Our worst mistakes have come from trying to build around Dame

[oldmangrouch]

LOL...no, I'm not buying that was his point...that was just the fake cover for his point. His point was that it's a mistake to try and build around Dame...this coming after a year in which he has made about 20 threads advocating trading Dame away.

just because Olshey was a dumb fucking idiot of a GM when it came to roster construction does not mean adding vets is a bad idea

besides that, these are the potential players Portland missed out on:

16 Isaiah Stewart
17 Aleksej Pokusevski
18 Josh Green
19 Saddiq Bey
20 Precious Achiuwa
21 Tyrese Maxey
22 Zeke Nnaji
23 Leandro Bolmaro
24 R.J. Hampton
25 Immanuel Quickley
26 Payton Pritchard
27 Udoka Azubuike
28 Jaden McDaniels
29 Malachi Flynn
30 Desmond Bane
31 Tyrell Terry
32 Vernon Carey Jr.
33 Daniel Oturu
34 Théo Maledon

26 Bones Hyland
27 Cam Thomas
28 Jaden Springer
29 Day'Ron Sharpe
30 Santi Aldama
31 Isaiah Todd
32 Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
33 Jason Preston
34 Rokas Jokubaitis
35 Herbert Jones
36 Miles McBride
37 JT Thor
38 Ayo Dosunmu

how many all-stars in that list? If you guessed 0 you win. How many future all-stars on that list and when will they get there? 1 or 2 or maybe 3 in the next 7 years?

Was Covington an all-star? Was he a future all-star? What you should be asking is if any of those guys is worth more than Covington and/or will be in the future. Is the answer still 0?

Part of the problem was that Olshey was a horrible judge of talent...you are quite right there. Part of the problem, however, was the common bias that a predictably mediocre vet is preferable to a superior younger player who may be less consistent in the short term. It is the notion that limping into the play-offs and losing in the first round is somehow better than taking a step back to build a team that might actually contend.

The Collins deal was a bad talent evaluator making a deal for the right reason. The Covington, Nance, and to a lesser extent Powell deals were a bad talent judge making deals for the wrong reason.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Totally because the Pistons didn't get two championships in '89 and '90 doing that and the Warriors didn't do it three out of the last seven seasons.

Curry and GSW is a good example that it can be done.

Thomas was one cog, albeit a valuable cog, in a well balanced machine. The only place he belongs in the same sentence as Curry is in his own ego. He conned people into thinking that because his team could win against the Lakers (Magic), Celts (Bird), and Bulls (Jordan) that he as an individual deserved to be ranked on the same plane as those guys. Not.Even.Close.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Any strategy CAN work with the right pieces. Of course easier said than done. Doesn't mean you dump (a still) top 15 player in the NBA.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

LOL...no, I'm not buying that was his point...that was just the fake cover for his point.

Yes, don't believe my actual words, they can't possibly mean what they appear to mean. Count the letters - they add up to 666!

besides that, these are the potential players Portland missed out on:

You're doing my work for me!

16 Isaiah Stewart [Starter for the Pistons]
17 Aleksej Pokusevski [Interesting project - has already had a triple double]
19 Saddiq Bey [Has already scored over 50 in a game, also a starter]
20 Precious Achiuwa [looking a lot better in Toronto]
21 Tyrese Maxey [an above-average starter: if we've offered RoCo to the Sixers for him they would've turned us down]
22 Zeke Nnaji [a useful member of the Nuggets rotation]
25 Immanuel Quickley [check his stats - just got a triple double]
26 Payton Pritchard [local legend! Playing 20mpg for the NBA's hottest team]
28 Jaden McDaniels [played 25mpg this season for a better team than us]
29 Malachi Flynn [will have a long career]
30 Desmond Bane [EASILY better than Norm OR RoCo]

35 Herbert Jones [they would not trade him for Norm or RoCo]
38 Ayo Dosunmu [Starter at PG for most of the year for the Bulls]

How many future all-stars on that list and when will they get there? 1 or 2 or maybe 3 in the next 7 years?

Suppose you're right: that's 1 or 2 or 3 more than ANYBODY ON OUR ROSTER (Dame excepted - provided he recovers) AND NORM OR ROCO!

 

[wizenheimer]

Was Covington an all-star? Was he a future all-star? What you should be asking is if any of those guys is worth more than Covington and/or will be in the future. Is the answer still 0?

Part of the problem was that Olshey was a horrible judge of talent...you are quite right there. Part of the problem, however, was the common bias that a predictably mediocre vet is preferable to a superior younger player who may be less consistent in the short term. It is the notion that limping into the play-offs and losing in the first round is somehow better than taking a step back to build a team that might actually contend.

