OT: Rubio considering coming over now?

[TheFreshPrince]

you mention Roy and LMA.. thats why I lol'd. and trust me I am not one who views our role players as studs. You only mentioned Roy above Rubio, and it struck me as funny. I said phantom pick, because you guys have no leverage with trading him, and he doesnt want to play there.

where have you ever read that he doesn't want to play here? totally made up by the media. Like i said, he has said twice that i've read that is excited to be with minnesota, and he should be. Lamarcus is decent imo, looks like another shareef/z bo but with a good attitude. I like him, but he doesn't bring a ton to the table. Solid scorer and decent rebounder. Minnesota is the perfect place for Rubio, he gets to learn the ropes in about as non harsh and environment for an 18 as possible and he gets to play with one of the better front courts in the league. running pick and rolls with love and jefferson is like a dream scenario for him.

And we have ALL the leverage. what leverage does he have besides sitting out an entire year? I don't think that's what he wants at all. His club is desperate for money, he and his agent are just playing hard ball. They have already made an offer that was refused, so the buy out is in progress, plus kahn is over there talking with him.

 

[Wheels]

^ Okie Doke ^ And on the LMA not bringing much else to the table... dont know what to tell you then. I would suggest watching more Basketball.

 

[TheFreshPrince]

^ Okie Doke ^ And on the LMA not bringing much else to the table... dont know what to tell you then. I would suggest watching more Basketball.

hah, didn't mean it like that. The guy is rock, i just don't think he has tremendous value. He does a bit of everything without hurting the team much if at all. You know guys like bosh, jefferson, boozer have higher much higher value, but are maybe only slightly better than him, if at all. The guy just isn't spectacular at anything.

 

[graybeard]

talented players have chemistry. I'd guess that Rubio would have more chemistry with Roy then Rudy.

STOMP

Yeah right, Zach Randolf had chemistry.

 

[graybeard]

I don't see us trading Blake to Minnesota, a veteran backup has little value to a young rebuilding team, he has a lot more value to us.

I'd love a Bayless/Travis/future 1st's for Rubio deal but I don't know if that'd be enough. Giving up Rudy would be risky, I'd rather give up Batum. Losing either of those two would be painful, that's where the GM has to really do his research on Rubio.

I can't believe you said that.

 

[Chutney]

I'm also wondering why Blazers fans are so convinced that Rubio is dead-set against playing in Minnesota. I've read lazy speculation by columnists that didn't know anything about him until the draft, but that's about it. There certainly hasn't been anything to warrant jumping from "maybe he's available" to "This proposal's the best Minnesota can get."

My guess is that he negotiates a 1 year contract with another European team (eg: Real Madrid). That team doesn't face NBA restrictions and can pay a larger percentage of his Joventut buyout, and he can make his new contract much easier to navigate out of.

 

[STOMP]

Yeah right, Zach Randolf had chemistry.

When they dealt him Randolph wasn't anywhere in the vicinity of the talent Roy currently is. He was one of the worst defensive Bigs in the league and a black hole on the other end. Just a horrible counter point example to the point I made about talent and chemistry.

STOMP

 

[TheFreshPrince]

I'm also wondering why Blazers fans are so convinced that Rubio is dead-set against playing in Minnesota. I've read lazy speculation by columnists that didn't know anything about him until the draft, but that's about it. There certainly hasn't been anything to warrant jumping from "maybe he's available" to "This proposal's the best Minnesota can get."

My guess is that he negotiates a 1 year contract with another European team (eg: Real Madrid). That team doesn't face NBA restrictions and can pay a larger percentage of his Joventut buyout, and he can make his new contract much easier to navigate out of.

exactly, something is going to happen. Why the hell would Kahn trade foye and miller for garbage? Rubio has value and wants to play in the nba. Columnists with nothing better to do just make shit up. Give this time, like i said he has already offered something, so it is in the works, and DKV is desperate for the money.

 

[graybeard]

When they dealt him Randolph wasn't anywhere in the vicinity of the talent Roy currently is. He was one of the worst defensive Bigs in the league and a black hole on the other end. Just a horrible counter point example to the point I made about talent and chemistry.

STOMP

I can't figure out what you're talking about. You said that talented players have chemistry, I'm just saying it's bullshit. Zach had talent, and should not be used in the same sentence as chemistry. Same with AI.

 

[Idog1976]

you guys are so ridiculous lol. Your players AREN'T VERY GOOD. you guys have a good system with one great player and one really good player with a bunch of role players and you think they are worth the best young pg to come out in years? Sure he may be a bust, but the fact is we don't know yet so his value is VERY high.

phantom pick? what makes you say that? He has a huge buyout because his over protective parents screwed him on a deal when he was 14. He has said a couple of times. That he is blessed to be able to play with big Al and Love and that minnesota is a great fit for him.

