Paddling up Schmitz Creek

[Phatguysrule]

I'm kind of like Paul Allen. Not that I'm rich, or dead, because I am very much poor and alive. But, I am like PA, because I love the draft. No way I want to trade a lotto pick.

I honestly believe we could have gotten Randle and #11 for our #7 last year.

I want to win. I wanted to be a home court team this season, and I think Dame, Hart, Grant, Randle, and Nurk, with Ant and our bench is an HCA team.

But I freaking love Sharpe.

 

[Natebishop3]

Prime case: trading down from #2 to get Martell Webster. Picks 2 and 3? Deron Williams and Chris Fucking Paul. But we "didn't need a point guard" because we had Sebastian Fucking Telfair.

I agree with the sentiment but there’s a slight difference that we don’t need a point guard because we have Damian Fucking Lillard.

 

[HansenYang]

Just had a discussion last night around Scoot vs Wemby, Miller, Thompson Twins, Jarace, etc. He thought Dame would be on board with anyone except for Scoot just from the standpoint that all the others have height and aren't a duplication of what they already had.....and could actually help. Scoot on the other hand, is very similar to Dame and would basically be his replacement at some point. Henderson certainly wouldn't be able to help out now as much as the others just for the simple fact he would play Dame's position, so wouldn't get as many opportunities even though he might be the most talented except for Wemby.

I'm assuming that you were talking to D69 here.

Outside of Wemby - who is his preferred draft target of the top 7? Does he have any strong feelings about the Knicks pick at #23?

 

[wizenheimer]

I never pay that much attention to draft prospects. So I rarely know about any of them. Obviously I know about Wemby, but that's about it. So I'm wondering about the other guys who might be in the top 7 or 8:





as I said, I don't think I've seen any of them

from the on-paper evaluations, I'm intrigued by the Thompson twins. And Jarace Walker is intersting, especially if you think about a pairing up front with Grant. And as a PF, concerns about his shooting efficiency are less. The other prospects, including Scoot, all seem to have issues with shooting

and when workouts and the combine start we know there will be a riser, or two, and a sinker, or two. Any guesses on who?

 

[MickZagger]

If the Blazers are awarded the 2nd pick, the obvious selection is Scoot Henderson. Then what do you do?
I think he could be the leading scorer for an NBA team. But not for the Trail Blazers.

You get assets for Lillard, Simons and Nurkic and build around Scoot and Sharpe.

 

[TBpup]

I'm assuming that you were talking to D69 here.

Outside of Wemby - who is his preferred draft target of the top 7? Does he have any strong feelings about the Knicks pick at #23?

@CJ_is_Gone ...it depends on the pick #, but he likes Jarace Walker and has been high on Taylor Hendricks for a long time back when he was a late 1st round projection. He has risen a ton and in the above Mock that @wizenheimer posted, is all the way up to #7. At #23, depending on whom we get with the 1st pick, he wants size, so either Lively or Bona, though both have some significant flaws.

 

[wizenheimer]

You get assets for Lillard, Simons and Nurkic and build around Scoot and Sharpe.

while I don't agree with trading Dame, I'm glad to see you say trade Simons if they trade Dame. There's no reason to try and build around Simons after a Dame trade. In fact it would be stupid, IMO

 

[THE HCP]

I bet Dame hopes you don't use that pick..... oh wait, I said that last season to.

 

[glazeduck]

while I don't agree with trading Dame, I'm glad to see you say trade Simons if they trade Dame. There's no reason to try and build around Simons after a Dame trade. In fact it would be stupid, IMO

Asking because I don't know... Simons has been bad on D, I don't think that's debatable, but he's also been playing largely out of position on D. Are there splits of his advanced defensive metrics when playing next to Dame vs. not? I ask because he has the size and length to be effective enough guarding other PGs, that I do wonder what he could be without Dame...

 

[MickZagger]

while I don't agree with trading Dame, I'm glad to see you say trade Simons if they trade Dame. There's no reason to try and build around Simons after a Dame trade. In fact it would be stupid, IMO

Not if you get a talent like Scoot Henderson

 

[Tince]

If we get the 2nd or 3rd pick I'd entertain offers IF and I stress IF they were overwhelming, if not then keep it

That's fair!