The Collins deal was a bad talent evaluator making a deal for the right reason. The Covington, Nance, and to a lesser extent Powell deals were a bad talent judge making deals for the wrong reason.

you might have me confused with somebody else. I did not like the RoCo trade or the Nance trade. I have not been advocating trading for mediocre vets either. I have said, more than once, that if Portland trades for Grant it would need to be Bledsoe going out with the Pels pick, and not the TPE. And I still wouldn't be thrilled with that trade

if that is the best Portland can do at the draft, than I'd be just fine with them keeping their powder dry, using both picks on players, then wait for deals that will be available at the trade deadline

 

[blazerkor]

Curry and GSW is a good example that it can be done.

Thomas was one cog, albeit a valuable cog, in a well balanced machine. The only place he belongs in the same sentence as Curry is in his own ego. He conned people into thinking that because his team could win against the Lakers (Magic), Celts (Bird), and Bulls (Jordan) that he as an individual deserved to be ranked on the same plane as those guys. Not.Even.Close.

I think Curry and Thomas are pretty similar in the percentage of contributions that they gave to winning rings... once KD was on the Warriors. I do think Dame has to be a valuable cog in a well balanced machine. I know we're two barely smaller cogs and a couple more small but still important cogs away from having that well balanced machine. I think we can get those pretty big cogs if we get lucky in the lotto and if the Pelicans pick conveys and can be turned into Jerami Grant. I also think we have the tools to get the couple small cogs too.

If we get lucky and land Jabari or Paolo in the draft. Also if Dame and Ant are far more complementary pieces on both ends of the floor than Dame and CJ were. Also if we can get Grant for the eleventh pick assuming it conveys. Then we would have to draft a contributor either at C or PG with our second rounder and then fill the backup role we don't fill in the draft with most of the TPMLE. Then we would be a contender. For this exercise lets just say we trade just the pick for Grant, draft Jabarie and Koloko and get Schroder with the remaining TPMLE after we sign Koloko to a three year min rookie contract that has him as a RFA after those three seasons.

Dame, Ant, Grant, Jabari, Nurk, Hart, Nas, Justise, Koloko, Shroder is a ten man rotation that is pretty damn impressive in a lot of ways. It would be the best and most complementary team that we've put around Dame. I think those pieces fit in Chauncey's system and Chauncey could be the balancing force for that machine. I know a lot has to break our way for this to happen so we can revisit the viability of building an immediate contender around Dame after the lotto but it can be done.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

From the Athletic's season preview by Hollinger:

 

[tykendo]

Patience. Cronin has said this is a multi year process. You seem to think Dame isn't all in on this plan. This year is about getting better and forming chemistry. Hopefully the youngsters surprise us all. The plan is in place. Enjoy the grind, and the excitement of the ride. Or don't. Go Blazers!!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Patience. Cronin has said this is a multi year process. You seem to think Dame isn't all in on this plan. This year is about getting better and forming chemistry. Hopefully the youngsters surprise us all. The plan is in place. Enjoy the grind, and the excitement of the ride. Or don't. Go Blazers!!

Patience is a young person's game.

 

[Cugel]

every media outlet loathes the blazers or is completely indifferent. always have and always will.

 

[tykendo]

Patience is a young person's game.

I'm 58. Tomorrow isn't a given, but i'm willing to be patient and see the process through. Getting your panties in an uproar doesn't do your heart good. It doesn't mean i don't get frustrated, and cuss out the play, or player, or game. But i get back on the horse. I choose to be a fan of my teams. There is always gonna be a certain amount of heartache involved. But i will say this. When the plan does work, and your team, after falling short, finally does get the prize, there is absolutely no better feeling as a sports fan. It's entertainment. You ,at least, have control of what you watch, or do for it.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Rasta on a roll again…..

Rock on…

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

We love Rasta.

Not so much since he doesnt post any more pics of buildings…

priorities man!

 

[Tince]

This thread title is still painful to read.

Building around Dame has never been the problem. Who we've put around Dame is the problem.

 

[Ed O]

Patience. Cronin has said this is a multi year process. You seem to think Dame isn't all in on this plan. This year is about getting better and forming chemistry. Hopefully the youngsters surprise us all. The plan is in place. Enjoy the grind, and the excitement of the ride. Or don't. Go Blazers!!

Better than what? Last year?

Who cares if Dame is "all in" if it results in a bad basketball team? I'm not a fan so Dame can be a happy man.

