Palin or Fey

[DennisRodman]

Yes, that seems obvious unless you believe individuals in small population states are worth more than individuals in big population states.

I'm curious then, if extend such thinking from a state level to a national level, would you consider India and China more valuable nations than United States?

 

[Stepping Razor]

So a state with more people has more value than a state with less people?

In terms of how complex it is to govern, hell yes.

Wasilla, Alaska has a population of something between 5,000 and 10,000. Fewer people voted in the election that took Palin into office than vote in most high school student body elections.

The state of Alaska has a population of about 670,000. That's far less than the city I live in (San Francisco). Palin has her attributes -- I actually like her persona a lot, though I find her politics and her penchant for using power to settle petty scores to be deplorable -- but her "experience" in Wasilla and Anchorage isn't high among them. Republicans should just concede the point and move on instead of engaging in this ridiculous resume-padding, pretending like being the mayor of Wasilla counts for anything. It doesn't.

SR

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Yes, that seems obvious unless you believe individuals in small population states are worth more than individuals in big population states.

1000 people are more important than 1 person, so long as the 1 person isn't having his/her basic rights violated.

So you believe that this makes them inherently more qualified, if they govern a large state versus a small state, to be the Vice President or President of the United States?

Say...the Governor of California is more qualified than every other Governor to be VP or President of the United States?

I mean, that is what your train of thought is implying.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

In terms of how complex it is to govern, hell yes.

Wasilla, Alaska has a population of something between 5,000 and 10,000. Fewer people voted in the election that took Palin into office than vote in most high school student body elections.

The state of Alaska has a population of about 670,000. That's far less than the city I live in (San Francisco). Palin has her attributes -- I actually like her persona a lot, though I find her politics and her penchant for using power to settle petty scores to be deplorable -- but her "experience" in Wasilla and Anchorage isn't high among them. Republicans should just concede the point and move on instead of engaging in this ridiculous resume-padding, pretending like being the mayor of Wasilla counts for anything. It doesn't.

SR

But this thread is about how Tina Fey, a hollywood comedic actress is more qualified than the Governor of a State. So you believe that Tina Fey's experience dealing with television producers and actors is more valuable than governing a small town and governing a State of the United States?

And I don't know what high schools have 5,000-10,000 students. That sounds crazy!

 

[Minstrel]

So you believe that this makes them inherently more qualified, if they govern a large state versus a small state, to be the Vice President or President of the United States?

Say...the Governor of California is more qualified than every other Governor to be VP or President of the United States?

I mean, that is what your train of thought is implying.

That's not what it implies. I simply spoke to how I value states. I also value basketball teams by on-court success, but that doesn't necessarily mean I rank GMs by winning percentage.

I think the concept of a "state" is quite an arbitrary structure, and people are the key thing. The word "state" doesn't create a certain value. The people who are affected are what creates an importance. If, hypothetically, a state had 0 people, what would be the point of attaching "value" to it, from a governance standpoint?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

That's not what it implies. I simply spoke to how I value states. I also value basketball teams by on-court success, but that doesn't necessarily mean I rank GMs by winning percentage.

I think the concept of a "state" is quite an arbitrary structure, and people are the key thing. The word "state" doesn't create a certain value. The people who are affected are what creates an importance. If, hypothetically, a state had 0 people, what would be the point of attaching "value" to it, from a governance standpoint?

I'm taking it here in the context that was posted earlier which seemed to imply that Governing Alaska was less important of an experience in government, almost to the point of ridicule. I presume its based on its population and/or relative lack of news events that seem to come from there, being geographically isolated from the contiguous states.

The general "vibe" that comes from the leftist side of things is that Palin's experience in Alasaka basically amounts to nothing, given what Alaska's "value" as a state is perceived to be.

 

[DennisRodman]

Well anyway, to answer Xericx's question of who is more or less qualified.

