OT: Yi big fat liar

[handiman]

If true, he should be banned from further international competition for a period of time similar to a doping offense.

 

[alex42083]

Yeah... it's up to the team for punishing the guy but I don't see why they would do it. Mutombo could be 50 years old, no one knows.
Major League Baseball players, or at least some of the Latino ones from Cuba or the Caribbean, lie about their age to sign. It's not too big of a deal to me

 

[Minstrel]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

3. Who cares? I doubt the Bucks cared when they drafted him. I doubt the Nets care right now.

There's absolutely no way that that's true. There's a huge difference in his value if he's actually 24 instead of 21. Player ability, on average, increases non-linearly until the start of a player's prime around age 26/27. The further away from that prime a player is, the more he can be expected to improve. Jianlian was a far more interesting prospect at 21 than he is at 24 (or at 19, when the Bucks drafted him, rather than 22). If he's 21, he still has a fair amount of likely upside. If he's 24, the bulk of his development is finished and he just has incremental improvement left before he reaches his prime.

Most fans may not care because they don't realize this. The teams surely care/cared.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

There's absolutely no way that that's true. There's a huge difference in his value if he's actually 24 or 21. Player ability, on average, increases non-linearly until the start of a player's prime around age 26/27. The further away from that prime a player is, the more he can be expected to improve. Jianlian was a far more interesting prospect at 21 than he is at 24 (or at 19, when the Bucks drafted him, rather than 22). If he's 21, he still has a fair amount of likely upside. If he's 24, the bulk of his development is finished and he just has incremental improvement left before he reaches his prime.

Upside is so overrated. Most players never ever fill their potential, and this one looks no different. Yi is what he is right now, a decent player. Whether he improves or not depends solely on him, as most of his problems seem mental.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

Upside is so overrated. Most players never ever fill their potential,

If by "potential," you mean "hype" that's probably true. People claimed Jianlian could be a Chinese KG. That was almost surely never going to happen. However, studies have shown a pretty clear development path that the vast majority of athletes take, and most players are quite a bit worse at 21 than they are at 27. They're not too different at 24 than they are at 27. So those three years matter. If Jianlian were 21 right now, one could expect a lot of gains before he reached 27. If he's 24, one can't expect it (though individual players can, of course, be exceptions).

 

[B-Roy]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

If by "potential," you mean "hype" that's probably true. People claimed Jianlian could be a Chinese KG. That was almost surely never going to happen. However, studies have shown a pretty clear development path that the vast majority of athletes take, and most players are quite a bit worse at 21 than they are at 27. They're not too different at 24 than they are at 27. So those three years matter. If Jianlian were 21 right now, one could expect a lot of gains before he reached 27. If he's 24, one can't expect it (though individual players can, of course, be exceptions).

Yes, they matter, but not as much as you make it out to be. In fact, questions about his age came long before he was drafted. The Bucks must have felt it was either worth the risk to draft him despite the age concerns, or they didn't care that much about them. The same goes for the Nets when they traded for him.

 

[oldmangrouch]

It isn't so much his current value that is affected, as his value once his rookie contract is up.

Don't kid yourself, when he hits free agency, those 3 years are going to knock the bottom out of his market value.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

In fact, questions about his age came long before he was drafted. The Bucks must have felt it was either worth the risk to draft him despite the age concerns, or they didn't care that much about them. The same goes for the Nets when they traded for him.

They took the risk, because there was no evidence, at that time, for the claims that he was older than advertised.

If it had been known he were 22 at the time, I'm certain he would have been a much, much lower draft pick. Quite likely not even a first rounder.

 

[B-Roy]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

They took the risk, because there was no evidence, at that time, for the claims that he was older than advertised.

If it had been known he were 22 at the time, I'm certain he would have been a much, much lower draft pick. Quite likely not even a first rounder.

And this is evidence how? Like I said, this came from a blog, and could be easily photo-shopped.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

And this is evidence how? Like I said, this came from a blog, and could be easily photo-shopped.

I didn't say this was evidence. I said that the teams would care if he's 24 rather than 21. None of my comments have been about whether he is 24 or not.

 

[ironcrotch]

Who says nobody cares? I'm pretty sure you would care if you gave someone a few million dollars to work for you with the thought that they're a certain age and it turns out their not and they falsified documents to get more money from you. But who cares, it's only money right.

Even though this could have been easily photoshopped there is a lot of incriminating evidence to go against Yi. And it didn't just come from 'a blog', the reporter that uncovered it, I read, is pretty reputable and works for China's Sports Illustrated.

http://translate.google.com/transla...n.blog.sohu.com/106788872.html&sl=zh-CN&tl=en

I'd be pissed if I were a Nets fan.