Hollinger is on the nose. This team is locked into being what it is for several years and we're in real trouble.

 

[tykendo]

Rasta on a roll again…..

Rock on…

Don't some call this a "Bender"

Better than what? Last year?

Who cares if Dame is "all in" if it results in a bad basketball team? I'm not a fan so Dame can be a happy man.

Hollinger is on the nose. This team is locked into being what it is for several years and we're in real trouble.

O Boy. What don't you understand about this being a multi year process? This is a new GM, trying, with the help of his staff, to do things different , with the hope of better results. So far he has accepted the challenge and made hard decisions, that Neil seemed to never want to. It may work, it may not, but at least Cronin is trying. Having your best player all in on it is important, whether you "Fan" likes it , or not. It can only aid the process.

 

[Natebishop3]

Our worst mistake was trade Meyers Leonard.

 

[inconceivable]

Patience is a young person's game.

We've been baking this cake for so many years now so I share the frustration, but some things do take time.

You can't impregnate nine women and expect a baby in one month.

Enjoy the journey!

 

[tykendo]

Our worst mistake was trade Meyers Leonard.

 

[Strenuus]

And that's dames fault?

Lol waste of a thread. Next.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

O Boy. What don't you understand about this being a multi year process?

45 years and counting...

 

[wizenheimer]

Don't some call this a "Bender"

O Boy. What don't you understand about this being a multi year process? This is a new GM, trying, with the help of his staff, to do things different , with the hope of better results. So far he has accepted the challenge and made hard decisions, that Neil seemed to never want to. It may work, it may not, but at least Cronin is trying. Having your best player all in on it is important, whether you "Fan" likes it , or not. It can only aid the process.

invariably, it seems to me, if you track the posters most pessimistic about the current Blazer direction you'll a lot of find people who, IMO, significantly overrated the value of CJ, RoCo, Nance, and Powell. As if having those four instead of Hart, Grant, Winslow & Sharpe is a better direction.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Our worst mistake was trade Meyers Leonard.

@Eastoff has a jersey for sale i think.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Patience is a young person's game.

When you hear the term "patience" applied to a player/team, that is a tip-off that they are stagnating or regressing.

 

[tykendo]

When you hear the term "patience" applied to a player/team, that is a tip-off that they are stagnating or regressing.

Totally disagree. Philly fans were asked to be patient by trusting the process. Now they're a contender, even though they've gone through the ringer with some personnel issues. Many pro franchises in all sports have had to show patience with their players development.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Totally disagree. Philly fans were asked to be patient by trusting the process. Now they're a contender, even though they've gone through the ringer with some personnel issues. Many pro franchises in all sports have had to show patience with their players development.

The key word there is "development". There is no need for patience if the kid is showing progress. If he is learning and progressing, that is just the natural order of things. Patience is for the kid who looks the same in game 82 that he did on opening night.

 

[BankTeller]

Totally disagree. Philly fans were asked to be patient by trusting the process. Now they're a contender, even though they've gone through the ringer with some personnel issues. Many pro franchises in all sports have had to show patience with their players development.

Philly was beyond exercising patience. Not only were they purposefully losing year after year, but their lotto picks weren’t even playing until a whole year later. So as a fan, you aren’t even rewarded for your tanking season until 2 years later. The only one that played the same year he was drafted was Okafor, who ended up being the worst one. That would be incredibly frustrating as a fan, and even after seeing how The Process turned out, I would still be 100% against us doing that.

OKC at least has an established star, and even he may ask out eventually, and which point they’ll be stuck in a treadmill where they have a bunch of talent but no culture setter.

You consider trading Ant over Dame for that very reason.

 

[Eastoff]

@Eastoff has a jersey for sale i think.

I doubt anyone would want to buy it!

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I doubt anyone would want to buy it!

Just need to promote the incentives.

“Ever wanted to burn a Blazer Jersey because you are tired of mediocrity? Well ive got something for ya!!!”

In 24 hours im searching that title on ebay. Better see your add. Lol!

 

[e_blazer]

From the Athletic's season preview by Hollinger:

View attachment 49848
View attachment 49849

I think that Cronin will have to make a decision before the deadline as to whether there’s a reasonable path towards contention using some of the young guys mixed with one or more of the vets to obtain an impact player. If not, then I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s a promise to Dame to trade him to a contender for a boatload of picks and switch to a rebuild around Sharpe and Simons. Dame gets to pass Clyde in the first half of the season to get the all-time Blazers scoring title, he gets to move on with the longer term deal Cronin gave him, and he gets to keep his image of loyalty to the Blazers intact.