defender who was great in a more plodding, low post defensive set.

Noah is exactly the kind of center you need when there's a Kyrie/Westbrook/Wall/etc waltzing into the lane practically every night.
 
mook said:
To be fair to Nate, the statistical comparisons of Noah/Davis the year before they were traded are pretty close in some ways. It's that age difference that really makes up for it, IMO.

Plus it's a different NBA now. Mobile, active big men who can block shots from driving PG's without fouling are at a premium now. Your threat comes from the penetrating guard, not the big man who abuses you in the post.

Dale Davis was more of a positional defender who was great in a more plodding, low post defensive set.

Noah is exactly the kind of center you need when there's a Kyrie/Westbrook/Wall/etc waltzing into the lane practically every night.
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Noah is a couple years younger, very true, but the whole point is that they're similar kind of player. A hard working big man who rebounds, plays defense, and is limited offensively. I'm not against trading for Noah, but dealing away CJ, Leonard, AND TRob is very very risky.
 
mook said:
To be fair to Nate, the statistical comparisons of Noah/Davis the year before they were traded are pretty close in some ways. It's that age difference that really makes up for it, IMO.

Plus it's a different NBA now. Mobile, active big men who can block shots from driving PG's without fouling are at a premium now. Your threat comes from the penetrating guard, not the big man who abuses you in the post.

Dale Davis was more of a positional defender who was great in a more plodding, low post defensive set.

Noah is exactly the kind of center you need when there's a Kyrie/Westbrook/Wall/etc waltzing into the lane practically every night.
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Davis was an upgrade, anyway. 15 PER vs the ~12 PER you got from JO.

A lot of Bulls fans think Noah should be a core piece for next season. I love the guy, but I'm not seeing the strategy to contend if we keep him.
 
I wouldn't undervalue the potential benefits of creating a French connection either. Having Noah yelling constantly in Nic's ear about being aggressive will make Nic a better player.
 
Who is the O'Neal we are giving up? Neither Freeland, CJ, or TRob have budding allstar potential right now.
 
yuyuza1 said:
I wouldn't undervalue the potential benefits of creating a French connection either. Having Noah yelling constantly in Nic's ear about being aggressive will make Nic a better player.
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If you've heard Noah speak, he's got a strong New York accent.
 
Doesn't Noah have the type of game (poor man's mix of Rodman/Walton) that would seem to age pretty well? I mean, I get that CHI doesn't think they're in contention for a title until Rose is back to MVP-level (if ever), but I don't see a 34 y/o Noah being that much worse than he is right now. Why wouldn't you hold on to a guy like that?

On our part, I don't like keeping Lopez if we're bringing in a new center (Asik/Noah/whoever) and giving up the kids (especially CJ, but almost as much for Robinson). We don't know what they can be, and we have most of a decade of team control over them, and they have a use on the team. If we bring in Noah, he's going to be on the floor for 30-34 mpg, leaving ~30 minutes for Lopez/Freeland/Stretch 4/Smallball 4. Maybe that works, maybe it doesn't.

I don't like it (I kind of want to see what we have right now), but if PA forced me to get Noah here on the best deal possible, you'd think that CHI would at least think about Lopez/CJ/next available first, right?
 
Yes he's also fluent in French and plays on the national team. He and Nic have history.
 
Zybot said:
Who is the O'Neal we are giving up? Neither Freeland, CJ, or TRob have budding allstar potential right now.
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CJ is one player that many thought could be the ROY before the season started. He has All-Star potential (that being the key word... potential). Robinson is also a player that has the talent to be very special. He's only just starting his second season. O'Neal looked like shit before he was traded to the Pacers, so I think the comparisons are very valid.
 
