(OT) Twitterverse going nuts about Jerry Sloan right now

[Minstrel]

He quit a week after signing an extension for next season. He quit on his team because of a rift with one player. I don't find that very honorable. The situation was good enough to sign an extension last week, but last night was just too much for him?

If the Jazz were going to fire him if he didn't step down, what are you saying Sloan should have done? Insisted on being escorted from the premises by police, to avoid being a quitter?

 

[hasoos]

Sloan and Adelman are in the same category to me. Very good, but not 'great' in terms of all-time coaches. As for Sloan's "best teams", he managed to lose to a 6th-seeded Houston Rocket team 4-1 in the 1994 playoffs. Jordan wasn't playing that season.

Really and how many titles would they have won with Jordan and Pippen? Are you saying that if they had coaches Chicago, the Bulls would not have won titles in that time?

 

[andalusian]

Sloan and Adelman are in the same category to me. Very good, but not 'great' in terms of all-time coaches. As for Sloan's "best teams", he managed to lose to a 6th-seeded Houston Rocket team 4-1 in the 1994 playoffs. Jordan wasn't playing that season.

You mean, they ran into Hakeem at his peak. They ran into another buzzsaw. If you look at playoff production over the magical 26 PER (where people get into MVP discussion usually) - there were only 25 players instances where a player managed this kind of playoffs PER (and over at least 15 games - which would ensure that that they passed at least 2 rounds making it a proper long period of domination). By playoffs PER in this elite group - Hakeem's playoffs stand at #12 in the history of the NBA. He was absolutely magnificent that year and managed to win the ring and playoffs MVP title.

 

[PapaG]

If the Jazz were going to fire him if he didn't step down, what are you saying Sloan should have done? Insisted on being escorted from the premises by police, to avoid being a quitter?

Wouldn't it seem likely that the alleged "firing" was more about Sloan's antics last night than it was about anything else? If the Jazz thought enough of him to give him an extension last week, then it seems that Sloan lit the fuse of whatever happened over the past two days.

Fired or quitting, it seems likely to be primarily due to his actions (or words) last night. He chose to quit. Whatever.

 

[PapaG]

You mean, they ran into Hakeem at his peak. They ran into another buzzsaw. If you look at playoff production over the magical 26 PER (where people get into MVP discussion usually) - there were only 25 players instances where a player managed this kind of playoffs PER (and over at least 15 games - which would ensure that that they passed at least 2 rounds making it a proper long period of domination). By playoffs PER in this elite group - Hakeem's playoffs stand at #12 in the history of the NBA. He was absolutely magnificent that year and managed to win the ring and playoffs MVP title.

They lost and didn't win a title. Just like every other season that Sloan coached them. My worry is that they get someone who will let Deron Williams play ball instead of within a system that has proven to not win titles. If Williams decides to stay, they still have a very good line-up.

How a team starting Deron Williams, Paul Millsap, Al Jefferson, Andre Kirilenko, and Raja Bell could lost 10 of 14 games confounds me. Perhaps Williams and the other players were sick of Sloan undercoaching their talent?

 

[e_blazer]

Sloan = old school personified
Williams = Today's NBA Superstar culture

Not too surprising that they don't mix.

 

[PapaG]

Sloan = old school personified
Williams = Today's NBA Superstar culture

Not too surprising that they don't mix.

It was interesting listening to Stockton talk about his own clashes with Sloan on ESPN. Perhaps Sloan is an example of a very good coach and motivator who ultimately didn't have the flexibility to yield a bit on his methods, which led to friction with some players like Stockton and Williams. Who knows if the energy-draining friction was the reason those Jazz teams consistently failed in the playoffs, but perhaps it played a small part.

 

[Blazinaway]

Yes, at least in the manner that Sloan left the Jazz. I put Larry Brown in the same category, and called him a quitter as well.



He quit a week after signing an extension for next season. He quit on his team because of a rift with one player. I don't find that very honorable. The situation was good enough to sign an extension last week, but last night was just too much for him?

he quit because mgmt would not back him up when a player refused to run the play he called - so who really quit on who? I say mgmt quit on him by not backing him up so WTF else was he to do?