As long as both avenues are well vetted, I'm ok with choosing the better option of either outcome.

 

[wizenheimer]

Asking because I don't know... Simons has been bad on D, I don't think that's debatable, but he's also been playing largely out of position on D. Are there splits of his advanced defensive metrics when playing next to Dame vs. not? I ask because he has the size and length to be effective enough guarding other PGs, that I do wonder what he could be without Dame...

he's bad at defense...period. He's not going to be better guarding Ja Morant then he is guarding Desmond Bane. He won't be better guarding Jamal Murray than he is at guarding Kantavius Caldwell-Pope; or guarding Curry rather than Klay

Simons has decent handles but when he's using them he tends to channel MeJ. He's good at perimeter shooting, especially catch-&-shoot. He's not good at running the team or facilitating offense. At this point, he's a little better than a one-trick pony, but he needs to be a lot better

yeah, he's 23 and will improve. I just don't think he'll ever improve enough on defense to not be a sieve.

 

[wizenheimer]

Not if you get a talent like Scoot Henderson

huh?

 

[Pinwheel1]

And Jarace Walker is intersting, especially if you think about a pairing up front with Grant. And as a PF, concerns about his shooting efficiency are less. The other prospects, including Scoot, all seem to have issues with shooting

"A big forward, with broad shoulders, brute strength who rebounds well and can defend all over the court. A high-level passer
who can create for other........"

Is this analysis correct........ because it describes exactly the type of player that we lack. (well at least one of our needs)
I am skeptical but also intrigued.

 

[TBpup]

Just talked to D69 and he also likes James Nnaji at #23, although thinks that might be a little early. He was a late 2nd rounder earlier in the season. Some comparisons to Duren.

 

[Tince]

Just talked to D69 and he also likes James Nnaji at #23, although thinks that might be a little early. He was a late 2nd rounder earlier in the season. Some comparisons to Duren.

Hard for me to imagine us having the 23rd pick come draft day.

 

[glazeduck]

he's bad at defense...period. He's not going to be better guarding Ja Morant then he is guarding Desmond Bane. He won't be better guarding Jamal Murray than he is at guarding Kantavius Caldwell-Pope; or guarding Curry rather than Klay

Simons has decent handles but when he's using them he tends to channel MeJ. He's good at perimeter shooting, especially catch-&-shoot. He's not good at running the team or facilitating offense. At this point, he's a little better than a one-trick pony, but he needs to be a lot better

yeah, he's 23 and will improve. I just don't think he'll ever improve enough on defense to not be a sieve.

If you're trading Dame, you're not putting out a competitor right away, full stop. So the extremes of what Ant is or isn't is less important than his relative value.

If you're trading Dame and that puts Ant in position to improve his value, there's absolutely nothing forcing you to trade him immediately -- that's why I'm asking. Let him be the PG for a year and improve his value -- IF YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN (which, again, is something I don't know whether or not the stats support).

 

[wizenheimer]

If you're trading Dame, you're not putting out a competitor right away, full stop. So the extremes of what Ant is or isn't is less important than his relative value.

If you're trading Dame and that puts Ant in position to improve his value, there's absolutely nothing forcing you to trade him immediately -- that's why I'm asking. Let him be the PG for a year and improve his value -- IF YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT WOULD HAPPEN (which, again, is something I don't know whether or not the stats support).

I'm operating on an assumption. That being that if Portland trades Dame they will NOT get any immediate lottery picks in the trade. Very well might be shitty draft picks for the next 3 years. The teams that would be interested in Dame won't have any great picks

so the only way that the Blazers can possibly land an elite talent is by having 2 or 3 years of top-5ish draft picks. Ant has flaws but he can get hot and win some games for Portland. That's why he's sitting right now and sat at the end of last season. Keeping a player like Ant after trading Dame torpedoes Portland's best shot at landing an elite talent....and Ant is not worth that in my view

 

[damianlillard]

"A big forward, with broad shoulders, brute strength who rebounds well and can defend all over the court. A high-level passer
who can create for other........"

Is this analysis correct........ because it describes exactly the type of player that we lack. (well at least one of our needs)
I am skeptical but also intrigued.

