Our bench is crap

[dviss1]

1. Notice present tense of "is".
2. Convince me I'm wrong.

1. Sense must not be common.
2. Why would I waste time I'd never get back?

 

[blue9]

View attachment 19888
Before we get too caught up in wanting to be more like the Spurs, please note the above standings. Paul Allen apparently has sold his soul to he devil, because in spite of having the greatest coach in the game, a far superior system, great balance and a much better bench, the Spurs are somehow, inexplicably three games behind us in the standings

Inexplicably? Hardly! We simply have a better roster than they do. We've all seen first hand how a team performs with LA as the best player - for us it was the lotto. To Pops' credit, he got them into the Playoffs.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Inexplicably? Hardly! We simply have a better roster than they do. We've all seen first hand how a team performs with LA as the best player - for us it was the lotto. To Pops' credit, he got them into the Playoffs.

I thought out GM sucked, too.

BNM

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Show me a bench that is as good as the starters on the same team?

Are you under the impression that our bench is playing our starters?

 

[blue9]

I thought out GM sucked, too.

BNM

At targeting Free Agents? Yes. At drafting? No. At trading? Ehhh.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

2. Why would I waste time I'd never get back?

You're right - you're not very convincing.

 

[riverman]

What's the point of any thread?

a sewing needle?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

sewing?

No, it's the needle that has the point.

 

[BigGameDamian]

The Blazers still need an upgrade at the SF position, 6th man and the bench if they ever want to be true championship contenders. Hopefully that can happen this summer but probably not due to the late seccses in a small market. Paul and Neil probably want to keep this group together with minor changes.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Are you under the impression that our bench is playing our starters?

Are you under the impression our bench should be as good as our starters? That's who you compared them to, or do you not remember?

How about comparing our bench to other benches before you blow a gasket. And not just one bench. Most benches....

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I think the problem with the thread is it's title. If it had been called "Our bench has been playing like crap,"
then there's really no arguing with that.

Unsurprisingly, the youngest team in the league, whose older players are starters,"have" a crappy bench....

Youth/Inexperience:
Shabazz -1st year as a rotation player
Pat - 1st year as a rotation player
Zach - 1st year as a rotation player (and hasn't started since high school!!)
Ed - injured last year, leading the league in rebounding off the bench.
Turner - Could definitely be the problem, and I can see why some would point here.

For those of you at home, that's 3 complete Noobs, 1 dude who can't shoot, and a should-be MLE player.

2nd Problem:
With all this youth, we're not very robust. "Next Man Up" would be another Noob who
hasn't ever been a rotation player, let alone starter! And right now, we're 2 men down!

Only Playoffs Matter:
If we get Ed and Mo back, then 2 of the Noobs (Pat and Bazz) will only get a few minutes a game.
If we don't get them back..... sigh.

 

[riverman]

No, it's the needle that has the point.

yet the two are ultimately connected...which came first the needle or the thread!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Are you under the impression our bench should be as good as our starters? That's who you compared them to, or do you not remember?

How about comparing our bench to other benches before you blow a gasket. And not just one bench. Most benches....

Here you go, knock yourself out:





The first table shows our bench production. The second shows our opponent's bench production. We basically have a pretty average bench, in terms of overall production. We're 17th in Deff and 19th in bench minutes. So, our overall bench production is every so slightly below the league average, but our bench ever so slightly outproduces the league average bench on a per minute basis.

Note: the eff rating this sight uses is just a very simple good - minus bad of raw traditional stats (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks - missed FGs - missed FTs - TOVs).

On the actual site, all the columns are sortable. So, you can sort by points, rebounds, etc. If you do so, you will see our bench is very low scoring (27th), but this is because C.J., who is classified as a starter, plays a lot of minutes with the bench and is our No. 1 scoring option with the second unit. That, combined with the fact that our bench is 19th in minutes helps account for, at least partially, our low bench scoring.

Our bench rebounding is outstanding. In spite of being 19th in bench minutes, we are 4th in bench rebounding. Our bench gets the most reb/minute in the league and also leads the league in bench rebounding differential (3.0). One word: Ed.