 

[PapaG]

Really and how many titles would they have won with Jordan and Pippen? Are you saying that if they had coaches Chicago, the Bulls would not have won titles in that time?

They didn't win titles. I'm not into hypotheticals. Sloan coached 2 PGs better than any PG in Blazer history, and one PF better than any PF in Blazer history, and in 20 seasons with those PGs (15 with the PF), he made 2 NBA Finals. Statistically, Boozer was better than any PF in Blazer history outside of a few great Mo Lucas seasons as well.

 

[PapaG]

he quit because mgmt would not back him up when a player refused to run the play he called - so who really quit on who? I say mgmt quit on him by not backing him up so WTF else was he to do?

What's management going to do? Suspend Williams? Sloan finally let his pride get the best of him, and in doing so, he quit on his team. Management gave him an extension three days ago, yet now they quit on him? Sloan finally had a player who basically told him to fuck off, and Jerry threw a hissy fit and quit. Let's compare that to the Nate/Miller explosion last year, where both guys went at it for a reported 30 minutes, but ultimately found out that they had a lot more in common than they thought they did prior to that incident.

I suppose Nate could have run to management to fight that battle for him once Miller started questioning him, but Nate did not, and then Nate took responsibility for the fight, but not the positives that came out of the fight. Compared to how Sloan handled things, Nate looks really good considering he used to be called "Sarge" by his players.

 

[Blazinaway]

What's management going to do? Suspend Williams? Sloan finally let his pride get the best of him, and in doing so, he quit on his team. Management gave him an extension three days ago, yet now they quit on him? Sloan finally had a player who basically told him to fuck off, and Jerry threw a hissy fit and quit. Let's compare that to the Nate/Miller explosion last year, where both guys went at it for a reported 30 minutes, but ultimately found out that they had a lot more in common than they thought they did prior to that incident.

I suppose Nate could have run to management to fight that battle for him once Miller started questioning him, but Nate did not, and then Nate took responsibility for the fight, but not the positives that came out of the fight. Compared to how Sloan handled things, Nate looks really good considering he used to be called "Sarge" by his players.

Yeah, why not suspend Williams? Are the players running teams now? gimme a friggin break, look where we've come to when you think that somehow Williams should or could not be suspended for defying a coach - unreal to me.

 

[PapaG]

Yeah, why not suspend Williams? Are the players running teams now? gimme a friggin break, look where we've come to when you think that somehow Williams should or could not be suspended for defying a coach - unreal to me.

It happens much more often that you think. Elite quarterbacks are allowed to call audibles depending on the defense. Stockton had the same issues with Sloan that Williams was having last night. And since Sloan ran crying to management, what would you think they would do? Side with a coach who has proven he can't win without an elite PG and PF, or a PG who has shown interest in staying in SLC, but not with that coach? I would have told Sloan to patch things up and deal with it. His stubborn style of coaching hasn't brought any titles to Utah, has it?

 

[MickZagger]

lol. People who always take contrarian positions just to rile up a Blazer message board need a life.

Continue on with the narrative.

 

[Shooter]

No. Great is Pop, Jackson, and Riley . . .

Phil Jackson, who had the luxury of coaching the best players in the game when he won his championships. First it was Jordan and Pippen, then Shaq and Kobe, then Kobe and Gasol. The guy has refused to coach any team without superstars; at least Sloan never did that.

 

[oldguy]

Anyone that doesn't have Red Auerbach on their list of great coaches must not be old enough to remember him and his teams.

Go Blazers

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Phil Jackson, who had the luxury of coaching the best players in the game when he won his championships. First it was Jordan and Pippen, then Shaq and Kobe, then Kobe and Gasol. The guy has refused to coach any team without superstars; at least Sloan never did that.

Didn't Jackson continue to coach the Bulls even after Jordan first retired?

So three years with Pippen as your team's best player and no other real star is not really refusing to coach a team without superstars.

 

[PapaG]

Phil Jackson, who had the luxury of coaching the best players in the game when he won his championships. First it was Jordan and Pippen, then Shaq and Kobe, then Kobe and Gasol. The guy has refused to coach any team without superstars; at least Sloan never did that.

