Out on a Limb: Bold Prediction

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Denny Crane said:
It's not that hard for a guy his size to play defense. Just stand there and be tall.

That's what Thibs and PJax said about getting their bigs to play D.
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Although that seems like a highly-simplistic view for either of them, that might be a viable thought process if our perimeter defense could effectively keep opponents out of the lane and funnel them down toward the baseline like Thibs' schemes dictate. In the Blazers' defensive scheme, however, the center needs to bring a lot more than just height/length.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Although that seems like a highly-simplistic view for either of them, that might be a viable thought process if our perimeter defense could effectively keep opponents out of the lane and funnel them down toward the baseline like Thibs' schemes dictate. In the Blazers' defensive scheme, however, the center needs to bring a lot more than just height/length.
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If they're not at least standing there and being tall, they're not playing much D at all. Likely harming the defense, no matter what the perimeter guys do.
 
Denny Crane said:
If they're not at least standing there and being tall, they're not playing much D at all. Likely harming the defense, no matter what the perimeter guys do.
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Yeah, obviously. But there's a HUGE difference between saying "The big guys need to at least stand there and be tall in order to play good defense," and, "To play defense, a guy his size just needs to stand there and be tall." Playing big is just a single necessary condition, not a standard for competence.
 
Schilly said:
He is a very effective shooter around the paint, but rarely shoots there in the current offense, we can talk about that at length in a different thread if we need to.
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I don't think we need another thread for this, but I am curious as to which statistics you have seen that show he is a very effective shooter around the paint?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I don't think we need another thread for this, but I am curious as to which statistics you have seen that show he is a very effective shooter around the paint?
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http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203086/shooting/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season

Last year was his worst by far, but he was still 54% inside 8ft. A couple years ago (when he was healthy and effective), he was 65% in that range.

If he could return to his 2015 form, he'd be a very useful player.
 
I am not really worry about him on the offense end due to that he going to have some good games on that end. My biggest worry about him is the defense end due to that it not natural for him. He can guard the slower type of center head up but his problems is the rotation from his guy to another guy that may be driving to the hoop. But as long he has these mental lapses you really can't expect to much of him at the defense end. The other thing that on his mind and this is mental thing is getting hurt due to him being hurt the last two season.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Yeah, obviously. But there's a HUGE difference between saying "The big guys need to at least stand there and be tall in order to play good defense," and, "To play defense, a guy his size just needs to stand there and be tall." Playing big is just a single necessary condition, not a standard for competence.
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Standing there and being tall is exactly the defense taught by PJax (Luc Longley) and Thibs (Asik) to guys who weren't competent at defense.

That's just my observation.

If you have the big guy chasing 3pt shooters around the perimeter on switches, it's doom if the guy isn't able to do that effectively.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/203086/shooting/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular Season

Last year was his worst by far, but he was still 54% inside 8ft. A couple years ago (when he was healthy and effective), he was 65% in that range.

If he could return to his 2015 form, he'd be a very useful player.
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That's surprising for me. So, is the 54% a combination of the restricted area and the paint, because he is only 38% in the paint area outside the restricted area? And how does the 62.5% in the restricted area compare with other centers?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
That's surprising for me. So, is the 54% a combination of the restricted area and the paint, because he is only 38% in the paint area outside the restricted area? And how does the 62.5% in the restricted area compare with other centers?
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The overall paint % is actually slightly below 50 for 2017, so I imagine that also includes some shots near the elbow that are technically in the paint but outside 8 ft.

As for comparing to other centers, I don't know, but I'd wager that comparable information can be located for other centers at that link, so I'll generously leave that research for you.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The overall paint % is actually slightly below 50 for 2017, so I imagine that also includes some shots near the elbow that are technically in the paint but outside 8 ft.

As for comparing to other centers, I don't know, but I'd wager that comparable information can be located for other centers at that link, so I'll generously leave that research for you.
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How very generous and kind of you! so far, I have got that the league average for all players in the restricted area is 60.8% and Leonard' % is about the same as Cousins and David Lee,a little bit better than Monroe and quite a bit lower than Drummond and Blake Griffin. And you are saying that Leonard usually did better in previous years, so yeh he seems pretty decent in the restricted area. This is probably mostly dunks and layups. If he could get his three back; it seems he would be best served shooting only from threes and the restricted area.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
This is probably mostly dunks and layups. If he could get his three back; it seems he would be best served shooting only from threes and the restricted area.
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This is not Meyers' specific. It's pretty much the definition of modern NBA offenses - layups and 3-pointers. Stotts is a big proponent of this philosophy. His offense is designed around creating these opportunities and his defense is (supposedly) designed to protect the rim and run 3-point shooters off the line, conceding long 2-pointers to the point of actually daring opponents to shoot them.

BNM
 
JDC said:
Just curious, how long does that page take to load for you guys? Wish I could use that site, but the BRUTAL load times keep me away from it.
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A couple seconds, generally. I'm a patient man.
 
dviss1 said:
He fooled me. I thought he was a dunker in his rookie season.
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He WAS a dunker his rookie season. He had 53 dunks in 1206 minutes. That's 1.6 dunks/36.

In his first three seasons, Meyers averaged 1.3 dunks/36. In the two seasons since Kim Hughes was fired, he's averaged 0.3 dunks/36. He was over 4x as likely to dunk when we had an actual big man coach than he has been since.