 

[bluefrog]

If true, he should be banned from further international competition for a period of time similar to a doping offense.

I think that would be a fair punishment.

If this is legitimate proof that he lied about his age I think there are definitely people who would care. Essentially he lied to gain an advantage which is the same as doping or cheating in a game IMO. People don't like being deceived.

 

[Universe]

I'd be pissed if I were a Nets fan.

Why would we be pissed? Is his shooting range going to go down now that he is 24?

 

[B-Roy]

I think that would be a fair punishment.

If this is legitimate proof that he lied about his age I think there are definitely people who would care. Essentially he lied to gain an advantage which is the same as doping or cheating in a game IMO. People don't like being deceived.

If lying about your age is the same as doping then FUCK me!

Nets GM:

"I'm not concerned," said Nets GM Kiki Vandeweghe. "Any time you have someone who is not from this country, those issues arise. What I look at is he's a young developing player. He hasn't played a ton of basketball to this point. You can look at his body and his physical makeup and see he's obviously very talented but still maturing. Whether he's 21 or 22, he's still very young."

And like the Nets fan above stated, what's really going to change with time for Yi?

 

[Minstrel]

And like the Nets fan above stated, what's really going to change with time for Yi?

Nothing. If you like what Yi is now, great. Most people had much higher expectations for him, and he may have fulfilled them (or come a lot closer) if he still had that developmental time of a 21 year old. As a 24 year old, he's close to being a finished product.

 

[BalancedMan]

Re: OT: Li big fat liar

They took the risk, because there was no evidence, at that time, for the claims that he was older than advertised.

If it had been known he were 22 at the time, I'm certain he would have been a much, much lower draft pick. Quite likely not even a first rounder.

Even if he was 22 I still think he'd end up as a first rounder due to the Chinese money coming in and also because he wasn't that bad compared to some other late round picks. It does suck for the Nets, but at least he is still on a rookie contract. It is interesting though.

 

[Ed O]

Why would we be pissed? Is his shooting range going to go down now that he is 24?

Do you honestly think he has as bright of a future as a 24 year-old, rather than as a 21 year-old? Since most players improve both in skill level and physical capabilities rather markedly over this three year span, I know that if I were a Nets fan I would be disappointed and less optimistic about his ability to become an impact player.

Ed O.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Do you honestly think he has as bright of a future as a 24 year-old, rather than as a 21 year-old? Since most players improve both in skill level and physical capabilities rather markedly over this three year span, I know that if I were a Nets fan I would be disappointed and less optimistic about his ability to become an impact player.

Ed O.

Agreed. Put another way, he's 80% of his peak instead of 60% - and his peak will come 3 years earlier.

If it wasn't a big deal, then why'd he lie?

 

[hasoos]

I think that would be a fair punishment.

If this is legitimate proof that he lied about his age I think there are definitely people who would care. Essentially he lied to gain an advantage which is the same as doping or cheating in a game IMO. People don't like being deceived.

Except for one problem with your theory. Unlike doping, basketball players can participate in the olympics at any age. Nothing he has done takes away from his non professional sports involvement. There is no age limit in basketall. Not like Gymnastics and such. You are making a leep in logic, that should not be made.

 

[Universe]

Do you honestly think he has as bright of a future as a 24 year-old, rather than as a 21 year-old? Since most players improve both in skill level and physical capabilities rather markedly over this three year span, I know that if I were a Nets fan I would be disappointed and less optimistic about his ability to become an impact player.

Ed O.

But his NBA experince is still at two years no matter how old he is. He's progressed so much just from last year but is he suddenly going to stop once he reaches a certian age? He could find his role as an impact player when he's 30 years old or even next year depending on how he develops, not his age.

 

[number 10]

But his NBA experince is still at two years no matter how old he is. He's progressed so much just from last year but is he suddenly going to stop once he reaches a certian age? He could find his role as an impact player when he's 30 years old or even next year depending on how he develops, not his age.

sure it's possible, but he'd be breaking the trend of 99% of all players. Hoping that your particular player is going to be the exception to the general rule of player development is just setting yourself up for a letdown. For every Steve Nash there's a million Steve Blakes.

 

[Universe]

sure it's possible, but he'd be breaking the trend of 99% of all players. Hoping that your particular player is going to be the exception to the general rule of player development is just setting yourself up for a letdown. For every Steve Nash there's a million Steve Blakes.

Some of us wouldn't mind a Steve Blake. Not every player is going to be a superstar so you sometimes need those gel players and that's what I see Yi is because of his size and shooting range.

 

[Nikolokolus]

sure it's possible, but he'd be breaking the trend of 99% of all players. Hoping that your particular player is going to be the exception to the general rule of player development is just setting yourself up for a letdown. For every Steve Nash there's a million Steve Blakes.