Sloan didn't make the playoffs without Stockton and Malone. He couldn't get his own superstar players over the top to ta title.

 

[PapaG]

Anyone that doesn't have Red Auerbach on their list of great coaches must not be old enough to remember him and his teams.

Go Blazers

We were talking about the past 20-25 years, if you had actually read the "great" coach debate. Of course Auerbach is on the list. He's the greatest NBA coach in history, IMO, and his biography that was written after his death by a close friend of his is must reading for any NBA fan.

 

[Rodolfo]

Always hated the Malone/Stockton teams/years, but i always like and respected Jerry as a coach. The Man deserves to step down whenever the fuck he wants to after all he's done as an NBA coach. All you a**holes questioning the man's character need to stfu. Wish him the best of luck in future endeavours.

 

[PapaG]

Always hated the Malone/Stockton teams/years, but i always like and respected Jerry as a coach. The Man deserves to step down whenever the fuck he wants to after all he's done as an NBA coach. All you a**holes questioning the man's character need to stfu. Wish him the best of luck in future endeavours.

Who is questioning his character? I am calling him a quitter. He just quit on a playoff team. That's a fact. How that impacts people's thoughts on his character is another story. I always thought of him as a steadfast and unyielding person in terms of the character I was able to deduce from his public image. He's a strong personality who finally quit on his own terms, IMO. There is something admirable about that, but it still means he quit on his team.

 

[KingSpeed]

John Amaechi said Jerry Sloan was a "cruel person," the worst person he's ever met. And in 20 years, Sloan never won shit. He had maybe the best PG and PF of all time! Phil would've won several titles with those guys. Good riddance, Jerry.

 

[KingSpeed]

I disagree. He just happened to coach his best teams when Michael Jordan was playing. Just like how we had some of the best Blazer teams turned away by Michael Jordan. Those were some damn fine teams that just ran into a buzzsaw from hell. All of the coaches you mention above, work on franchises that seem to have no problem getting the talent they want, except for a couple on the list, Sloan and Adelman.

If Phil coached Karl Malone and Stockton, MJ would've been remembered as a guy who was too selfish to ever win a title.

 

[KingSpeed]

Didn't Jackson continue to coach the Bulls even after Jordan first retired?

So three years with Pippen as your team's best player and no other real star is not really refusing to coach a team without superstars.

Yes but not for three years. Just one and a half years.

92-93 Jordan

93-94 no Jordan

94-95 Jordan returns mid season

By the way, the 93-94 Bulls were damn good and would've probably won the title if not for a bad call on a phantom foul against Hubert Davis.

 

[LittleAlex]

John Amaechi said Jerry Sloan was a "cruel person," the worst person he's ever met. And in 20 years, Sloan never won shit. He had maybe the best PG and PF of all time! Phil would've won several titles with those guys. Good riddance, Jerry.

In a legacy of stupid things you have said, this may very well be the dumbest.

His teams made the playoffs all but two years.
He made the finals twice and the second round multiple times.

The Jazz team that existed after Malone and Stockton left still managed to be respectable.

Apparently you think Aldelman is a pile of shit.
He never won a damn thing.

Ramsey only won a single title, the fucking loser.

Come to think of it, look at all the Blazer players that never won a title.
Porter sucks.
Buck Williams is a pile of shit.
Fuck Sabonis, what a choker.


Well either that or the idea that not winning a title makes a player/coach worthless is fucking stupid.
Take your pick.

 

[THE HCP]

John Amaechi said Jerry Sloan was a "cruel person," the worst person he's ever met. And in 20 years, Sloan never won shit. He had maybe the best PG and PF of all time! Phil would've won several titles with those guys. Good riddance, Jerry.

What if John was an overly sensitive person? The meanest and most cruel people I ever dealt with did the most for me. My drill sergeants were cruel as fuck, but set me straight and taught me how to be a man. Sloan seems like a drill sergeant and some people can't handle that.

 

[PapaG]

If the Jazz were going to fire him if he didn't step down, what are you saying Sloan should have done? Insisted on being escorted from the premises by police, to avoid being a quitter?