Well to be honest. Palin isn't very experienced, especially with respect to being VP. Tina Fey is clearly less experienced, and not qualified for VP.

The same issue could be brought up with Obama and on qualification for President.

 

[Stepping Razor]

But this thread is about how Tina Fey, a hollywood comedic actress is more qualified than the Governor of a State. So you believe that Tina Fey's experience dealing with television producers and actors is more valuable than governing a small town and governing a State of the United States?

And I don't know what high schools have 5,000-10,000 students. That sounds crazy!

Sorry, I just jumped into the thread. I am agnostic on Fey vs Palin. I would never, ever vote for either of them, for anything. I do find both to be hilarious, however.

Wasilla is (marginally) bigger than most high schools, obviously, but high school elections have higher turnout rates than did Wasilla local elections, apparently. Palin got exactly 617 votes in the 1996 election that made her mayor of Wasilla. Six hundred seventeen votes. The student body president at Grant HS in Northeast Portland, where I went to school, absolutely gets more votes than that.

Again, Republicans would be better off if they just admitted her resume is slim but that her other attributes offset that, instead of making ridiculous arguments that her domination of small-town politics (she crushed her opponent by 200 votes!) is great training for the presidency.

SR

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Sorry, I just jumped into the thread. I am agnostic on Fey vs Palin. I would never, ever vote for either of them, for anything. I do find both to be hilarious, however.

Wasilla is (marginally) bigger than most high schools, obviously, but high school elections have higher turnout rates than did Wasilla local elections, apparently. Palin got exactly 617 votes in the 1996 election that made her mayor of Wasilla. Six hundred seventeen votes. The student body president at Grant HS in Northeast Portland, where I went to school, absolutely gets more votes than that.

Again, Republicans would be better off if they just admitted her resume is slim but that her other attributes offset that, instead of making ridiculous arguments that her domination of small-town politics (she crushed her opponent by 200 votes!) is great training for the presidency.

SR

So would you agree with the sentiment that being the mayor of a small town is a worthless job, not worthy of any commendation?

What about Governor?

 

[huevonkiller]

Sorry, I just jumped into the thread. I am agnostic on Fey vs Palin. I would never, ever vote for either of them, for anything. I do find both to be hilarious, however.

Wasilla is (marginally) bigger than most high schools, obviously, but high school elections have higher turnout rates than did Wasilla local elections, apparently. Palin got exactly 617 votes in the 1996 election that made her mayor of Wasilla. Six hundred seventeen votes. The student body president at Grant HS in Northeast Portland, where I went to school, absolutely gets more votes than that.

Again, Republicans would be better off if they just admitted her resume is slim but that her other attributes offset that, instead of making ridiculous arguments that her domination of small-town politics (she crushed her opponent by 200 votes!) is great training for the presidency.

SR

Lol, that was informative and entertaining.

 

[mook]

We can't decide these important affairs of state without pics o' the hotness:

The winner? Clearly:

But we all know McCain's choice:

"Heh, heh, hey there Vietnam Dude, a little easy on the backside. I kin smell yer hemorrhoid cream and it's kind a creepin' me out. Heh."

 

[Minstrel]

I'm taking it here in the context that was posted earlier which seemed to imply that Governing Alaska was less important of an experience in government

Governing fewer people is less important than governing more people. The greater the numbers, the more complex the logistics and often the more diverse the interests.

That doesn't mean that any bigger state governor is more qualified than any smaller state governor. Length of experience and competence also matter. Governing fewer people well can be worth more than governing more people poorly.

The general "vibe" that comes from the leftist side of things is that Palin's experience in Alasaka basically amounts to nothing, given what Alaska's "value" as a state is perceived to be.

She combines short experience with small populations governed. Ultimately, any managerial experience can be cited; anti-Obama types seem amused by his citing the amount of people in his campaign that he's managed (which is actually greater than the number of people Palin governed in Wasilla)...would you devalue that, or consider it "executive experience"? If not, why not? Because the people aren't called a "city" or "state"?

