OT: Sheed to Cleveland?

[KingSpeed]

I would rather the Clippers keep stinking, and then move their team to Seattle, so we could get 4 more wins a year.

We would likely play the Clippers the same amount of times as we would play Seattle.

 

[Big Frame]

Sheed pisses me off. All he does is shoot threes all game, gets a tech at the worst moment and never EVER goes into the paint.

 

[bbwchingy0007]

Oh, come on, Ed. Surely you don't believe this. The people who vote players into the Hall of Fame are students of the game. They know that Wallace didn't like playing in the paint, despite his ability to dominate there, and that he loved to stand around and jack up 3-pointers. They also know about his crucial defensive mistake against Horry (was it Horry?) that may have cost the Pistons a championship. And they're certainly going to remember his setting the record for technical fouls 2 years in a row, and getting kicked out of games, and attacking a referee after a game, and refusing to lift weights with the rest of the Blazer team, and throwing the towel in Sabonis' face, etc., etc. Wallace has been a petulant, spoiled brat for his whole career, and that is a fact. Those kinds of players don't get into the Hall of Fame, and neither will Wallace.

That said, however, I actually think he might be a good addition for Cleveland. He never wanted to be "the man" anywhere he played, and in Cleveland he wouldn't have to be. They'd probably let him stand around and jack up 3-pointers to his heart's content, which he is fairly good at, and that might be just enough to put the Cavs over the top next year.

Good point on the three pointers. If the Cavs make their threes at the same rate as in the rest of the season in the Conference Finals, they would have won the series. Even if they hit them in line with Orlando's defensive three point rating, they still would have won at least two of the games they lost (though might have lost one they won). What the Cavs really needed was clutch shooting, or someone else to step up besides LeBron. Wallace could be that guy, but there's two issues with him. Firstly he's aging, LeBron needs a team that has Dynasty-potential in order to stay in Cleveland, making the acquisitions this offseason, next season and next offseason crucially important. I'm not so sure Wallace can fit that bill. Second, the Cavs thrive on the chemisty they have, and Wallace strikes me as the kind of player who could ruin that, whether its with his incessant complaining and arguing or just his general attitude. That's not the kind of player the Cavs need right now.

 

[Stevenson]

Ed - stats may favor you, but the general perception is that Sheed is a clown and gives the league a blackeye more than he does anything good. And writers don't like him. THAT is why he has zero H of F chance. Zero.

 

[RoyToy]

Not even close. Hall of fame? He was definitely all-star quality during his Portland years, but never lived up to his potential. He had the talent to be a hall of fame caliber, but never lived up to it.

Don't know what you're thinking, but being apart of championship teams doesn't necessarily make you a hall of famer. Will Robert Horry get in?

Not a chance.

edit - Same with Rasheed.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

The Cavs must be dreaming to think that Sheed is going to neutralize Dwight Howard. And Zbo? Wow.

 

[Sinobas]

"Living up to his potential" is irrelevant. No one will (or should) look at a player and say, "Yes, he was a hall of fame player, but he could have been top 10 all-time", or "Yes, he's won a pair of championships but could have won twice as many". Failure to live up to artificial expectations is... well, an artificial criticism.

As far as the Horry comparison... what stats is Horry top 60 career in? How many all-star games did Horry make? Comparing Horry to Rasheed is silly.

Ed O.

But Horry has won championships on many different teams, and hit many game winners that kept his team alive. Doesn't that prove he should be in the HOF?

 

[Minstrel]

But Horry has won championships on many different teams, and hit many game winners that kept his team alive. Doesn't that prove he should be in the HOF?

Why would it? Ed is arguing that Sheed deserves it both due to his individual accomplishments and team success, in combination. Horry only has team success.

I don't agree with Ed, but you're misrepresenting his argument. He didn't say Sheed deserves it purely due to being a part of championship(s).

 

[Ed O]

OK. I'm a bit more sober today. I think will take a half-step back based on that and the reasoned arguments presented in this thread:

-- I think that Rasheed, with a strong finish to his career individually and with his team, will retire as a borderline Hall of Famer
-- I think that, as he is now, he is not at that level
-- I think that it's very very unlikely that he will finish strongly enough to be a shoe-in for the HOF... if he joins Cleveland and is second banana to LeBron for three straight titles, I could see is becoming likely he'd join (rather than be borderline), but that simply is not very likely

As for my stronger position from last night...

[video=youtube;UYc875zkDxg]

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

The main problem with Sheed's Hall of Fame candidacy (beyond things like voters potentially disliking him) is that he never had a dominant peak. He arguably has the career value for a Hall of Famer, but generally Hall of Fame cases are built on both career value and peak value. Sheed's peak value is very low, by Hall of Fame standards. He was never a dominant player.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_career.html

Look at the guys ahead of him who, theoretically, should get in before he does. Horry is one of them

 

[julius]

As for my stronger position from last night...



Ed O.

You're blaming it on Jamie Foxx? Or T-Pain?

Wait, you aren't blaming it on Opie Cunningham, are you!?

 

[Sedatedfork]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_career.html

Look at the guys ahead of him who, theoretically, should get in before he does. Horry is one of them

Washington Wizards currently have 3 players from that list, not that the list means anything, but you would think with 3 pretty skilled veteran players they should be better than they have been for the last 3 years.

 

[Denny Crane]

Washington Wizards currently have 3 players from that list, not that the list means anything, but you would think with 3 pretty skilled veteran players they should be better than they have been for the last 3 years.

Injuries.

Even with two of the three hurt, they were pretty good season before this one (43 wins).

 

[RickyRubio]

He's top 60 all-time in the following stats:

-- 3 pointers made (55th)
-- Defensive rebounds (40th)
-- Blocks (37th)
-- Turnover % (44th)
-- Defensive Win Shares (30th)
-- Win Shares (50th)

I didn't realize he was that good at shot blocking. Too bad he couldn't have blocked Kobes alley-oop to Shaq in the WCF a few years back

 

[Shooter]

If somebody like Rashweed Wallace can get into the Hall of Fame, then it's a total joke. A Hall of Fame should be reserved for truly extraordinary players who have some transcendent quality to their game. Wallace qualifies on neither account. He's been a slacker his entire career, and has always shrunk from a leadership role.

Now, if you're talking about the Hall of Shame, then yes, Rashweed qualifies.

 

[RickyRubio]

If somebody like Rashweed Wallace can get into the Hall of Fame, then it's a total joke. A Hall of Fame should be reserved for truly extraordinary players who have some transcendent quality to their game. Wallace qualifies on neither account. He's been a slacker his entire career, and has shrunk from a leadershp role.

Now, if you're talking about the Hall of Shame, then yes, Rashweed qualifies.

What, technical fouls don't count as a HoF stat?!