Here are the direct links to the tables on the site (sorted by the default Deff):

Own bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/diffeff/1-1

Opponent's bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/18/7/eff

BNM

 

[Sarni]

The biggest disappointment has been Napier. Over the last 4-5 weeks he has basically played himself out of a potentially good long term deal in the league.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The biggest disappointment has been Napier. Over the last 4-5 weeks he has basically played himself out of a potentially good long term deal in the league.

Yeah, he looked so damn good earlier in the season. Played like he deserved to be a starter somewhere when Dame was out back in late December/early January.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Here you go, knock yourself out:

View attachment 19897

View attachment 19896

The first table shows our bench production. The second shows our opponent's bench production. We basically have a pretty average bench, in terms of overall production. We're 17th in Deff and 19th in bench minutes. So, our overall bench production is every so slightly below the league average, but our bench ever so slightly outproduces the league average bench on a per minute basis.

Note: the eff rating this sight uses is just a very simple good - minus bad of raw traditional stats (points + rebounds + assists + steals + blocks - missed FGs - missed FTs - TOVs).

On the actual site, all the columns are sortable. So, you can sort by points, rebounds, etc. If you do so, you will see our bench is very low scoring (27th), but this is because C.J., who is classified as a starter, plays a lot of minutes with the bench and is our No. 1 scoring option with the second unit. That, combined with the fact that our bench is 19th in minutes helps account for, at least partially, our low bench scoring.

Our bench rebounding is outstanding. In spite of being 19th in bench minutes, we are 4th in bench rebounding. Our bench gets the most reb/minute in the league and also leads the league in bench rebounding differential (3.0). One word: Ed.

Here are the direct links to the tables on the site (sorted by the default Deff):

Own bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/diffeff/1-1

Opponent's bench:
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/18/7/eff

BNM

Perfect.

Thanks. @Rastapopoulos

Now can we end this ridiculous thread?

 

[blue9]

The biggest disappointment has been Napier. Over the last 4-5 weeks he has basically played himself out of a potentially good long term deal in the league.

And Aminu is regressing to his career-average (or worse) shooting percentages...

 

[Scalma]

The biggest disappointment has been Napier. Over the last 4-5 weeks he has basically played himself out of a potentially good long term deal in the league.

I think he’s playing through injuries. I have nothing to back that up with, but the drop off (especially shooting) has been too drastic to be a natural regression imo.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Perfect.

Thanks. @Rastapopoulos

Now can we end this ridiculous thread?

Probably not. Our bench, on a per minute basis is pretty average - overall. There is still room for improvement, but I wouldn't label them as crap (at least not when full strength).

Our bench is scoring challenged, but excellent at rebounding and defense (our bench has the lowest OPP FG% in the entire league).

And that, in a nut shell defines most benches in the league - good at some things, bad at others. That's basically what it takes to be a rotation player off the bench in this league. You have to be good at something, or you won't even be in the rotation, but if you were good at most things, you'd be a starter. Some guys are instant offense off the bench (Lou Williams, Jamaal Crawford - five years ago), some are lock down defenders that can't shoot for shit.

Which is why the whole Lou Williams should have been an all star thing is bogus - total bullshit. He plays the bulk of his minutes against other teams' bench players. That means he usually doesn't have to guard the other teams' first, or second best guards. He comes in and guards their 3rd or 4th best, which means he has to expend a LOT less energy on the defensive end of the floor. This lets him focus and use all of his energy on what he does best - score. Same with Jamaal Crawford. Neither of those guys are complete players - they coast on defense so they can jack up shots on the other end. That's why they are career backups. Sure, they play enough minutes to sometimes be in the game against the other teams starters late in the game - but they're not in the game for their defense. The whole notion that Lou Williams deserved making the all star team over Dame is ludicrous. Dame does it against the best. Lou does it against the other teams' benches.

And that's the true value in this thread - it shows how much of a talent disparity there is between the typical starters and typical bench players, not just in Portland, but league wide.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

Probably not. Our bench, on a per minute basis is pretty average - overall. There is still room for improvement, but I wouldn't label them as crap (at least not when full strength).