So yeah, the lack of a REAL big man coach, one who has achieved proven results coaching big men at the NBA level, is my current pet peeve. We need a big man coach that will teach our BIG MEN to play like BIG MEN.

Or, Paul and Neil can continue to be stubborn and go with the guys who teach our big men to play like small forwards. The lack of a big man coach has completely ruined Meyers Leonard. Let's hope the same fate is not in store for Nurkic, Collins and Swanigan.

Meyers Leonard, as an NBA player peaked during the MEM series, right before the team fired Kim Hughes. He had been showing consistent improvement up until that point. Since then he has regressed to the point where he is useless and his contract, that would normally be considered a good value in today's NBA, is an albatross that no other team wants to take off our hands.

HIRE A FUCKING BIG MAN COACH ALREADY!

BNM
 
The great "Maybe".

He might. Or, he might not.

I hope he does. The team needs a b/u center and he's got the physical body for it. He's just got to learn how to play and not think all the time.
 
Boob-No-More said:
This is not Meyers' specific. It's pretty much the definition of modern NBA offenses - layups and 3-pointers. Stotts is a big proponent of this philosophy. His offense is designed around creating these opportunities and his defense is (supposedly) designed to protect the rim and run 3-point shooters off the line, conceding long 2-pointers to the point of actually daring opponents to shoot them.

BNM
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Well, in Meyers' case it should be a mandate, not a suggestion.
 
It's nice to dream . . . but Myers Leonard is never going to have a breakout season.
 
Positive affirmations from Schilly are always a good thing....if he's right, the Blazers benefit eh?
 
Offensively he could improve, no doubt in my mind...... if the coaches used him correctly. Coming off the bench cold and expecting him to hit 3's does not help his confidence. The guy has offensive skill other than 3 point shooting. Bring him closer to the basket. At least 15 feet of it.

Defensively I have my doubts because I don't think anyone has been helping him get better. And he needs coaching...
 
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PtldPlatypus said:
I very clearly remember my first pot smoking incident.

Prior to that day, I never knew that you could burn ramen if you let it boil dry, but that pot was burned beyond recovery.
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And you never smoked again, right? (cameras are watching....)


Yeah, on the serious, I still remember my first time. I was 5 years old....
 
The problem with Meyers, always has been and always will be, is that he has no sense/instinct or feel for the game. None. Offensively you can program a guy to go to certain spots and if you are open shoot it. Defensively this doesn't work. In transition this doesn't work. Offensively on any broken play this doesn't work. I do not think for one second ML plays basketball if he isn't 7 ft tall. He is all about his dog and wife and clothes. He can work out, look great,shoot threes in an empty gym and do great things vs an assistant coach. That's it.

I think players do not have any respect for him and coaches are almost done with him. The absolute best thing would be a miraculaous 5 game stretch of good play and then deal him. I'm sure he's a nice guy - people have told me over and over he's nice- but you have to, without question, have a chip on your shoulder, a killer instinct and a feel for the game to not just excel in this league, but to survive.
 
I think Meyers will get better if he plays better D and only scores in the paint.
 
Collins proven his mental toughness in the NCAA tournament in a key game, and proved his utility by having the second highest number of blocked shots in team history in 17mpg.

Swanigan proven his mental toughness by beating his weight problems, and proved his utility by leading his team in scoring (18ppg), and placing second in the NCAA in rebounds/game.

In 5 NBA seasons and one college season Meyers Leonard has proven his mental toughness by....changing his hair style...and proved his utility by...guarding Marc Gasol well a couple times?

These rookies have already proven themselves more than Butters in their last year of college. Between them, Nurkic and Vonleh, we have a whole coat rack of young bigs to hang our hopes and dreams on. Why on earth would anybody waste their Kool Aid on Meyers Leonard at this point?
 
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mook said:
These rookies have already proven themselves more than Butters in their last year of college. Between them, Nurkic and Vonleh, we have a whole coat rack of young bigs to hang our hopes and dreams on. Why on earth would anybody waste their Kool Aid on Meyers Leonard at this point?
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Because despite all his obvious failings, Meyers still has a combination of height, weight, and range unmatched by anyone on the squad. He's taller than Noah/Caleb, thicker/stronger than Zach, and has more outside game than Nurkic. IF (and I understand it's unlikely) he gets his mind right, he offers a physicality/skillset combo that nobody else can bring.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Because despite all his obvious failings, Meyers still has a combination of height, weight, and range unmatched by anyone on the squad. He's taller than Noah/Caleb, thicker/stronger than Zach, and has more outside game than Nurkic. IF (and I understand it's unlikely) he gets his mind right, he offers a physicality/skillset combo that nobody else can bring.
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I think he's the current dean 0f The Darko Milicic School For Big People Who Can't Basketball Good and Want to Do Other Stuff Good Too.

I totally get why people still dream about him. For 4 years in a row I predicted that this time Meyers Leonard was going to break out. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 4 goddamned times, and really, we're getting into Vitas Gerulaitis territory:

Having lost 16 times in a row to Jimmy Connors, Vitas Gerulaitis finally triumphed and offered his reason as to why he didn't lose:

"Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row."
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In other news, I am absolutely convinced Zach Collins is going to Batum his way into the starting lineup this fall.
 
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