As for her competence in governance, that's pretty subjective. But experience combined with size of her constituency is pretty lack-luster. And she has nothing in the way of experience with diplomacy. So, she may or may not do a good job as VP or President, but what evidence is there right now that she would?

 

[Stepping Razor]

So would you agree with the sentiment that being the mayor of a small town is a worthless job, not worthy of any commendation?

What about Governor?

Not worthless, I just don't think it's comparable in any way to being president or vice president.

In fairness, I'm not sure there's anything comparable to being president or vice president. Probably nobody is truly prepared for that job until they start doing it. I personally think that "experience" is sort of overrated as a presidential campaign attribute anyway. (If "experience" is so important, let's just roll out Robert Byrd! Or the corpse of Strom Thurmond!) That said, some kinds of preparation are probably more relevant than others. Palin's (brief) experience as the governor of an extremely small state counts (to me) for much more than her experience as the mayor of a tiny town. But someone who has been the governor of a large state (or maybe even mayor of a large city) with a more complex social, political, and economic structure, and more complex problems to deal with, would have "better" experience in my book.

Being governor of Alaska for almost two years isn't worthless, but it is the least distinguished resume for a vice presidential candidate in more than 100 years.

SR

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Governing fewer people is less important than governing more people. The greater the numbers, the more complex the logistics and often the more diverse the interests.

That doesn't mean that any bigger state governor is more qualified than any smaller state governor. Length of experience and competence also matter. Governing fewer people better can be worth more than governing more people poorly.

What is your view on Approval rating? Is that an indicator on how well one governs?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

She combines short experience with small populations governed. Ultimately, any managerial experience can be cited; anti-Obama types seem amused by his citing the amount of people in his campaign that he's managed (which is actually greater than the number of people Palin governed in Wasilla)...would you devalue that, or consider it "executive experience"? If not, why not? Because the people aren't called a "city" or "state"?

As for her competence in governance, that's pretty subjective. But experience combined with size of her constituency is pretty lack-luster. And she has nothing in the way of experience with diplomacy. So, she may or may not do a good job as VP or President, but what evidence is there right now that she would?

What is the evidence that anyone would?

 

[Denny Crane]

In terms of how complex it is to govern, hell yes.

Wasilla, Alaska has a population of something between 5,000 and 10,000. Fewer people voted in the election that took Palin into office than vote in most high school student body elections.

The state of Alaska has a population of about 670,000. That's far less than the city I live in (San Francisco). Palin has her attributes -- I actually like her persona a lot, though I find her politics and her penchant for using power to settle petty scores to be deplorable -- but her "experience" in Wasilla and Anchorage isn't high among them. Republicans should just concede the point and move on instead of engaging in this ridiculous resume-padding, pretending like being the mayor of Wasilla counts for anything. It doesn't.

SR

FWIW, Arkansas has a population of 2.8M, smaller than many cities in the nation.



EDIT: cities == metropolitan areas, 18 larger to be exact.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Being governor of Alaska for almost two years isn't worthless, but it is the least distinguished resume for a vice presidential candidate in more than 100 years.

SR

I believe the same was stated about Barack Obama.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

FWIW, Arkansas has a population of 2.8M, smaller than many cities in the nation.

And still 4X the size of Alaska.

But my beef with Plain is not her experience, it's what she stands for. She is hard core conservative who, in my book, would consider banning books, extreme when it comes to pro-life (any circumstance unless mother's life in danger), vindictive, not a reformer but just another politican, not extremely bright, possible religious fanatic and one posters will rip on me but she comes across as fake to me.

 

[Stepping Razor]

FWIW, Arkansas has a population of 2.8M, smaller than many cities in the nation.

If by "many" you mean two, New York and LA. Maybe three; I'm not sure if Chicago is slightly bigger than Arkansas or vice versa.