How many of your players would start for more than half the league besides LA and Roy?????
the answer is none...... lol, rudy needs more minutes to prove something, blake is mediocre, oden is garbage so far, maybe he'll turn it around, bayless is losing value left and right, batum is unproven, outlaw is mediocre. You guys really crack me up. You actually believe these role players are studs. Gomes would start day 1 for you guys.

It's funny because your attitude is actually refreshing. I get lambasted when I suggest trading Rudy for a player like Rubio because it's OVERPAYING. Glad to see a fan from another team waking up this board to the reality of how our players are viewed outside of this fan base.

You are of course over valuing your guys as well

 

[STOMP]

I can't figure out what you're talking about.

coming from someone who lists Zach as a talent, thats not surprising. Dude's deficiencies arguably matched his positives. He's an okay starter talent at best... you have seen what the trade market has valued him at right? If you think a mixed bag like ZR is comparable to an all around stud like Roy, communication problems will happen

my point is that Roy is a better talent then Rudy. On or off the ball he's the better player who'd present Ricky with more options to be effective as a tandem. Whatever familiarity 23 year old Rudy has built up playing with this 18 year old kid would be matched shortly into a NBA season.

STOMP

 

[Idog1976]

ummmmmm, no

Rubio has higher value than anyone besides roy, and love has higher than anyone besides roy and LA. And Gomes is equal or better than outlaw. We gave up foye and miller for rubio, why would we do this, AND lose love?

Let me ask you a different question. What about Flynn? You think he's tradeable since you're so certain that Rubio is coming over?

 

[TheFreshPrince]

It's funny because your attitude is actually refreshing. I get lambasted when I suggest trading Rudy for a player like Rubio because it's OVERPAYING. Glad to see a fan from another team waking up this board to the reality of how our players are viewed outside of this fan base.

You are of course over valuing your guys as well

of course lol, but with rubio, it is really hard to put a value you on him. right now, its sky high, especially considering we gave up miller and foye for him, our only talented/proven perimeter guys besides gomes. It is just crazy how much you guys value rudy and everyone else. I think rudy is pretty good. But no one has seen enough of him to just give up a ton. KP/your coach is ruining all those guys' value because no one gets to seem them prove anything.

 

[Blaze01]

Bayless/Outlaw for Rubio/Qrich (saves them money and adds young talent)

It would take more than that to pry Rubio away from MIN....adding Batum (or Rudy) would have to be done....my preference would be for Batum, as POR has players there to step in (Webster\Cunningham\Roy could play there as well in certain situations), whereas Rudy has the capability to play some PG (alongside Roy), serves as a b\u, insurance against injuries to Roy and IMO is\will be a better player....

Start with that (Batum\Bayless\Outlaw) and then go from there if need be (1st round draft pick, Freeland, etc...)...

But listening to KAHN!!!!!! it seems more like he wouldn't trade him, until he at least sees what type of player Rubio is.....which I can't necessarily blame him for.....drafting Flynn & Rubio though was a dumb mistake though, no matter how he tries to spin it....

Your players AREN'T VERY GOOD. you guys have a good system with one great player and one really good player with a bunch of role players and you think they are worth the best young pg to come out in years? Sure he may be a bust, but the fact is we don't know yet so his value is VERY high.

That works both ways BTW (not knowing)...and to say that POR players aren't very good on a team that won 54 games (how many did MIN win again last year?)...is a ridiculous statement....

Want to bet which team has a better record this year? I mean since our players (outside of Roy) aren't very good and all, this should be a no brainer for you, right?

 

[STOMP]

of course lol, but with rubio, it is really hard to put a value you on him. right now, its sky high, especially considering we gave up miller and foye for him, our only talented/proven perimeter guys besides gomes. It is just crazy how much you guys value rudy and everyone else. I think rudy is pretty good. But no one has seen enough of him to just give up a ton. KP/your coach is ruining all those guys' value because no one gets to seem them prove anything.

so to recap, Rubio's value is "sky high" because Minni gave up on the overpaid and mediocre Mike Miller and injury prone and mediocre Randy Foye, and you're accusing Blazer fans of overvaluing their players?

Classic Pot/Kettle

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

so to recap, Rubio's value is "sky high" because Minni gave up on the overpaid and mediocre Mike Miller and injury prone and mediocre Randy Foye, and you're accusing Blazer fans of overvaluing their players?

Classic Pot/Kettle

STOMP

But...but...but....Miller was a ROY, and Foye was drafted before Roy! They must be better!