A million Steve Blakes? Don't you mean Sebastian Telfair?

 

[number 10]

Some of us wouldn't mind a Steve Blake. Not every player is going to be a superstar so you sometimes need those gel players and that's what I see Yi is because of his size and shooting range.

Sorry, I should've clarified. No, there's nothing wrong with a Steve Blake, every team needs a few. But with the 6th pick, Milwaukee must have been expecting to get more than a role player.

 

[Universe]

Sorry, I should've clarified. No, there's nothing wrong with a Steve Blake, every team needs a few. But with the 6th pick, Milwaukee must have been expecting to get more than a role player.

Yeah but I was stating about Nets fans being pissed about Yi's age. I'm not high on Yi but he can still help us win if he uses what he has right.

The main reason we got Yi is money IMO. Just go look at the Nets website and you can get it in three languages now and 20 something games in has more hits than all of last year.

I really don't see the fanbase turning against Yi because he lied about his age because the truth is nobody knows what the goverment of China has to do with him as the Bucks said they called and complained about his playing time and everything.

 

[number 10]

Yeah but I was stating about Nets fans being pissed about Yi's age. I'm not high on Yi but he can still help us win if he uses what he has right.

The main reason we got Yi is money IMO. Just go look at the Nets website and you can get it in three languages now and 20 something games in has more hits than all of last year.

I really don't see the fanbase turning against Yi because he lied about his age because the truth is nobody knows what the goverment of China has to do with him as the Bucks said they called and complained about his playing time and everything.

So when the Nets traded for him, what were your (and Nets fans in general) expectations? I guess after a disappointing rookie season you all sort of figured he was drafted too high?

Anyway, as a NBA fan in general, I would still be upset with Yi if he really did lie about his age. Already him wanting to pick his team is bad enough, but even worse he doesn't have anywhere near enough game to back it up.

 

[Minstrel]

But his NBA experince is still at two years no matter how old he is.

That's only partially relevant. If a player comes into the league at age 40, do you expect as much improvement over his next 5 years as a 20 year old rookie? There's obviously some amount of development that comes from learning the league, but aging curves show that by far the biggest factor in development is age. And the improvement is non-linear (every year is not equal, the speed at which you develop slows the closer you get to your peak).

Those three years, if Yi is really older than he claimed, completely change his ceiling. He's currently not a very good player...as a 21 year old, he still has time to develop into a good player. At 24, with the bulk of his athletic development behind him, there's very little chance he'll become a good player.

 

[Universe]

So when the Nets traded for him, what were your (and Nets fans in general) expectations? I guess after a disappointing rookie season you all sort of figured he was drafted too high?

Anyway, as a NBA fan in general, I would still be upset with Yi if he really did lie about his age. Already him wanting to pick his team is bad enough, but even worse he doesn't have anywhere near enough game to back it up.

I was never really a fan of him. When he got traded here I wasn't disipointed because we got rid of Jeffersons contract and picked up potential. I know most fans have really high expectations for him but I'd be happy with him putting up 12 and 7 in a couple years as a good role player.

The blame really shouldn't be put on Yi for all of this because you can't tell if it's him or China doing this. With everything being such a secret there (Gymnastics team for example), it's not like Yi would turn against his country and tell them his real age. He's really in a tough situation.

 

[Universe]

That's only partially relevant. If a player comes into the league at age 40, do you expect as much improvement over his next 5 years as a 20 year old rookie? There's obviously some amount of development that comes from learning the league, but aging curves show that by far the biggest factor in development is age. And the improvement is non-linear (every year is not equal, the speed at which you develop slows the closer you get to your peak).

Those three years, if Yi is really older than he claimed, completely change his ceiling. He's currently not a very good player...as a 21 year old, he still has time to develop into a good player. At 24, with the bulk of his athletic development behind him, there's very little chance he'll become a good player.

There is a difference between 40 and 24.

Yi is already very athletic so I really didn't see him improving that. His problem is his basketball IQ and that can be learned at any age if they are willing to learn.

Just look at Antonio McDyess.

 

[Minstrel]

There is a difference between 40 and 24.

The principle is the same. It's pretty clear from studies that there is an aging curve, and being 24 means much less development left than 21 (except for very rare exceptions).

Yi is already very athletic so I really didn't see him improving that. His problem is his basketball IQ and that can be learned at any age if they are willing to learn.

Even if he becomes a little smarter on the court, athleticism and skills are tied quite strongly to age. There's a reason why age matters so much to talent evaluation of prospects. Jianlian is currently an inefficient scorer, poor passer, mediocre rebounder and poor defender. It's not just basketball IQ he needs, he needs upgrades to his skills across the board and at 24, those are quite unlikely.