Denny Crane said:
He has to be a real superstar for the Bulls to win this deal.
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That's the thing - you're not in a position to win any deal. You might get lucky and win the hindsight 20/20 version of the deal - but you're in no position to get the better end the day the deal is made.
If you think Amare/Chandler or Bosh/Anthony are better for a rebuild then go for it (I love how we talk like we can pull the trigger on these deals!). In addition to not giving you ANYTHING for the future, they likely make you better this season which means you end up with a worse lotto pick. CJ/Freeland/Leonard is, IMO, much better for a rebuild. None of them will improve you're W/L record this season, and two of them have upside - one that's significant. And Freeland really has become the next Nick Collison - that's nothing to sneeze at if you're able to rebuild a decent team in the next 2-3 seasons. I've always wanted a "Nick Collison" back-up - very happy with Freeland's development.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Doesn't Noah have the type of game ... that would seem to age pretty well? ... I don't see a 34 y/o Noah being that much worse than he is right now.
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Given his injury history, no. That's why I think Denny's asking price of CJ/Robinson/Leonard is too high. CJ/Freeland/Leonard and maybe rights to swap picks, or 2nd rounders and cash.
 
I’d for sure trade CJ and Meyers for Noah. I’d try to see if there is a way we can keep TRob, as I don’t think Chicago would value him very highly in a trade and I’m very intrigued by his potential. Maybe give them a protected first round draft pick, I think 2017 is the earliest.

I’m excited to see CJ on the team but another poster said it well, he’s an unused scratchoff ticket. He is the main piece going to Chicago and the main reason they do the trade. Him being injured actually doesn’t matter much to them, they’d want to tank now anyways. His injury is a broken bone and not a joint injury.

I seriously think Noah could make us a contending team in the west so ultimately I pull the trigger on any of those deals. A combo of him with Aldridge would be amazing. I think Lopez could play alongside Noah too. GO GET IT DONE NEIL!
 
If I'm Chicago I trade Deng for Danny Granger and get a couple picks from Indy. Helps the team rebuild and gives a good fuck you to the Heat.
 
Draco said:
If I'm Chicago I trade Deng for Danny Granger and get a couple picks from Indy. Helps the team rebuild and gives a good fuck you to the Heat.
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I don't see where Deng fits in. As a super sub?
 
Natebishop3 said:
CJ is one player that many thought could be the ROY before the season started. He has All-Star potential (that being the key word... potential). Robinson is also a player that has the talent to be very special. He's only just starting his second season. O'Neal looked like shit before he was traded to the Pacers, so I think the comparisons are very valid.
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I have a much different recollection. I am not sure which of us is right. O'Neal was stuck behind Grant and Sheed, so his stats may not have jumped out, but I remember thinking that O'Neal was about to bust out if he was given the opportunity. He talked about definitely being an all-star in a year or two that season or the season before, although many kind of rolled their eyes (myself included). But that last year, you could see that he was finally ready to play some minutes, but there were too many players ahead of him on the roster. His per 36 #'s were not all that much different from the last year in Portland to his first year in Indiana. The difference was his minutes tripled. Then he improved more as he was in his prime, which is not altogether surprising. I guess I would say the difference to me is that CJ has not played at all in the NBA. I don't know if he is ready to explode, but he certainly isn't a few years away from his prime. Freeland doesn't seem to me to be the same caliber of player that O'Neal was when he was traded. And if it was Leonard instead of Freeland, he is even farther away from being a rotation player right now. T Rob, I'm just not sure about. I am glad he is on the team, but you have to give up something to get something. I guess where I see a difference is to me the Blazers team with Jermaine had so many players that they were forced to stash some gems on the bench that didn't get the time to develop. There is a spot in this current rotation if you can earn it. T Rob, Freeland, and Leonard are battling each other, but if one was truly a superstar they would be eclipsing the other. With O'Neal, he was truly the 4th cog at the 4/5 spot with Sheed, Arvydas and Brian Grant preventing him from developing or getting minutes. Also, it's kind of hard to showcase someone to get equal trade value if there are too many talented players ahead of them. Now if they make this kind of deal, maybe CJ will be amazing and maybe T Rob and Freeland will be future starters. Leonard is a few years away from being able to be a rotation player. I just don't see it as comparable situations, because CJ hasn't played one minute in the NBA and T Rob and Freeland are getting opportunities, but they aren't wowing us. Leonard seems to be even further away from being a rotation player. But, maybe I am nitpicking because I have nothing better to do. :)
 
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Denny Crane said:
It just shows "loading trade..." forever.

What is the deal?
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I have no clue. Been doing that to me too. Pisses me off!

Anyway it's Golden State, Portland and Chicago.

Pieces going for Chicago is Boozer and Noah.

Portland gets Noah and Golden State gets Boozer.
 
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