That analysis is correct. If you look at his high school highlights, he was an amazing passer. He was always throwing outlet passes like Kevin love would do. Defensively he’s pretty good. He can guard 2-5 for sure, potentially 1. He’s a good rebounder, but if he was more consistent he would be a great rebounder. Only concern with him is shooting. I think he will figure that out. His base and form is consistent enough where he just need more reps

 

[Natebishop3]

If you get #2, you take Scoot and trade Simons.

Let Scott be the backup for a few years.

 

[MickZagger]

huh?

Would be dumb to keep Simons if we land a talent like Henderson. I’ve seen enough to realize Henderson is a dynamic guard and playing Simons out of position again would be dumb

 

[Natebishop3]

Would be dumb to keep Simons if we land a talent like Henderson. I’ve seen enough to realize Henderson is a dynamic guard and playing Simons out of position again would be dumb

Ideally for the future, I'd love to put an absolute bulldog on defense at point guard to pair with Sharpe. I just hate trying to roll again with potentially our best player being a point guard.

 

[Pinwheel1]

That analysis is correct. If you look at his high school highlights, he was an amazing passer. He was always throwing outlet passes like Kevin love would do. Defensively he’s pretty good. He can guard 2-5 for sure, potentially 1. He’s a good rebounder, but if he was more consistent he would be a great rebounder. Only concern with him is shooting. I think he will figure that out. His base and form is consistent enough where he just need more reps

I do like his runner/floater

 

[wizenheimer]

Would be dumb to keep Simons if we land a talent like Henderson. I’ve seen enough to realize Henderson is a dynamic guard and playing Simons out of position again would be dumb

ok...I wasn't sure what you were saying

 

[KingSpeed]

Prime case: trading down from #2 to get Martell Webster. Picks 2 and 3? Deron Williams and Chris Fucking Paul. But we "didn't need a point guard" because we had Sebastian Fucking Telfair.

2005 Draft:

1. Bogut
2. Marvin Williams
3. Deron Williams
4. Chris Paul
5. Raymond Felton
6. Martell Webster

Trade Partner: Jazz

Acquired: 6th pick (Martell Webster) and 27thpick (Linas Kleiza), 2006 first round pick (Joel Freeland)

Sent out: 3rd pick (Deron Williams)

 

[HansenYang]

Just talked to D69 and he also likes James Nnaji at #23, although thinks that might be a little early. He was a late 2nd rounder earlier in the season. Some comparisons to Duren.

I'll have to check him out a bit.
I'm really liking what I see from Leonard Miller. Out of all the late 1st rounders that I have looked at, he would be my pick at #23.

 

[AngryFan]

I want Scoot and I don't want to trade him. Him and Shaedon would be insanely fun to watch. They would be posterizing everyone.

 

[Ed O]

If Scoot is truly in a higher tier than those below him then passing on him has disaster written all over it. The draft is a crap shoot as it is, but the chances of a miss are increased the lower you pick. I didn't like it when we passed on Chris Paul /Deron Williams and I don't really want to repeat it. If no one offers a difference maker in a trade, then keep the pick and make a trade later.

Trading away from Chris Paul still crushes my heart. He's a dirty player and whatever, but he was SO CLEARLY one of the top PG prospects in years.

But... no. We had Telfair, Steve Blake, and Juan Dixon in the back court. Who needs a future HOFer?

PatterNash was truly the low point of this franchise ever, IMO.

 

[TBpup]

Hard for me to imagine us having the 23rd pick come draft day.

I doubt they use it either. He was just talking about available players he likes at that slot.

 

[tykendo]

or perhaps someone wants Scoot "really" bad and you leverage that and get an overpay

Yes, potentially the Brooklyn Nets would want a splashy player to get their fanbase excited. The Blazers could potentially get Mikal Bridges and a 1st for , for the 2nd pick , & Ant . Winner on both sides. The Blazers get one of the Best 2 way players who's ascending since the trade with Phoenix, and a 1st rounder . Brooklyn gets their backcourt of today , and tomorrow in Scoot & Ant. I wanted to include Curry or Harris in the deal, to get the dead eye shooter we need, , but Curry is a UFA, and Harris has 1 year on deal left. Reddish's 17 mil, would have perfectly worked but he's a UFA as well. But getting pick 2 gives the Blazers a potential huge win as well.