But yeah, I would argue that if we're judging candidates on the basis of "experience," Clinton was pretty poor as well. Obama, too. Again, I think it's a very overrated criterion for judging who will be a good president. I don't oppose Palin because I think she's "inexperienced," I oppose her because I think she's wrong about everything.

SR

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

And still 4X the size of Alaska.

But my beef with Plain is not her experience, it's what she stands for. She is hard core conservative who, in my book, would consider banning books, extreme when it comes to pro-life (any circumstance unless mother's life in danger), vindictive, not a reformer but just another politican, not extremely bright, possible religious fanatic and one posters will rip on me but she comes across as fake to me.

How can she be "another politician" if she has no experience in politics, as many people claim?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

How can she be "another politician" if she has no experience in politics, as many people claim?

I'm not saying no experience, obviously some.

But her and Obama are not saviors, just politicans selling their shtick.

 

[Stepping Razor]

I believe the same was stated about Barack Obama.

Yeah, again, for the 18th time, I don't think "experience" is a good measure of who will make a good president or VP. It's clearly not one of Obama's stronger suits, or Palin's. If "experience" is what matters, vote McCain, absolutely.

I think if you look at past presidents, there is little or no correlation between "experience" and success in office. Lincoln had virtually no "experience," Hoover and Nixon had tons. Who was more successful?

That's the case I wish Republicans would make for Palin. Instead we get these frankly embarrassing arguments that "she has more executive experience than the other candidates combined." Well, so does my student body president. Whoop-de-damn-doo.

SR

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Yeah, again, for the 18th time, I don't think "experience" is a good measure of who will make a good president or VP. It's clearly not one of Obama's stronger suits, or Palin's. If "experience" is what matters, vote McCain, absolutely.

I think if you look at past presidents, there is little or no correlation between "experience" and success in office. Lincoln had virtually no "experience," Hoover and Nixon had tons. Who was more successful?

That's the case I wish Republicans would make for Palin. Instead we get these frankly embarrassing arguments that "she has more executive experience than the other candidates combined." Well, so does my student body president. Whoop-de-damn-doo.

SR

Well, the whole basis of this thread is the lack of experience of Palin, hence my bringing it up. I don't think its a necessity...but for the VP slot, its always been a choice of filling out a demographic versus actual qualifications.

 

[Stepping Razor]

Well, the whole basis of this thread is the lack of experience of Palin, hence my bringing it up. I don't think its a necessity...but for the VP slot, its always been a choice of filling out a demographic versus actual qualifications.

Yeah, I'm sort of arguing on two planes here.

1. Palin has little meaningful experience. To the extent that someone wants to claim that she does have it, I vehemently disagree.

2. "Experience" shouldn't be even close to the most important criterion in deciding who to vote for.

SR

 

[MARIS61]

For Xericx:

Make no mistake, McCain is nearly dead. His VP would become President this term almost certainly.

Palin is a liar. A pathological liar. It has been proven that she lied about herself at the convention, and in nearly every appearance she has made since being put on display.

Palin cannot answer simple questions most 8th graders can about other countries, or even our own. She comes off as mentally-challenged, unaware of her surroundings, and unable to develop a train of original thought. She doesn't even know her own party's positions.

Palin is a nasty bitch. She would embarass our country and destroy what few alliances we still have around the world.

Palin is in Big Oil's pocket, and will eventually go down in flames with Ted Stevens, and hopefully serve serious prison time.


Tina Fey well-liked by most people, is adept at dealing with reporters, would never be stumped for an answer, is productive and creative on a genius level, and hangs with a far more powerful group of people than Palin had even met before last month.

She has built a highly-successful business empire, one far more complex and effective than the State Government of Alaska, amassing numerous awards in her craft along the way.

She comes off as honest and frank, and you know her words are her own.

Seriously, I think she could hold her own in meetings with world leaders. I cringe at the thought of Palin being manipulated and abused and embarassing our country. I fear we would end up in a nuclear war in a very short time.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

I generally fall in the camp of vote for the candidate who's politics you agree with more. Yeah, I know, shocking....but yeah. That's not what's happening for the most part.