Oh well - how much fun would it be if we were all perfectly reasonable, instead of being rabid homers?

 

[TheFreshPrince]

Let me ask you a different question. What about Flynn? You think he's tradeable since you're so certain that Rubio is coming over?

I think flynn is nothing special and would LOVE to trade him, but no, because we have NO depth now. Kahn is butchering our roster. We have no talent left whatsoever.

Lol, you guys just read what you want to read instead of what i'm saying. I never said the wolves were better or had better players. I'm saying your role player aren't very good. Gomes would start on your roster instantly and you all know that.

to stomp, Miller is not mediocre, he is pretty much solid at everything and a great role player. Foye has struggled with injuries and still averaged 16 ppg last year. I have no beef with us picking roy over foye. I still think foye is a very good player, roy turned out better, but that doesn't mean i'm bitter. It's funny the assumptions people make when they are exposed and have nothing else to say but random insults.

Here is all i was saying about rubio's value to the T'wolves:
We traded our only good perimeter player (and one of the more quality young guys with plenty of potential left) and miller, our only other quality player that we were willing to easily part with for a very very very highly touted rookie. Sooooo, to the twolves, he is very important to us and has huge value. WE got rid of all our perimeter talent for him, so yeah, he has huge value, not talent.

How about you actually read what i say instead of assuming

 

[STOMP]

Lol, you guys just read what you want to read instead of what i'm saying. I never said the wolves were better or had better players. I'm saying your role player aren't very good. Gomes would start on your roster instantly and you all know that.

unintentional humor makes me happy You should start a poll on this

to stomp, Miller is not mediocre, he is pretty much solid at everything and a great role player.

when did defense stop being half the game? He's one of the absolute worst in the game... he makes defensive baby giraffe Travis Outlaw look like PIP.

Foye has struggled with injuries and still averaged 16 ppg last year.

Jacking up a ton of shots doesn't make someone a valuable player, making shots does. His 41% FG% is reflected in his PER. 15 is the mean (average) for an NBA player and Foye's 14.0 PER this last season was his best in three years in the league. I called him injury prone (which he has been) and mediocre... how can you have a beef with this?

btw... Rudy's rookie year PER was 15.4, but we're the homers

I have no beef with us picking roy over foye. I still think foye is a very good player, roy turned out better, but that doesn't mean i'm bitter. It's funny the assumptions people make when they are exposed and have nothing else to say but random insults.

good, we're still not bitter about how things worked out either.

Here is all i was saying about rubio's value to the T'wolves:
We traded our only good perimeter player (and one of the more quality young guys with plenty of potential left) and miller, our only other quality player that we were willing to easily part with for a very very very highly touted rookie. Sooooo, to the twolves, he is very important to us and has huge value. WE got rid of all our perimeter talent for him, so yeah, he has huge value, not talent.

what sort of value will he bring to the Wolves if (as expected) he's playing in Europe next season? I'm guessing this offseason's moves will help equate to an excellent shot at the top pick.

STOMP

 

[TheFreshPrince]

unintentional humor makes me happy You should start a poll on this

when did defense stop being half the game? He's one of the absolute worst in the game... he makes defensive baby giraffe Travis Outlaw look like PIP.

Jacking up a ton of shots doesn't make someone a valuable player, making shots does. His 41% FG% is reflected in his PER. 15 is the mean (average) for an NBA player and Foye's 14.0 PER this last season was his best in three years in the league. I called him injury prone (which he has been) and mediocre... how can you have a beef with this?

btw... Rudy's rookie year PER was 15.4, but we're the homers

good, we're still not bitter about how things worked out either.

what sort of value will he bring to the Wolves if (as expected) he's playing in Europe next season? I'm guessing this offseason's moves will help equate to an excellent shot at the top pick.

STOMP

A poll would make no sense, you guys are obsessed with you mediocre players. Foye had such a bad per because he was our only skilled guard, and mchale wanted him to shoot as much as possible. If you had watched us, you would know that. Rudy's per is high, because he played sporadic minutes on a good team, that helps a lot. IF Rubio plays in europe, better value. He gets better, stronger, and older while still suck and get a higher pick. Him staying doesn't hurt us in the slightest, we can wait, so he has nothing to bargain with.

And why the hell does everyone think miller is a garbage defender???? I didn't know being white meant you sucked on defense. Every time i have watched miller on d he is doing a very good job. He rebounds way above average for a 2 guard, and his very hard working on defense. But whatever, he's white so he sucks. I love the subtle racism still so ingrained in sports.

 

[hasoos]

Why the fuck should I care if Rubio is coming over. He is on a different team. Get over it.

 

[LittleAlex]

Why the fuck should I care if Rubio is coming over. He is on a different team. Get over it.