By all reports, that was not the case. I'm not sure why you had to lie to try and make a point. My bad for believing the premise of your question.

The All-Star point guard insisted there is no truth to the rumors that he forced the Hall of Fame coach out, and general manager Kevin O'Connor also said it was false that Williams gave management a "me or him" ultimatum.

"I would never force coach Sloan out of Utah," Williams said, deriding the media for twisting stories. "He's meant more to this town, more to this organization than I have by far. I would have asked out of Utah first."

Sloan, who was choked up and wiped away tears during his farewell announcement Thursday, said there was no final straw. He simply said he didn't have the energy to coach any more, and that the losses were getting tougher and tougher to handle.

"I could have done it last week, done it a week before that or waited another week," said Sloan, who has always thought it appropriate to conduct his pregame interviews next to a trash bin. "When it's time for me to go, it's time for me to go."

The one thing that did surprise Sloan was that longtime assistant Phil Johnson joined him in retiring.

"I came with him and I'll leave with him," the 69-year-old Johnson said Thursday.

Jazz CEO Greg Miller and other top team officials tried to talk Sloan out of retiring and insisted that no one forced either coach out. O'Connor said he even begged both to stay. Team officials made a second pitch Thursday morning after telling Sloan to sleep on it.

He did, like a baby.

"Best I've slept in six weeks," Sloan later quipped.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/41521829

It was 100% Sloan's decision, and the Jazz wanted him to stay.

 

[Minstrel]

By all reports, that was not the case. I'm not sure why you had to lie to try and make a point. My bad for believing the premise of your question.

I love your angry man routine. Do you do parties?

I didn't lie. I said "IF" that was the case (go back and read the post you quoted, you'll see!)...as was being speculated at the time. I obviously had no idea what was happening behind the scenes of the Jazz and never claimed to know.

Why did you have to lie about what I said, PapaG? Why are you a liar about other people's posts? Please stop lying. You're a quality poster when you're not telling lies about what people said.

 

[PapaG]

I love your angry man routine. Do you do parties?

I didn't lie. I said "IF" that was the case (go back and read the post you quoted, you'll see!)...as was being speculated at the time. I obviously had no idea what was happening behind the scenes of the Jazz and never claimed to know.

Why did you have to lie about what I said, PapaG? Why are you a liar about other people's posts? Please stop lying. You're a quality poster when you're not telling lies about what people said.

Poor Minstrel. Always the victim. I must have missed the "if" part of this post, though.

Also, it doesn't matter that he was basically stepping down because it was apparently that or being fired?

To me, I read it as you believing it was an either/or scenario. Perhaps next time you should clarify you hypotheticals, because this one reads as an assumed reality and not a hypothetical. Perhaps "allegedly" would have been a better adverb to more clearly express your point?

Why did you have to lie about using the word "if", Minstrel?

Oh, and yes, this confirms that Sloan, quite literally, was a quitter who quit on his own accord.

 

[Minstrel]

Poor Minstrel. Always the victim.

And always by you.

I must have missed the "if" part of this post, though.

Yes, that was my first post, and I did say "apparently." Realizing that it might be viewed as me claiming something as fact (which I wasn't, even then), I wrote a second point clarifying that it a theoretical.

Which leads us to this:

Perhaps next time you should clarify you hypotheticals

As noted above, that's exactly what I did. Second post clarified the first. And you did see the second post, since that's what you quoted.

So, this leads us to a new question: why are you lying about whether I clarified?

Oh, and yes, this confirms that Sloan, quite literally, was a quitter who quit on his own accord.

It does confirm that Sloan resigned without pressure. Whether that makes him a quitter will have to be left up to opinion.

 

[andalusian]

Ric Bucher blames Nic Batum:

"Actually, I'd like to put Sloan's firing on Nic Batum. He was the one who was quoted as saying Rose couldn't play D and then suddenly woke up and realized whose cage he was rattling and quickly took it back saying he never said it. I suspect Deron Williams paid a price for Batum's comment, that led to Deron getting into it with Sloan, Sloan has a talk with management...and there you go."