 

[Stepping Razor]

I generally fall in the camp of vote for the candidate who's politics you agree with more. Yeah, I know, shocking....but yeah. That's not what's happening for the most part.

Really? I think that's exactly what's happening.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

For Xericx:
Make no mistake, McCain is nearly dead. His VP would become President this term almost certainly.

Palin is a liar. A pathological liar. It has been proven that she lied about herself at the convention, and in nearly every appearance she has made since being put on display.

Palin cannot answer simple questions most 8th graders can about other countries, or even our own. She comes off as mentally-challenged, unaware of her surroundings, and unable to develop a train of original thought. She doesn't even know her own party's positions.

Palin is a nasty bitch. She would embarass our country and destroy what few alliances we still have around the world.

Palin is in Big Oil's pocket, and will eventually go down in flames with Ted Stevens, and hopefully serve serious prison time.


Tina Fey well-liked by most people, is adept at dealing with reporters, would never be stumped for an answer, is productive and creative on a genius level, and hangs with a far more powerful group of people than Palin had even met before last month.

She has built a highly-successful business empire, one far more complex and effective than the State Government of Alaska, amassing numerous awards in her craft along the way.

She comes off as honest and frank, and you know her words are her own.

Seriously, I think she could hold her own in meetings with world leaders. I cringe at the thought of Palin being manipulated and abused and embarassing our country. I fear we would end up in a nuclear war in a very short time.

McCain is nearly dead? While I don't disagree that he's too old to run. However, even someone as iconic as obama is certainly going to be the targets of fringe-type of groups. Even Clinton alluded to this in the Democratic primaries in an attempt to scare people away (don't think she didn't, the Clintons are very shady).

As for the rest of your points,

Biden also has a strange sense of history:

“When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the princes of greed,” Biden told Couric. “He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’”

How ignorant is this statement? Let me count the ways:

1. Franklin Roosevelt didn’t become president in 1929 during the crash. He won the 1932 election and took office in 1933, largely because of the 1929 crash and the incompetent protectionist policies that transformed it into a Great Depression.
2. If FDR and President Herbert Hoover didn’t talk about the “princes of greed” in 1929, by the time FDR took over, that kind of populist rhetoric had certainly taken root. FDR greatly escalated the scope of federal government to institute the kind of redistributionism that Obama and Biden now champion.
3. If Hoover or FDR appeared on television in 1929 or even 1933, only a few hundred people would have seen it. Television was still an experimental medium and wouldn’t be introduced to the public for at least another decade.

He asked a man in a wheelchair to stand-up. I mean, you're recognizing someone, the least you can do is remember that he's handicapped.

How is Palin in "Big Oil's Pocket"?

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Really? I think that's exactly what's happening.

no, all smoke and mirrors. fear tactics on both sides, little debate on the actual pertinent issues.

 

[AgentDrazenPetrovic]

Tina Fey well-liked by most people, is adept at dealing with reporters, would never be stumped for an answer, is productive and creative on a genius level, and hangs with a far more powerful group of people than Palin had even met before last month.

She has built a highly-successful business empire, one far more complex and effective than the State Government of Alaska, amassing numerous awards in her craft along the way.

She comes off as honest and frank, and you know her words are her own.

Seriously, I think she could hold her own in meetings with world leaders. I cringe at the thought of Palin being manipulated and abused and embarassing our country. I fear we would end up in a nuclear war in a very short time.

I believe that Palin has one of the highest approval ratings of any current governor. I think that this would satisfy your points about Fey being well-liked. I'm not even sure what demographic you are covering by saying "most people". By this, do you mean people who watch Saturday night live and watch comedic movies?

I'm not sure what Fey's business interests are...maybe you can divulge them? I mean what business interest has she built that is more important than a State of the Union?