I care just because I want to see if he can live up to the hype.

 

[STOMP]

A poll would make no sense, you guys are obsessed with you mediocre players.

oh please start one. Suggesting we all know that Ryan Gomes, coming off a year where he posted a 12.5 PER, would start ahead of Batum is comedy... a poll would make for more fun for everyone! But we're the one's obsessed with mediocre players

Foye had such a bad per because he was our only skilled guard, and mchale wanted him to shoot as much as possible. If you had watched us, you would know that.

I drafted him in my fantasy league last year and dropped him about a 1/3rd of the way through the season after watching him many games with fingers crossed... I finally deciding he wasn't going to ever pan out because he wasn't that good. I'd thought with health and basically nobody in front of him he might blossom with his opportunity.

Rudy's per is high, because he played sporadic minutes on a good team, that helps a lot.

Your theory here has so many holes I don't know where to begin. Rudy played 25.6 MPG, thats hardly sporadic. Your theories on what roles players benefit most in are... uncommon. Most feel that consistent big minutes (25+) allow players to get into their groove and play to their abilities. Rudy and Randy both had great opportunities... a foreign rookie two years younger just did more with his.

IF Rubio plays in europe, better value. He gets better, stronger, and older while still suck and get a higher pick. Him staying doesn't hurt us in the slightest, we can wait, so he has nothing to bargain with.

thats cool... if I were a Wolves fan I'd probably rather he stay overseas too. Better to suck a lot now and let him develop a bit more. Can ownership be patient with the low ticket sales that come with truly sucking though...

And why the hell does everyone think miller is a garbage defender????

everyone is wrong and you're right... I'm sensing a theme here

I didn't know being white meant you sucked on defense. Every time i have watched miller on d he is doing a very good job. He rebounds way above average for a 2 guard, and his very hard working on defense. But whatever, he's white so he sucks. I love the subtle racism still so ingrained in sports.

No one has mentioned skin color/race. This is just you, all alone, projecting completely baseless crap because the whole world disagrees with you.

STOMP

 

[TheFreshPrince]

oh please start one. Suggesting we all know that Ryan Gomes, coming off a year where he posted a 12.5 PER, would start ahead of Batum is comedy... a poll would make for more fun for everyone! But we're the one's obsessed with mediocre players

I drafted him in my fantasy league last year and dropped him about a 1/3rd of the way through the season after watching him many games with fingers crossed... I finally deciding he wasn't going to ever pan out because he wasn't that good. I'd thought with health and basically nobody in front of him he might blossom with his opportunity.

Your theory here has so many holes I don't know where to begin. Rudy played 25.6 MPG, thats hardly sporadic. Your theories on what roles players benefit most in are... uncommon. Most feel that consistent big minutes (25+) allow players to get into their groove and play to their abilities. Rudy and Randy both had great opportunities... a foreign rookie two years younger just did more with his.

thats cool... if I were a Wolves fan I'd probably rather he stay overseas too. Better to suck a lot now and let him develop a bit more. Can ownership be patient with the low ticket sales that come with truly sucking though...

everyone is wrong and you're right... I'm sensing a theme here

No one has mentioned skin color/race. This is just you, all alone, projecting completely baseless crap because the whole world disagrees with you.

STOMP

so because you didn't have an argument, you just insulted me? alright, that's cool. Stop obsessing with per. The wolves were a terrible team last year that tried A LOT of different things. Some worked, most did not. Because of this, our players struggled, all of them at different times. McHale was really working this team to be ready a few years down the road. He was doing a great job imo, i'm pretty upset he is gone. If you would actually watch gomes play, you would know that he is a better outside shooter than both batum and outlaw, probably about even in defensive ability, maybe a little less than batum, but gomes is much bigger and stronger. Gomes is a better rebounder, passer, and scorer. He is a great glue guy. But when you play on a bad team, being a glue guy doesn't help much, and he struggled accordingly.


About the miller thing. Whatever. I guess i'm the only one that sees a good defender. The only reason i can imagine people thinking he sucks wihtout watching him is because of his race, which happens all the time in basketball. Every white draft pick that comes out, is listed as a bad defender. It's just what people do. They label players based on stereotypes. How many times have you actually watched miller play recently?

 

[hielo español]

My personal opinion is that Rubio will be a great player one day but at the moment he is acting like a spoiled brat.

It may well have benefited him to stay in Spain longer and Real Madrid wouldn't be the worst move in the world for him but it is the way he is going about it that stinks and also if he was drafted by NYK then he wouldn't be thinking about Spain.

If I was a Timberwolves fan I'd be gutted. An immense potential but he wants nothing to do with your franchise and openly sees you as a stepping stone.