Our bench is scoring challenged, but excellent at rebounding and defense (our bench has the lowest OPP FG% in the entire league).

And that, in a nut shell defines most benches in the league - good at some things, bad at others. That's basically what it takes to be a rotation player off the bench in this league. You have to be good at something, or you won't even be in the rotation, but if you were good at most things, you'd be a starter. Some guys are instant offense off the bench (Lou Williams, Jamaal Crawford - five years ago), some are lock down defenders that can't shoot for shit.

Which is why the whole Lou Williams should have been an all star thing is bogus - total bullshit. He plays the bulk of his minutes against other teams' bench players. That means he usually doesn't have to guard the other teams' first, or second best guards. He comes in and guards their 3rd or 4th best, which means he has to expend a LOT less energy on the defensive end of the floor. This lets him focus and use all of his energy on what he does best - score. Same with Jamaal Crawford. Neither of those guys are complete players - they coast on defense so they can jack up shots on the other end. That's why they are career backups. Sure, they play enough minutes to sometimes be in the game against the other teams starters late in the game - but they're not in the game for their defense. The whole notion that Lou Williams deserved making the all star team over Dame is ludicrous. Dame does it against the best. Lou does it against the other teams' benches.

And that's the true value in this thread - it shows how much of a talent disparity there is between the typical starters and typical bench players, not just in Portland, but league wide.

BNM

As awesome as your post is, I disagree with the first two words.

A discussion on how to improve our average bench is worthy.
A discussion on how crappy our bench is, is ridiculous....and a waste of time as noted by the fact we are NOT crap, we are average... middle of the pack. A tweak here or there and we have a top ten bench....

 

[Boob-No-More]

As awesome as your post is, I disagree with the first two words.

A discussion on how to improve our average bench is worthy.
A discussion on how crappy our bench is, is ridiculous....and a waste of time as noted by the fact we are NOT crap, we are average... middle of the pack. A tweak here or there and we have a top ten bench....

I didn't say it should, or shouldn't end the discussion. I said it probably won't. There's a difference. You've been around here long enough to know some posters will always find something to bitch about.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

I didn't say it should, or shouldn't end the discussion. I said it probably won't. There's a difference. You've been around here long enough to know some posters will always find something to bitch about.

BNM

No, you are right, I wasn't clear. I fully get where you are coming from, I just disagree. It should end the discussion. Lol.

Can you let @HCP know you just graduated me from rookie status?

Anytime someone gets the.."you have been around here long enough...", should qualify for a status change, no?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I wouldn't label them as crap (at least not when full strength).

Would you admit that lately, when Dame sits, you think to yourself "let's hope we don't hemorrhage TOO many points before Stotts has to put him back in"? Cuz I sure as hell do. It seems like we become almost comically incapable of scoring for long stretches.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Woah, our bench is worse than our starters!?!

(I can't believe I have to explain this) that is not the problem. The problem is that our bench is worse than other teams' benches.

 

[Scalma]

(I can't believe I have to explain this) that is not the problem. The problem is that our bench is worse than other teams' benches.

Thank you for explaining it to me, I understand now.

 

[Lanny]

Last ten games:

We're getting killed when the starters are out.

I'm gonna disagree. Turner, Davis, Napier and Collins aren't bad at all. Layman, yes, but not those four.

 

[BonesJones]

We need to stagger Nurks and Dames minutes q little more. I'd like Nurk to play more with the bench. The bench unit struggles mightily to get buckets inside because they don't have someone who can attack like Dame. Playing Nurkic with the bench could help that.

 

[illmatic99]

Zach Lowe named Napes as a reserve on his annual Luke Walton All Star list: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23025857/zach-lowe-2018-luke-walton-all-stars-nba

 

[tester551]

We need to stagger Nurks and Dames minutes q little more. I'd like Nurk to play more with the bench. The bench unit struggles mightily to get buckets inside because they don't have someone who can attack like Dame. Playing Nurkic with the bench could help that.

It doesn't help if no one in the second unit passes him the ball....